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The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/16/2006 11:03 AM

My grandmother's life started before automobiles, and ended after we put a man on the moon. Cars, planes, jet planes, rockets, computers, radio, television, were all brand new to her. She was almost 40 when women got the vote in the US, and slavery was outlawed here just 20 years before her birth. It's a matter of perspective, but I think that we can say that no generation saw more dramatic change before hers, and perhaps no generation will see more dramatic change after hers. (Alvin Toffler might not agree.)

But last night, as I looked over the shoulder of my son doing his physics homework (which he submits on line) it struck me that the way in which he calculates things would have struck me as almost absurd in my slide rule days.

My son Stephen uses Google as a calculator. One advantage (over his amazing graphing calculator) is that Google keeps track of the units, so when he knows he's looking for joules and he gets fig newtons, he knows he did something wrong. He is amazingly fast with a keyboard (learned mainly from online gaming) and understands the math and physics concepts well, but he is a little sloppy, and might go through five or six iterations of a calculation before he gets it right. The calculation is right there on the Google entry line, so he just edits the line to move a couple parentheses, and in a couple seconds he has his answer. I'll occasionally do a units conversion in Google, but it never really occurred to me to use it routinely (I do spreadsheets, or use the scientific calculator built into Windows). I'd guess that Stephen can have an answer (even with a few iterations), in about the time it takes me to think about what formula might apply.

Suppose that you, like me, are a little dim-witted when it comes to appropriate use of units. And suppose you're thinking about a weight loss business in which you take your clients up into space to solve their weight "problem." How about 4000 miles up (or 8000 miles from the Earth's center: If you haven't used the Google calculator, try typing this in: G*(6e24 kg)/(8000 miles)^2 (Mixed units… who cares! Constants? Google knows plenty of them.) When you hit enter, Google will show you that your clients will weigh about a quarter of their weight on earth. You should get a lot of clients, right? (Having written this, I'm thinking this might not make sense to my brethren and sistern around the world, where people have mass instead of weight. For us English units types, slugs seems like an insult, I guess.)

So here is the absurd part: The calculation is pretty straightforward, and could be handled by any calculator, even a four banger, if you know (or look up) the G constant. But to do this calculation via Google, you are using your high-powered PC, which could do a gazillion calculations like this in a second. Not only that, but you are using it as a virtually dumb terminal. Perhaps thousands of miles away, what you've typed into the search line is parsed in some other computer. That computer has to ask, "Is this guy (or gal) looking for a text string, or does he want a calculation performed?" Having decided, then the calculation itself may be performed in that computer… or maybe yet another. The answer might take a circuitous route to get back to you, involving various switches and routers, modulators, demodulators, thousands of miles of cables, etc. etc.

Had someone told me, back in my college days, that my future son would be using perhaps $millions in (shared) computing hardware to do a calculation I could do on my slide rule, I would have fallen off my chair. It may seem a bit inefficient, but on the other hand it seems way kewl.

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#1

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/16/2006 11:16 AM

I've watched my 8 year old grandson playing video games. In his favorite game, he uses (I counted) 10 different knobs, buttons and joysticks on his hand-held controller. And in complex combinations. His fingers move so fast that I can't follow them. His game requires feedback and dexterity skills that I've never seen required by any "real" job - even space shuttle pilot. It makes me wonder what that generation will be able to accomplish. (If they can put down their games.)

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/16/2006 12:54 PM

We should hide all the current outstanding math and physics problems as video game cheats for popular video games. We'd have a grand unified theory by next christmas.

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#3

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/16/2006 9:29 PM

I have some pretty strange things in my office, one of which is an actual working slide rule that measures 10 feet long by 2 feet wide. It hangs from my office ceiling. Many years ago I looked after a school that had been shut down, this was in an attic, likely a teaching aid from way back.

A slide rule was never one of my daily tools as it was for my father who became an engineer in the 60's, although I do remember working without computers, cell phones and fax machines. My children can't imagine a world without them and I look forward to seeing what tools are commonplace when my 10 year old daughter graduates.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/16/2006 9:37 PM

Lest you think I meant that the school was in an attic, I will clarify....

The giant slide rule was in the attic of the school. This is also where I found the bats that now occupy my bellfry.

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 6:49 AM

I've still got a couple of my slide rules, they were indispensible in the late 60's and early 70's...

Last time I looked at one though I hadn't clue how I used to use it!!

I would put that huge slide rule on ebay... I bet it would fetch a fortune for someone to hang in their study or somewhere!!

How many people can boast they have a 10' slide rule hanging on their wall?

