Anvil pedestal

You lucky thing to have a choice ...
I'd go for Oak, Beech, Cherry in that order...purely from a durability point of view. They won't be taking any real load...the shock loads will get absorbed by the inertia of the anvil I'd have thought...but if shock loading was an issue I'd still probably have 'em in the same order...although maybe swap cherry and beech...but on the other hand maybe swap...(just teasing now)

Del _{(I wish I had a nice anvil )}

It's a poor man's anvil - a nice piece of 110 pound rail. I have a small (8 pound, I think) real anvil for precision work, but the rail does well for the real pounding. I do only cold work since I don't have a suitable building for a forge. For whatever perverse reason, my wife won't allow me to have her potting shed!

i don;t know were my graddad got this anvil but it mist weight 500 lbs I swear big olde thing and still has the point. must be 200 years old.

Before 1984 I was working at the county road department. They had a large anvil that was stolen. I don't think that yours is the missing one, but how does one steal an anvil that is almost 2 feet long. I also have gone to the rail road track. Works as a counter balance on the engine lift as well.

GA to you Del.

Same boat here, need a good anvil!

My understanding of an anvil's effectiveness is governed by

Ft=Mv

where F is the impulse force of the hammer, acting for time t nd M is the mass of the anvil and the stand to which it is bolted; and v is the velocity of anvil as it rebounds from the hammer strike.

So the heavier you make the base and anvil, the less the anvil rebounds from the strike and the more effective is the hammer at shaping the workpiece. Oak would certainly fit the bill, but it has "give" which absorbs the anvil's reaction to the strike but does not stop it from moving. However you might consider putting a thick plate of steel between the anvil and the wood to make the impulse more effective by minimising the distance the anvil moves. If you could make a concrete pier upon which to mount the anvil as an integral mass, from a concrete that is not brittle, this would be the ultimate way to mount the anvil

yeah concrete sounds good with a recess on top of the pier for the anvil base and some rebar around the recess to strenghten the concrete. good idea.

Cherry, Black

Black cherry (Prunus serotina) is sometimes known as cherry, wild black cherry, and wild cherry.

The wood has a fairly uniform texture and very good machining properties. It is moderately heavy, strong, stiff, and moderately hard; it has high shock resistance and moderately high shrinkage. Black cherry is very dimensionally stable after drying. Black cherry is used principally for furniture, fine veneer panels, and architectural woodwork. Other uses include burial caskets, wooden ware, novelties, patterns, and paneling.

The wood of beech is classed as heavy, hard, strong, high in resistance to shock, and highly suitable for steam bending. Beech shrinks substantially and therefore requires careful drying. It machines smoothly, is an excellent wood for turning, wears well, and is rather easily treated with preservatives. Most beech is used for flooring, furniture, brush blocks, handles, veneer, woodenware, containers, and cooperage. When treated with preservative, beech is suitable for railway ties.

The red oaks are primarily cut into lumber, railroad crossties, mine timbers, fence posts, veneer, pulpwood, and fuelwood. Ties, mine timbers, and fence posts require preservative treatment for satisfactory service. Red oak lumber is remanufactured into flooring, furniture, general millwork, boxes, pallets and crates, agricultural implements, caskets, wooden ware, and handles. It is also used in railroad cars and boats.

Rigid mass is what is needed. Wood has a lot of strength in line with the grain but a lot of resiliency as well. Consider casing a base out of cement. If you can scavenge a bit from the excess of a local pour it can be free or low cost. If you have to mix and pour yourself it will cost some and be hard work but the performance will be much better.

If you cast the mounting bolts right into the base then the rebound mount will be solid as well.

If you wish to stick with the wood the red oak would be my recommendation. Cherry is easy to work but light and splits easily. Beech I don't know too well. If you want the highly sophisticated measure of the characteristic you want try googling on the Young's modulus of these materials or the compressive modulus.

Best wishes,

Mr. Gee

I would ask someone at a local saw mill. If you got cherry logs you got money.

We mounted our on a 4 to 5 ft log of oak, beech might be good as the fibers are tight don't know how it dies when it drys. Locust would be best but large locust are hard to find. White locust is a very very hard wood when dry.

No locust. These were some blow-downs occuring about 25 years after a fire (uphill basal fire scars opened the trunks to carpenter ants) in a steep gulley to the rear of my house. Getting a log out would be a challenge. I talked to an Amish guy about bringing his horse in but he won't do it for fewer than perhaps 50 logs. I know that cherry is expensive in much of the US but, here in western PA, it's only slightly more than good oak. You can go to some of the local sawmills and buy it for $2-$3 a bf. I'm even seen one of the mills next county down using cherry for mine timbers.

