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Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/26/2008 9:02 AM

There is a conflict in our manufacturing plant that needs resolved. Without being able to quantify the effect it is hard to make a case either way.

We are in Ohio, USA, and have several firetube boilers supplying steam for a steam chest molding operation. The boiler room is attached to the manufacturing floor so that it breathes the same air. The nature of the steam chest molding puts a lot of humidity in the air so the production personnel have every possible exhaust fan turned on and running most of the time, even in the winter when all of the overhead doors are down. This pulls an enormous negative on the building. When someone enters the front office lobby the suspended ceiling tiles will bounce and we evaporate water out of a few selected plumbing traps. This makes a nice stink. We know we should provide heated makeup air to balance the exhaust, but trying to convince management is a challenge. If we can show a benefit to the bottom line we might get something "positive" done.

What we need is a way to quantify the effect of having a negative like this. It can't be helpful pulling against the boiler burners. Also, the plant space heaters are ten years old and are gravity draft so we suppose we are pulling CO into the building. I have looked all over the internet at all the major boiler maker's sites, at the eere best practice sites, etc., but haven't found any sites that address the issue of the economics of pulling against a boiler burner.

If anyone can cite a reference or give some guidance here it would be greatly appreciated.

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#1

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/26/2008 10:45 AM

Your boilers should have barometric draft controls, so as long as you have good negative flue pressure to begin with you should be OK.

Does anyone in your plant write confined space entry permits? If so, they will have a meter that reads out CO levels. Just to be on the safe side.

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#2

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/26/2008 11:20 AM

Can the plumbing traps be increased in height? Nice, cheap, easy solution to the stink problem. Can the room containing the traps be isolated from the room containing the steam chest mo(u)lding?

Now, what can be done to deal with the humidity problem at source? Can the wet air be ducted out of the building, instead of through it? Is there a leak that wants stopping? Is there an insulation problem that wants fixing?

Measure the CO levels. Get some data, instead of supposing it.

If all else fails, then is the time to invest in ventilation equipment.

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#3

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/26/2008 11:22 AM

Ohio Referenced standards.

If the air stinks, you may want to have the air quality checked

http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dapc/

Any fire department will be able to check for CO

here are some consulting services

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#4

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/26/2008 7:10 PM

I spent 2 years battling and eventually defeating negative air pressure in a food manufacturing facility with a MAJOR condensate issue. USDA said fix it or shut down. I had to educate each level of management all the way up to the corporate level to get anything approved.

All areas / zones in a facility need to be positive UNLESS you are in a lab that require negative pressure. Some zones need to be more positive relative to other zones. This effects may, many things. The easiest thing is to ensure all exhaust fans are interlocked to an input of greater value. ..................................................X CFM out -vs - more CFM in ..........you win

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#12
In reply to #4

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/27/2008 2:54 PM

GENERALLY, most area in a plant should be positive.

HOWEVER, if dealing with flammables, noxious, or dangerous fumes, certain areas must be negative to better control IAQ (Indoor Air Quality).

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#5

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/27/2008 7:14 AM

Can you supply the boilers with outside air? The cost to supply make up air will be tremendous, not only in initial cost but also in heating costs down the road.

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#6

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/27/2008 8:38 AM

There are a few inexpensive ways to cut down on the humidity and negative pressure:

1 - provide a separate duct to each boiler combustion air inlet at the burner. Typically, round ductwork can be run inexpensively from the outside to each burner. The cfm will need to be determined and ductwork sized accordingly.

2 - install exhaust hoods over the area that produces the largest amount of steam to capture it at the source. The new hoods should have a fresh air inlet that travels to the pick-up area of the exhaust. In other words, rather than taking building air and exhausting it, you will introduce outside air into the exhaust inlet, where very little outside air will mix with inside air. This will keep the heat demand down in the winter, and will reduce the demand for make-up air from the building

3 - If you have a high source of heat,sometimes a recuperative unit will be the answer. This system will take the inside air at a high volume, and exhaust it. It will take much of the heat out of the air (in the winter) and transfer it to the same volume of make-up air. It uses an air-to-air heat exchanger.