John.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 9:39 AM

In the 60's I used my father's slide rule from the 40's from when he was in college (the war and then family ended his engineering pursuit -- when the war ended he was flying B-29's). The slide rule was teak with an ivory cladding (probably plastic). The premium slide rules made in the 60's were bamboo and seemed to slide easier. Circular slide rules were popular. In high school, math competitions between schools included slide rule competitions where speed as well as accuracy was of the essence. Our high school had at least two large demonstration slide rules that hung over the blackboard in a couple of classrooms.

Slide rules only have 2 to 3 digits accuracy, but like Mr. Spock, students would feign much greater accuracy. Units had to be kept in ones head as well as decimal point location -- easy enough to do with practice. In the digital age, accuracy is commonly ignored -- a potentially dangerous practice. We were required to give a result that gave the accuracy of the calculation plus or minus the accumulated error based on the accuracy of the original measurements.

The concept of the slide rule is easy. Using two rulers with scales on both sides, one can make a slide rule that adds. The slide rule had the scales in a log format -- distance between the numbers varied linearly with the logrithm of the number. As with logrithms or exponents, adding them multiplies the numbers. Extra scales for trignometric and natural logrithms were also available as well as triple log scales -- hence all the scales that made the instrument seem more complicated than it was.

What was the memory trick to remember the definition of a logrithm? -- "The number the base has to be raised to get the value"

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 11:12 AM

A very nice explanation of slide rule function.

When I was in high school, I had a cheap slide rule -- probably all plastic, I'd guess. But when I went to college I bought a set of (Pickett, I think) slide rules, one about 12", one about 6" that you could keep in a shirt pocket (to advertise just how nerdy you could be). Both had nice leather cases. They were aluminum, coated with 5600 angstrom unit yellow (which my older brother told me was essential for optimum visual acuity). (This is the same brother who had memorized pi to 100 places -- at least that is the myth I've been circulating. Now however, he says he knows it to 54 places, and that he never knew it to 100. But he is even more antique than me: maybe he's just forgotten that he memorized to 100.)

I still have at least one E6B circular slide rule, which is specialized for use in flight. Also built into it is a translucent panel on which you can plot points and draw lines to do the vector calculations required. For example, you can graphically and quickly calculate your course over the ground given a heading, an airspeed, and a wind of some speed and direction.

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 10:03 AM

I agree; it would fetch a fortune. I'd hate to see it leave Merkelerk's hands though: I think he'll be a good custodian. We used to have one like that in my high school physics classroom – and probably several in college, although I can't picture them. Also in college, we had glorified four banger Wang calculators that had a desk top keyboard and a processor that sat on the floor and was the size of a trash can. The fact that it could do square roots almost instantaneously seemed really impressive at the time. That was about all it would do beyond the basic +, -, /, x. I'm almost certain that you had no option but Reverse Polish Notation. In contrast, my son's calculator does 3D graphs, has an equation solver built in that will solve any number of simultaneous equations, has most constants already stored, loads of pre-programmed functions, and any number that you program yourself, etc., etc. And, of course, it fits in his hand.

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#70
In reply to #3

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/27/2006 12:31 PM

Its great to see all these discussions about slide rule. There seems to be a resurgance in their history and use. If everyone gets a chance, drop my www.sliderulemuseum.com for a visit. I have over 1000 slide rules in my galleries, with manuals for that slide rule you have in your drawer.

Thanks,

Mike
curator@sliderulemuseum.com

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#71
In reply to #70

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/27/2006 12:46 PM

Hey Mike,

It is really easy to set up clickable links using the Insert/Edit Hyperlink too above, just to the right of U, instead of typing out a URL that someone then has to cut and paste into their browser. Just highlight the text, click on the tool icon and paste your URL thereand click SUBMIT.

For example, you could have said, "Drop by my slide rule museum for a visit"

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#5

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 5:17 AM

I like the weight problem as an example. Placing someone in space might change their weight, as much as down to zero, but will not change their mass. I guess we should rename "Weight Watchers" to "Mass Watchers"?

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#7

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 8:40 AM

I can't help but notice that there are a lot of fans of slide rules in this thread. Any of you look down upon the idea of kids these days growing up 'spoiled' as they simply plug and chug everything into their calculators.

Some say they don't learn that way

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 8:52 AM

In my opinion, no more spoiled than we are with our fancy indoor plumbing and electricity.