I am curious isn't the density of the wood more important than the hardness? All hardwoods are not necessarily dense.

Of course I have been called dense but i couldn't support an anvil.

You might find this book interesting, maybe useful.

It's a free download at Google Books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=T000AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=usfs+strength+of+wood&source=web&ots=EPwrYnjmF4&sig=kGDzb3agqyqSnBPsZmFnH3D7Gwc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

Thanks to all. I think oak is the right best choice. Our neighborhood has a number of large silver maples, which are almost nuisance trees. Perhaps I can catch someone cutting one down and talk them out of a 3 ft log.

Hello TVP45:

sounds like you have a SERIOUS Anvil there! Good luck in all you do. You could tell your wife if you used her 'potting shed' for a forge, it would be nice a warm for her 'cuttings'?

stay safe

babybear

Whatever wood You choose in the end (and I would reccomend oak and beechwood, if they would be from my country, as we have here high quality wood) You must make sure that it is not fresh and it would be best if were drying for at least 20 years. Then, take log at least one meter longer than You need above ground, put 30Cm of compresed gravel underneath in a hole and put log upright then pour concrete around it at least one meter to each side, but make it with more cement and put some aditive to make it water resistant, also put less water so it would be 1/4 drier, but mixed very toroughly before pouring and then beat it to become compact. Choose finer separated gravel of uniform size as it make concrete more homogenous in mass whereupon it would transfer energy of blows better. You could put steel wires inside if You could afford them (as You have >>poor man's anvil<< instead of profesionall one) and put thick steel plate (one inch or more) on top to spread force of blows over whole surface of wood. Make hole for concrete as circular as You can, it is better for transfering energy of blows. after concrete hardens, dig a ditch around it at least one meter more and fill it with compacted sand or grawel... Later You could put some oakwood boards over it, so there would be perfect stand for proffesionall anvil once You can afford to buy it....... Details how to fasten plate on top and anvil on it I leave to You, but I would use big hexagonal head wood screws and make indentations arond holes for them so they would go under the surface of plate, and I would use same screws to mount anvil instead of welding it onto plate because sooner or later You would want to put professionall anvil there.

Above all, plan this to be in place where You would in future build Your kiln and whole workshop, so it would be in place as You add piece by piece in place...........

>>Who is failing to plan is planning to fail<< so plan it all first.........

I wish You great sucess and good health!

Silver Maple is actual poplar and gets very light and unstable and tend to split as it dries. Of the three woods first mentioned, Oak (black, white, red, post or what-ever) will work great and last a good long time if kept out of the weather. A 30" long by 2+ ft. diameter base is actually better (from my experience and I have used both) than concrete. I made one from cottonwood (a relative of the silver maple) that only lasted a few years. -free advice is always worth at least as much as you pay for it-

I may be misnaming the trees we have here. They are definitely maple - leaf, helicopters, dense wood, etc. The wood is not straight-grained and, even when completely dry, often cannot be split with a hydraulic splitter. And, it has a root system that completely covers some yards. It burns nicely (unlike poplar which tends to "pop"), but is usally too much trouble to split up, so lots of people simply throw the pieces away.

I'll try to identify what their proper name is.

Sounds like Sweet Gum to me. It will not spit like other wood but you can slab it off the side of the logs pretty good. It burns nice unless it is over dry and then it burns to quick for much heating purpose.

pipewelder

Nope. I definitely identified it today with the help of an Audubon guide to trees. It is Silver Maple or Creek Maple. The book says the wood is brittle, but I've not seen that.

Anyway, thanks to the remnants of hurricane Ike, there's a black oak blowdown in the hollow. One trunk section is 26" diameter and would be great except it's green, weighs a ton, and I don't know how to move it yet. I really need a mule!

Hello TVP45:

I would have thought any 'hardwood' will do the job fine. But my preference would be Oak. You could always have all three you mention with different sized Anvils on each? Perhaps not eh?

What do you do on the anvil? Are you a farrier or maybe you make gates and fences? (Just nosey!)

stay safe

babybear

Wood? why ? I suggest making that stand from steel angle iron ...something like,

L 3"x3"x 1/4" . Make a four legged stand, ......for stability and a corresponding 'tray' to place the base of the anvil into....