4 - The existing space heaters should probably be replaced with a sealed combustion heater or tubular infra-red heaters. Both of these heaters can be set up to take combustion air from the outside, and exhaust to the outside. They will consume less gas than your existing heaters. They will be unaffected by building pessures.

I used to do this for a living, so if you want, I can direct you to a few reputable contractors if you are in Northern Ohio. I am in Cleveland, so give me a call if you like.

216-401-1845

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/27/2008 9:30 AM

Good suggestions, and good effort oilguy, GA.

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#13
In reply to #6

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/28/2008 10:01 PM

All good answers, but I am further wondering who engineered the building of the boilers in the current manner to begin with. Seems they should have been a licensed engineer, but it apparently was poorly done. Have you looked at the original calculations and prints for the installation?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/29/2008 8:34 AM

The building originally had adequate louvering in the boiler room and a heated air makeup unit in the press room to balance exhaust fans in the ceiling. Over time and expansions the heated makeup unit was removed because it would have been on an inside wall. The production people raised such a fuss one hot summer that more exhaust fans were placed in the ceiling with little thought to the long range effects. This kind of stuff happens in small manufacturing operations when they are struggling to survive their customer base moving to Mexico.

In a perfect world a licensed engineer would fix all the technical problems and everyone would sit around the campfire cooking s'mores. I haven't seen that world yet. I have seen plenty of over over engineered installations that went belly up and I wonder if they could have survived with less "perfection" to amortize.

Forgive the rant, but I get a headache from hindsighters.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/29/2008 9:51 AM

Forgive my bad humor, but quarterbacking on Monday morning is less hazardous to one's health! Trying to do it Sunday is what separates the men from the boys.

I have been on both sides of the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" comments. In my old age, I know things are not always done right and at some point people get stuck correcting the errors of the past.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

10/22/2008 8:44 AM

Some good FREE resources in OHIO and also DOE for assistance on this. Would you like a local PE resource who can assist you?

Also, a company out of Georgia, EXHAUSTO, has a very well conceived and well implemented replacement to fixed louvre combustion air for boiler rooms and related combustion equipment areas. It is linked to the equipment and utilizes Variable Air Volume, and not static louvres to give you only the air you need under 100% control and integration to the boiler.

I have no monetary link to either of these resources, but can make referrals for you..

e-mail to jrsmith@armstronginternationa.com and I will assist.

I am a Certified Energy Manager (C.E.M.) and did some consulting in the past on these areas. Glad to be of assistance (I am still living in Ohio).

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/29/2008 9:54 AM

Most of the time in my experience, the original calculations are not available. Things get installed or changed with a handshake and a napkin sketch. The real world is sometimes a messy place and not everything is done with all the "i"s and "t"s dotted and crossed.

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#7

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/27/2008 9:20 AM

All good information. Thanks for the feedback! We will have Ohio Industrial Commission do some CO monitoring when the weather cools down enough to keep all of the big doors closed. This will be for safety first until we can replace the unit heaters with the the tubular style infra red that make the most sense.

I like the suggestion from THEOILGUY55 of putting an exhaust hood with fresh air source over the steam chest area. This is better than having a big heated make up air unit sucking natural gas. This is worth a GA at the very least.

Assuming we can otherewise balance the pressure with the outside or provide a slight positive I wonder if there much of an efficiency loss ducting cold winter outside air for boiler combustion?

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/27/2008 10:03 AM

There is no discernable loss of BTU's by taking your combustion air from the outside.

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/27/2008 2:49 PM

You lose about 30 BTU per pound of air using 0ºF versus 80ºF air. Without running through a whole combustion energy balance, I would guess the efficiency loss is nearly insignificant.

A dedicated source exhaust with heat recovery wheel or heat exchanger would be a big step in balancing the pressure. Assuming typical 15 foot high mounting, the radiant heaters described are also a great idea.

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#10

Re: Negative building pressure and harmful effects.

08/27/2008 12:11 PM

The building needs a steam coil, heated by the boilers, to preheat the make up air from outside to inside. The combustion air to the boilers has to be ducted in from outside and pre heated (air heater) and local exhaust ventilation has to be implemented where the excess steam is being generated. It seemingly is complex but once all the components are in place happiness will reign.

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