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 10:48 AM

I think it's really one of those double-edged swords. In my son's case, he can accomplish far more with the use of a calculator or computer. At the end of his sophomore year in high school, he'll have two college level calculus courses under his belt, as well as AP physics and AP chemistry. We've never pressured him – it's more a case of simply getting out of his way and advocating for him in the schools. I'd guess that he can get through the average physics problem in half the time that it takes me – even if we both have access to the same tools. (While I'm still mentally reciting SOHCAHTOA and visualizing triangles, he's already got the calculation typed into Google. He hits enter, and up pops… the wrong answer. Fingers fly again, and he hits enter, and boom, there it is. Whoops, that's too big, "Oh yeah, forgot the ½". Fingers fly again, and click: the answer. Meanwhile, dad is still jotting a few things down in preparation for firing up a calculator or entering it into Excel, if I have that open.) I kind of plod along relying on old thought processes, and he flies through it as if he's playing a video game.

On the other hand, one of my daughter's good friends (age 10) asked me if she could borrow a calculator. I didn't have one right at hand, or I would have given it to her without thinking. But I had a second to think, and said "Wait a minute! Aren't you working on these exercises to develop skill in doing calculations in your head and on paper? No way Jose." For her (she's had trouble with learning her basic number facts) a calculator would be a crutch. She's very bright, and simply needs to practice a bit, I think. Without the practice, she could end up one of those people who can't make change or balance a checkbook.

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 11:24 AM

I must admit I do despair when I hear about how kids depend on calculators these days.

A few months ago I'd just finished some shopping and was in a pub having a glass of beer, as I waited for my change I looked at the til reciept and quickly added up just roughly to check the total was within an acceptable margin of error i.e. the total was £25 I wanted to see if it was within +/-£0.50...

The young barmaid approached me with my change and asked what I was doing... I told her and she looked quite shocked and said, "how do you do that without a calculator!?".

I just had to look back and say "how would you manage to give me the correct change without your til?".

John.....

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#12

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 11:10 AM

Now, if we can just get them to learn simple house hold chore!

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#15

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 1:14 PM

What's a slide rule...LOL!!! Sorry...I had to say it.

Coming from more of the somewhat younger (think late 80's early 90's) era of the tech generation, I have never used or even knew of such a tool until my grandfather gave me one when I was a teenager. When he explained to me how to use the slide rule I think I told him I'll just use my calculator. What's even more peculiar is I helped my grandfather clean out his cellar last weekend (he's 80'ish and doesn't have a desire to deal with all the tools and stuff) and I found 2 more of the pocket style slide rules mentioned earlier. Times have changed and how are children accomplish tasks will be different from ours...count on it!

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#16

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 2:54 PM

As an engineer and an MBA, I am more concerned that our kids will lack the tools they need to understand, interpret, and take part in the economic-socio-political world around them, i.e. the world of business, social relations, and citizenship. My 11-year-old loves math and science, which is great, but he finds social studies and English.... BORING!

I think one of the greatest challenges that face us as a society is not whether or not one can do calculations in your head, on a piece of paper, slide rule, calculator, PC spreadsheet, or Google, but whether one can think for oneself, and not be spoonfed (force fed?) "the Truth" by a biased media, self-righteous educators, or by an autocratic government. I also fear for our democracy if only the educated elite have a notion of what it takes to be fluent in our native language beyond a few thousand words found in most spell-check dictionaries. (How often have you found perfectly good words highlighted by the spell-checker simply because they were not in the database?) The ability to communicate through the written word, both reading and writing, above an 8th grade reading level (the target level for most newspapers and magazines) is essential to development of new ideas and high level ethical, moral, and social discussions. If we are to maintain that we have a participatory democracy, where everyone's voice can be heard, we need as many voices as possible that are educated to communicate at the highest level of which our intelligence is capable.

In engineering school, we used to joke about engineers being poor spellers and even poorer writers, but it really is no laughing matter. How are top level decision makers going to take advice from engineers seriously if it cannot be communicated properly and in standard English, not techno-speak?

No, the greatest challenge is not to get our kids to learn to use certain tools (physical or mental) that may or may not be obsolete within their lifetimes, but to learn to use all parts of their brain equally well, so that it will never be obsolete within their lifetimes!

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#17

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 3:32 PM

Maybe. Kids today aren't any stupider than we were, but they have the advantage of the world at their fingertips.


On my Google desktop at work I have:

BBC NEWS

NEW SCIENTIST

SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN

SPACE.COM,

which are all great for my engineering brain, but I also have ARTS AND LETTERS DAILY, http://aldaily.com/

a portal to dozens of journals and hundreds of articles from the widest spectrum of social and political thought.

And the web just keeps growing, bringing more and more information within easy reach.

Thirty years ago, with 3 TV channels and no web, it was a lot easier to be ignorant.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 4:56 PM

Hmmmm.....yes, those are all great websites. But remember the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

My boy gets on the Internet primarily to look up cheat codes for his GameCube and to play Runescape, an online fantasy game. I think it is just as easy to be ignorant (unlearned, uninstructed,....?) today as it was then.