Wood is not a good choice, particularly if you will be , at anytime, hammering cherry red iron onto it.....forging, shaping ...etc.

dave

Dunno if I'm right here but I think there are some missunderstandings.
It's the inertia of the anvil which does the job (ok this is only a small 30lb anvil, but it depends on the work you are doing on it.)
The pedestal is just there to get the anvil to a good working height.

I think an anvil could be floated on a water bed or suspended on bungee cords and work fine except it would wobble about.

Good solid oak will be as durable and solid as concrete and probably have no more bounce than a steel framework... I think any old bit of tree trunk would be just fine.
The thing is to mount the anvil into/onto it in a nice solid manner and make sure the tree trunk isn't wobbly, but just bedding it down on dirt will achieve this.

I don't think it's rocket science.

Feel free to shoot me down guys (I'll be hiding behing a bit of tree trunk)

Del

Greetings.

I always like whatever is available and of course cheapest.

If you use a chunk of wood I wood suggest that you put a band of metal around the top about two inches from the top and another one two inches from the bottom. This will help keep the wood from splitting and coming apart.

I wood suggest that you figure out what is the best working height for you and cut your wood for you. There is nothing more backbreaking than working on an anvil made for a taller or a shorter person.

It is kinda like making a chopping block for wood (another wood thing) size it to your height.

Remember don't make this thing so heavy that you need 4 men and a boy to move it.
I always seem to need to move these big things for two many reasons and getting 4 men and a boy on a late Saturday night is next to impossible.

Good idea about the band. I've got some old pieces of wire rope I can use soon as I figure a cheap way to tighten it.

Yes, the weight is important. All three pieces of wood have to be carried through at least a 30 m vertical rise on a 30-40% slope (except the oak which has to come about 40 m). I'm trying to find a drag path for my winch.

I know concrete and steel are perhaps better, but I like wood. There's just a feel about it that talks to my inner nerd.

In Georgia,Red Oak is the Oak for Splitting.I learned this from 50 years of splitting oak the old fashion manual way.I also heated solely with wood for a good 14+ years of my life.

Also as working as a industrial mechanic in mills and chemical plants for 38 years,I have installed and removed HEAVY to light machinery from reinforced concrete.Concrete is destroyed and removed by pounding.Also.Moisture collects and rots wood where it sets on concrete.Soaking the end in Thompson's Waterseal helps prevent this.It needs to be redone every year.

A section of piling or power pole sunk into the ground does not rot,absorbs the shock,works great and has outlasted most users in South Georgia on old farms.Under a dirt floor shelter or outside works great.About 4 feet into the ground does great in our sandy soil.RR rail makes a fine anvil.A square steel plate the size of your post with the 4 corners bent down or cut off and welded down distributes the force over the top to help prevent splintering.The bent corners keeps it from coming off.The rail is welded to this plate.The plate must be at least 1/4 inch mild steel.The anvil and plate can be kept inside and installed or removed for use if your post is in the weather.Anyone who works construction as a Carpenter can find a piece of piling cut off after the bearing load is reached.You can also look in the yellow pages for pile driving.

I know this has been satisfactory for several over many years.I hope this may be of help to someone.alfred

Guest,

A good answer! You should sign in and share more of your useful ideas. Thanks. By the way, we got hit with the remnants of hurricane Ike last night. Gusts to 80 mph, so I may have some more choices of wood today. There appears to be an apple tree leaning against my house (still not light enough to see much), so perhaps I'll find something else to think about.

Wood is the proper material. Do not listen to these "rocket scientist" that tell you to go concrete. Concrete will chip off pieces, crack and soon you will have pieces of concrete flying about as you try to hammer. I like oak but that is just because I am a bit hard headed. Newly cut Red oak tends to split rather easily. I have never tried to split cherry or beech. I have split hundreds of oak logs for fire wood though.

I have 2, 150 lb anvils. one in my Fab. shop mounted on a heavy iron base and one next to my coal forge mounted on a red oak stump. Both work good but I would prefer the red oak stump for real smithing. I have used many different kinds of hard wood stumps in the past and all seem to do good till they get wet and start to rot. If it is kept in the dry it should last you forever. One thing you can do is to forge some 1" wide rings to wrap around your stump tightly and prevent any splitting. Since my elbow tendinitis got bad I hardly use the forge and anvil anymore. Always hoping for the day when I can hammer again :)

getting old sux!

pipewelder

Hello TP45,

You are wise to seek opinions regarding methods to mount and anchor your anvil. Nothing is more of a pain in the big toe than having a 30 lb. anvil land on it from even a short fall.