Thirty years ago we also had an easy access media, called books and magazines. These could be found in what I shall call a printsite. These printsites were connected by Streets, Roads, and Sidwalks, not the Information Superhighway. That database where you kept your own personal media was often referred to as a Bookcase or Magazine Table, which you could access by clicking your key into the door of your Home printsite. Of course, many people ventured beyond their home printsite. Kids in particular, were encouraged to visit their school or public library printsites. Some people even had pornographic printsites, but at least the kids could be kept away from them. We also had Word Processors, called a typewriter or pen and paper. And of course almost everyone had a spell-checker. It was called a Dictionary, which you used with your Brain.

Other printsites with easy and free access included the Public Library, School Library, doctor's/dentist's office, your Office Bookshelf or company library, etc. Of course there were Pay sites also, some things called Bookstores, or Newsstands. And of course you could subscribe to certain off-line media and get a download by snail-mail every month, or weekly even. And if you were really lucky, and had parents who invested in your future, you could browse the family Encyclopedia and download information to your brain to your heart's content, both text and graphics! People could even upload comments and literary contributions. It was called getting published. Unfortunately, due to limited bandwidth, only the best efforts got published, unlike today, when any hack can have his (and I am not going to be PC and say his or her, it should be assumbed that both males and females are included when speaking in a generic sense) blog "published" on the web. Yes, video was limited to only a few channels, unless you lived in an area that had "Cable", that newfangled technology you had to PAY for, but that was OK, because we could always turn off the Idiot Tube and do other things in our Living Room. And we usually did have a separate living room, without a TV. We did not live, eat, and for some today, sleep in the TV room like many do today.

The living room was actually used for living, imagine that! Of course, many today get confused, and call their TV Room their Living Room, but I prefer to keep one room available, without computer or TV, to sit down with a good book or magazine, or with a friend neighbor, or a family member and have a conversation. That is what I call a Living Room!

Donlt get me wrong. I LOVE the Internet and the World Wide Web. It is certainly much easier to get information now. It is just as easy to get mis-information as well! You really have to be more careful now than ever before, or you will wind up accepting a lot of hogwash as truth.

By the way, it seems there is this sad widow in Nigeria who wants to share her late husbands wealth with anyone who will just send her your bank account information so she can get the money out of the country, and then only retrieve a small share of it from your account later. Interested?

Well, as my high school Geometry teacher used to say, "What's all this ∏ r2 business? Everyone knows Pie are round!"

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#19

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/17/2006 5:17 PM

I remember well the limitations of the "printsites". Being limited at work to the number and quality of the databooks I could wrangle from vendors and manufacturers (assuming I knew what vendors and manufacturers to ask). Being limited at home to the number of books I could afford to borrow or buy (assuming I even knew of the titles available, and where to borrow or purchase them).

Now if I have a whim, I can check it out immediately, and for free, instead of having to travel to a library(ies), or order a magazine(s) or book(s) or catalog(s).

And I can walk through my house and my office without stumbling through piles of dead trees.

Another thing your son is learning is how to find information on the web. And he's learning that he can find the answers he's looking for. In a few years he'll use that knowledge to explore the mysteries of women, cars, colleges, home mortgages, a nice retirement home for his parents, and who knows what. Sure, he may turn out to be a lazy bum, but now his only limitation is himself.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 9:17 AM

All I am saying is that the Internet make EVERYTHING easier, including making it easier for others to do your thinking for you, like students who post their homework problems on CR4 as an engineering question instead of working it out for themselves.

I never said that printed media was superior to electronic media. I was just pointing out the analogies between the two, mainly for a humorous purpose. Sorry if you didn't get it.

Interesting that even today, we often need to find information that is only available in printed sources because it may be too obscure or too specialized to find a place on the Web. I have often given up fruitless Internet searches, only to find the information I needed in one of my company's "old" reference books. Anyone else have a similar experience?

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 9:30 AM

Yes STL......

I was taught that if you didn't know the answer at least your education told you where you could find it...

What I'm concerned about is that so many times on forums etc... I've seen people rush off to find an answer to someone's question and blindly put it on a forum as being true, when they had just Googled for it and assumed it was the correct answer...

There's an awful lot of duff information on the internet and some of it is downright dangerously misleading as well...

Its all very well if you know what sort of answer to expect to find i.e. you have an educated idea of what the answer should look like, but if you're Joe Public looking for an answer and picking the one that pops out of Google........

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.... A little Googling is worse!!

John.

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#22
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Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 9:39 AM

Exactly my point, John. Well said.

Some of the questions and challenges posted here are not fully defined or are somewhat ambiguous, then you might find several equally valid answers, depending on which assumptions you had to choose. But sometimes the answer is so clearcut, you have to wonder why there are so many bonehead aswers that are just plain wrong, even after the right answer has been given and seconded by many others.

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#23
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Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 10:53 AM

Oh, I got it. I just didn't agree with it. Certainly the Internet makes it easier to do stupid things - just as a car makes it easier to drive off a cliff. People who lack discernment are doomed no matter what technology they utilize. But, do you think the net is likely, overall, to provide more good information, or more bad information?

I know in my case, it's the former. Maybe it's because I have the sense to put more faith in a ap note from a semiconductor manufacturer than in an answer on a blog somewhere. And sure, there is information that can't be found, or found easily, online. But the information available at my fingertips today gives me access to a world of knowledge that simply did not exist when I was a teenager in the 70's. Including access to just about every book and print source out there.

Some kids will drown in the Internet for sure, but the ones who learn to swim will create the future.

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 11:34 AM

I think you have all made some great points, and find that I agree with seemingly divergent opinions. I share STL's concern that young people are increasingly being spoon fed answers, and that they give back what they get. I sat on a review committee for a senior project at Cornell University, where you'd expect to find some of the world's best engineering students. I expected to be impressed with their engineering expertise, but unimpressed by their presentation skills. Just the opposite occurred: their presentation skills were great, but the engineering was ho-hum. But in general, I agree that communication skills are going downhill.

For kids with curiosity, a love of learning, and great analytical skills, the Web is a godsend. Hardly a day goes by when I'm not stunned by the things that my son has picked up: he is far better-informed than I was at his age.

However, I mentioned a double-edged sword above. I fear that this sword may very well cleave between, and further separate, haves and have nots: we'll have some really impressive, incredibly well-informed young people, while people in the middle and below will fall hopelessly far behind.

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#28
In reply to #24

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 11:56 AM

Ken,

Interesting observation about the Cornell engineering students. It sounded very similar to student presentations I had seen in my MBA classes. Presentations were flawless, multi-media, good-speaking ability, good use of graphics, etc. but the content was at best mediocre and at worst downright illogical and wrong.

Has our academic system churned out college graduates who are great salespeople who know nothing about what they are selling? Or who have learned just the minimum to "get by" yet earn kudos and good grades because they package it well? To paraphrase an old saying, a pig dressed-up in a tuxedo is still a pig.

On the other hand, I taught freshmen and sophomores in an Engineering Design course at a Community College whose presentation skills during their semester project report were barely acceptable, but they had enthusiasm for their project and had really come up with exciting and innovative concepts. Hopefully the enthusiasm and innovation will not be drummed out of them when they go on to Engineerng School at some University.

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#25
In reply to #23

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 11:38 AM

Bhankiii,

You are beating a dead horse. We agree on some things and disagree on others. Maybe I am a "cup is half empty" and you are a "cup is half full" kind of guy in this matter, although you seem to think the cup is full to overflowing. I happen to believe there are "a few bugs in the system".

Do I "think the net is likely, overall to provide more good information, or more bad information?" Not the point. I am not saying, "throw the baby out with the bath water", I am saying DON'T DRINK THE BATHWATER! And, yes, "People who lack discernment are doomed no matter what technology they utilize." Doomed may be a bit horrific, but let's remember that lots of kids, and other people, "lack discernment" and need to know that there is bad information out there as well as good information. Just like the old caveats, "Don't believe everything you read in the Newspaper" and "Don't believer everything you see on TV", I say, "Don't believer everything you google on the Internet!"

Also, you don't have to agree with a person's point of view to find their humor amusing. I disagree with a lot that Rush Limbaugh says, for example, but I enjoy the way he taunts the Democrats!

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#26

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 11:43 AM

Yeah, my cup runneth over.

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#27

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 11:50 AM

And don't get me started on Rush Limbaugh -- he's the poster child for "don't believe everything you hear"!

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#29
In reply to #27

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 11:57 AM

Exactly, but he still makes me laugh.

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 1:37 PM

Who's Rush Laniemore... (spelt wrong no doubt)??

Maybe this is an example of the internet informing me about this person, but because I live on a different continent, it means nothing to me!??

John.

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 2:11 PM

Rush Limbaugh is a conservative political commentator and talk show host in the US, appearing on his own syndicated radio show, TV show, and making numerous TV and live guest appearances. He primarily uses satire and sometimes buffoonery, but often his points, although clearly biased, are extremely witty and on target. Often he will be asked to debate an opponent on the other side of an issue, and he can be charming, vicious, and patronizing, almost all at the same time.