I have looked at a number if home made anvils over the years. Some were made from short sections of rail road track. Not the best choice, but if that is what you can scrounge, then that is what you use. No shame in finding alturnative uses for materials.

My personal choice for a light duty home made anvil is an 18/24
inch piece of 8"X6"x what ever is available in length, section of heavy I beam, hot formed. This will have a web of about 1/2" to 3/4 " thick and flanges the same or similar thickness. Have your local welding shop cut into the general shape of an anvil. You will find it to be far more useful this way. I will not cost much and will permit you to use a little smaller Oak Tree "chunck" for a base.

Unless you plan never to move it around, I suggest that you construct a platform about 3' square from 2X whatever you can get cheap, lumber. Run a few lag bolts from the underside of the platform up into the oak chunk. Then fabricate 3/4 diagonal braces that will prevent the assembly from tipping over. You did not state whether you are using the top or bottom part of the rail for the work surface, but either way, please consider this advise. I have worked with miles and miles of railroad in my younger and dumber days. It's heavy, and most of it is flexable, except for the first 18/24 inches of un-cut rail. The ends are heat treated. Note: just because you have a piece that has holes drill into the web for track bars does not mean that you have a heat treated end. Track is often cut to fit where needed especially on side track installations. A word of caution here: though flexable RR track is also brittle and will break much easier than most folks think, wear Eye protection when ever you are working with RR track as your anvil.

For my personal installation, I used a 16" dia. "chunck" of oak, and dipped the lower two feet into liquid cold process roofing sealant, and let it dry for a couple days. then I "excavated" (I like that big word) a hole two ft deep and placed my "chunk" of oak in and tamped the loose material as I backed filled the hole. I was now ready to mount the anvil. A word of caution: determine the finish height that you want the working surface of your anvil, and which ever method you use for placement of your anvil, insure that you have lots of room all around it, as somehow you will almost always end up trying to bend or straighten out or flatten a piece of work that is longer than you have room to work on. Therefore "My anvil is the center piece of my work area under a shelter to keep it out of the weather and me out of the sun"

"Enjoy venting your emotions", If nothing else seems to work, get a sacrificial piece of material and beat it to "smitherienes" on your anvil.

TMF

I found this chart at the Seattle Hardwoods Site:

Considering the mass of the size of the timber that is going to be used and the limiting properties that surface with the use of a section of rail road track as an anvil, plane old hemlock, pine or fir will work. The harder the timber the more difficult it is to work with. However the thread poster states that he has oak and maple available, so pick one and get to work, time waits for no one.

TMF

I had to give you a GA for that post. when I mounted my anvil I did it because I had the stump and it was close to the right height but mainly I needed to start beating on some iron real fast to make some curtain rod and holders for the wife. So I eye balled in a fairly straight surface on the oak stump with a chainsaw and set the anvil on it. The stump I used is probably 30" or more diameter so it is very stable just siting on the ground. I thought a little about actually attaching the anvil to the stump before I started whooping on some iron but I decided to wait because of the urgency of the wifes proposal. Been using it for 4 or 5 years from time to time and never have attached it to the stump. With it weighing 150 lbs and sitting really flat down on the stump it never moves around. Maybe one day I will get a bunch of extra time and drive a couple of spikes down and bend them over the ears of the anvil to make it "safe" or maybe break a foot if I don't. One thing for sure is that with my general luck track record I would be the first one to knock a 150 anvil off a stump with a 4 lb. hammer.

pipewelder

Actually, I'd go with pine. The pedestal does not have to be a monolithic piece of wood. One of the nicer ones I've seen was actually made of four pieces of railroad crosstie held together by eight horizontal 1x4 slats (Four around the top and four around the bottom) nailed directly into the crossties. They absorbed the shock of hammer blows very well and, at last note, had lasted over 60 years.

I am new to the "art" of permanently mounting my anvil. So far, I have only used it for straightening purposes, but am considering the wood block to set it on. I have considered laminating poplar planks and shaping them to fit my anvil.

I read through this and threads on other sites, most seem to want to recommend steel. You folks seem to like wood, as I do. However, I have not seen a discussion mentioning what I would consider as the ultimate, Boise d'arc, sometimes called Bodac, hedge apple, or horse apple. The wood is extremely dense, will not rot, resists burning, and basically split proof. When I was a lot younger, I tried, an axe barely marks it, and many hydraulic splitters do not have the power to split it, either.

The problem is that finding a large enough piece for a block is difficult. Has anyone ever heard of the wood? I have been told that some of the Indian tribes used the wood for unbreakable bows.

Just asking