Many people hate him (especially the liberal Democrats) and many people love him (especially the conservative Republicans). Many agree with him and many disagree with him, but many also find him highly entertaining, whether they agree with him or not.

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/18/2006 2:11 PM

Lucky you.

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#33

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 3:26 AM

Slide rules!

The SR-71 Blackbird was the last military aircraft designed using slide rules in the USA.

(I expect Russia continued in designing aircraft much later still using slide rules......maybe that is why we won the cold war Guys!)

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 6:59 AM

Don't knock the concept of using a slide rule...

As has been stated using a slide rule means you have to have an idea of what to expect as the answer, so in effect errors should be reduced using a slide rule...

Calculators are fine if used correctly, but if their results are taken as the gospel truth by engineers not thinking through the calculation, the errors possible are immense!!

Just remember the Mars spacecraft that missed Mars because someone had mixed up units in a calculation, pounds instead of kilograms I think.

The result was that the billions of Dollars spent on the project were totally wasted...

Also please remember that this is an international forum and to casually state that '....we won the cold war...' is a bit of a mistake isn't it??

John.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 9:58 AM

Well put. Although I have a fondness for slide rules, I'll have to admit I haven't used one in many years.

It's interesting that you mention the Mars spacecraft episode. I've been thinking about it too. That problem might been avoided if the engineers had been using the calculator built into Google. Until watching my son, I never gave any real thought to using the Google calculator, because I assumed, wrongly, that it would be pretty simplistic. One of the handy things it does is to do the required conversions automatically. It is also very flexible in the way you enter the calculation. For example, here's the calculation I mentioned before, which already has mixed units:

G*(6e24 kg)/(8000 miles)^2

It can also be entered as:

G*(6e24 kg)/(8000 miles)squared

Or:

G*(6e24 kg)/(8000 miles)squared in feet per second per second

Or:

(gravitational constant) *(6e24 kg)/(8000 miles)squared in feet per second per second

Or

(gravitational constant) *(Mass of earth)/(8000 miles)squared in feet per second per second

To try any other these, you just type them into the normal Google search line, and hit enter.

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#37
In reply to #35

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 10:26 AM

Ken, I've never even considered entering a formula into Google until you mentioned it....

I still find it incredible that you can enter the equation in such a haphazard way...

I'm off to try it now...

John.

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#47
In reply to #37

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 12:36 PM

John: You can have fun playing with the Google calculator. I was amazed to find how many constants it "knows": Planck's, Rydberg, R, etc, etc.

Here's the page that describes the functions, constants syntax, etc.:

http://www.googleguide.com/calculator.html

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#38
In reply to #34

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 10:49 AM

"Just remember the Mars spacecraft that missed Mars because someone had mixed up units in a calculation, pounds instead of kilograms I think."

Which is why they taught us in engineering school to carry through units along with values in ANY equation, to make sure that the correct units ended up in the answer by applying conversion factors which cancelled out the wrong units. Example:

A train goes 90 miles in 45 minutes, how fast was it going (constant or average speed) in MPH (or mi/hr)?

Answer: Speed = Distance ÷ Time = 90 mi/45 min X 60 min/hr = 120 mi/hr , because you get mi-min/hr-min for units, and the minutes cancel out leaving mi/hr .

I know then because the units are correct that I used the correct conversion factor. This method also helps you to remember whether to multiply or divide the conversion factor, because it won't work the wrong way, the units will not cancel, they will double up, for example:

Wrong Answer: Velocity = 90 mi/45 min ÷ 60 min/hr = .0333 mi-hr/min-min

This may seem obvious, but in complex calculations it can get non-obvious very quickly.

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#36

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 10:08 AM

Or, it might have been avoided if we had switched to the metric system 40 years ago, when I was starting elementary school.

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#39
In reply to #36

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 10:53 AM

There was a plan for the U.S.A. to gradually convert to the Metric system by about 1976. I don't know what became of it. It would have made life a lot easier.

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#59
In reply to #39

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 8:30 PM

A few years before that plan, Canada made the switch. I remember being taught the metric system way back in grade 5, during the ensuing transition years, most products, recipes etc. would use both systems. We had speeds posted in mph and kph, weather forecasts listed both Celsius and Fahrenheit, so many of us have little trouble using both systems even to this day. My parents, on the other hand, have always struggled with the metric system (my father, a mechanical engineer has less trouble).

Some aspects of metric I still prefer not to use if I can get away with it, likely due to the influence of American television and advertising. Miles per gallon is easier to get my head around than kilometers per 100 liters, and measures like pounds per square inch has a more intuitive feel than Pascals. I can mentaly "feel" a one pound weight pressing against the palm of my hand, but a force of one Newton pressing down on one square meter, thats a little harder to visualize.

When all is said and done, I think the Metric system is better.

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#41
In reply to #36

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 10:58 AM

Even in the metric system you have to be careful if you are working in km., m., cm, mm, μm, etc or kg., g., mg., etc. all common units inthe metric system. Your mistake will then be off by one or more decimal points, and a decimal point is an order of magnitude, so your wrong answer will not even be "in the same ballpark"!

And if you are using scientifc notation a wrong answer will be far from obvious, because the mantissa will be the same regardless of whether or not you used incorrect units, so your mistake will be far from obvious, ESPECIALLY if you used a slide rule which basically only calculates mantissas!

I have not tried the Google calculator, but if it works the way Blink says, that could very well save time, but I would miss the comfort of knowing that I double checked my work by carrying through the units.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 11:09 AM

I knew a guy in grad school who became so enamored of units that he quit using nanoseconds and started using fempto-fortnights.

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#48
In reply to #41

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 12:45 PM

STL I'm afraid I have to disagree...

You say its harder to use metric units because of remembering to use the correct units m, cm, mm, um, etc...

But remember the only units mainly in use are the mks units, mtre, kilogram and Seconds,,,

a centimtre is just a 100th of a mtre, millimetre is just a 100th mtre etc...

Just the same as a millisecond is a 1000th of a second...

So you only have to know the basic unit and then use the appropriate dacsde to express it in...

So there are no changing between different units etc... everyone knows that a nanosecond is a thousandth of a microsecond for instance.

Same with kg, gram and mg.... all thousandths of each other, there isn't any confusion at all....

Unlike the ounces, pounds, stones, quarters, hundredweight, tons etc....

To me it makes perfect sense to rationalise the measurement units to just one unit and use decade multipliers to give a realistic number... i.e. 1000,000 milligram = 1 kilogram

John.

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#50
In reply to #48

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 12:52 PM

John,

I never said it was HARDER to use metric units, only that you have to be careful sometimes with metric conversions also. And believe me, not everyone know whoat Kilo, mega, tera, micro, etc. mean. I am not even sure what "femto" means without looking it up!

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#49
In reply to #41

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 12:46 PM

STL: Here's a conversion to try:

speed of sound in furlongs per fortnight

the answer:

speed of sound at sea level = 2 046 124.55 furlongs per fortnight

This page describes some of the constants, syntax, etc:

http://www.googleguide.com/calculator.html

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#40

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 10:56 AM

It got killed because it would be too hard for Americans to learn. And it's too French. But I can't help but think that if we had done it back then, I'd probably know it by now.

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#43
In reply to #40

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 11:30 AM

In high school, everything was metric, and pretty easy to understand. Then in engineering college I had to learn to deal with poundals, slugs, pounds-force and pounds-mass. Of course the general public had to only deal with a limited set of units. A system where a pound of gold (troy) actually weighs less than a pound of feathers (avoirdupois), has not been a concern.

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#45
In reply to #43

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 11:36 AM

How many hogs heads in a hogshead?

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#44
In reply to #40

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 11:35 AM

There was much more to the reason for keeping the "imperial" system (inch, pound, mile, ounce, etc.) back then than a dislike of the French and being too hard to learn.

We had, and still have to some extent (but now not so much), a major investment in this country in machine tools (the backbone of manufacturing) that were based on those standards, so to easily utilize those machines, products still had to be designed to those standards. Back then most equipment was based on mechanical actuation and analog input/output (i.e. calibrated knobs, dials, rulers and tapes, etc.) so that to switch production to metric meant buying all new equipment, which would have been prohibitively expensive. Measuring tools for quality control were also much the same, and based on the same standards.

Most of that equipment is now old and almost obsolete. Most manufacturing is done now with programmable machinery that can be set to either "inch" or metric. Quality control is also done with digital guages that can output their data in either system.

It would be much easier today for industry to start a metric changeover than it was when it was originally proposed. However, the point has become somewhat moot. Most extremely technical design is already being done in metric (NASA, etc.). Engineering schools work most problems in metric or at least use both systems. My young children are learning both systems, kind of like being fluent in two languages, one modern and one archaic (like Latin or ancient Greek ) Products designed primarily for export are also designed in metric or are dual-dimensioned. The world has come to accept that US goods may be inch standards, but, at least for those where we have remained competitive, it doesn't seem to matter. And foreign countries, notably China, are producing goods for the US market to our non-metric standards as well!

I will admit, I still usually design in the "inch" standard, but I have no problem swithching to metric if it is called for. 25.4 mm per inch is my universal linear measure conversion factor, which can be approximated as 40 inches per meter or 4 inches equals 100 mm. And 2.2 lbs per kilogram works pretty well also. We pretty much have a dual-dimension economy now and it seems to be working, so, as the saying goes, "don't fix it if it ain't broke!"

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#46
In reply to #44

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 11:44 AM

Actually, here at NASA we still use the English system - example, I specify trace PCB trace widths in mils, and plating in ounces. When I have the mechanicals do a drawing for me, it's in inches. Maybe they use metric for that fancy rocket science stuff, I don't know.

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#51
In reply to #44

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 12:52 PM

STL.......... In the UK back in the early 70's we too had many machines and processes using imperial units of measurement, even screw threads with BA threads BSF and many others....

We didn't have to replace overnight our machinery, we just gradually phased them out.

Besides which most machinery, even back then, was built to accomodate being sold to metric countries and so the majority could be easily converted.

Saying that the main reason is the cost of changing knobs etc... is a non-starter, we did it in the UK why can't the USA??

John.

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#52
In reply to #51

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 1:00 PM

Very simple, John. You HAD to do it to be part of the EU and do business with it. You could not ignore EU requirements.

We simply had no such requirement, and we did have a lot of old equipment still in use. That is primarily because US industry was not decimated by WWII the way industry in Britain and on the Continent was, so you started with much new machinery anyway, that had already been built to metric standards.

If you know anything about machinery, you know there is a lot more to building metric than "changing a few knobs".

I am not saying we were right, just explaining why it happened that way.

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#54
In reply to #52

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 1:07 PM

Ohh dear me no STL......... back in the late 60's early 70's a certain Mr DeGaul refused to let the UK join the common market (as it was called back then) the EU wasn't heard about for another 20 years....

Even when we did consider joining the common market in the mid 70's the requirement that we used metric measurements was not essential at all.....

John. must go out now otherwise I'd have loved to sit here discussing it further.... maybe tomorrow?

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#56
In reply to #54

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 1:53 PM

John, John, John, are you quibbling about a few years? You said, "back in the late 60's early 70's a certain Mr DeGaul refused to let the UK join the common market (as it was called back then) the EU wasn't heard about for another 20 years...."

According to the Wikipedia article on History of the European Union, "Britain joined successfully on January 1, 1973", hardly "another 20 years". But there were many previous attempts and the reason for those was that Britain needed to reduce barriers to trade with Europe, including any problems involving "imperial" units versus metric units, whether it was required by law or not. In the US we did not have such a problem. Our biggest problem at that time, and still is, is how to fight off cheap foreign imports and save our manufacturing base without causing a trade war and retaliation against our exports, which had become primarily agricultural and materials.

If you are going to nit-pick with me about knobs, you better get your facts straight about the other stuff!

Further, you said, "Even when we did consider joining the common market in the mid 70's the requirement that we used metric measurements was not essential at all....."

So you admit, it was a requirement, and to say it was "not essential at all"? Oh, yeah, too right! That's why auto plants in Britain began producing the same vehicles, using the same part designs, identical equipment, etc., etc. as their corporate counterparts on the Continent. Not essential? Poppycock!

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#57
In reply to #56

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 6:28 PM

STL, I don't for one moment put any credence behind what is dug up on the internet, wikipedia or whatever you call it....

As I said the 'common market' was what we joined back then and your history references will verify that or they will be wrong!!!

the EU notion was formed about 20 years later... if the population of the UK knew that the idea behind the common market was to form a european union then the vote to stay out would have been taken in 1975, as it was it was a vote to stay in because it was just the same as EFTA (European Free Trade Association) and nothing more......

Since it has become apparent that what the other members want is a united states of Europe then for the last 15 years there has been massive protests to leave the common market "European Union" and we are still not officially full members of this travesty of justice, and crazy system that will end in a European civil war - just the same as it did in the USA, except you spoke the same language, we do not!!

John.

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#58
In reply to #56

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 6:38 PM

STL, please get your 'facts' from a reliable source and not from heresay and dubious quotes from the internet.

I'm not going into all the aspects about how the UK's manufacturing base was effected by WW11 as you seem to have Googled and found the answers you were looking for.

Try looking for the truth in Google and see what that search produces....

Read and understand the answers and posts put on here before pretending to understand another country's attitude and behaviour.

Your post is a typical response that I would have expected from someone who has been using the internet but not understanding or questioning the results found.

John.

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#60
In reply to #58

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/23/2006 9:36 AM

"Your post is a typical response that I would have expected from someone who has been using the internet but not understanding or questioning the results found."

Ouch, that hurts! Sticks and stones, John, sticks and stone......

I only citied Wikipedia because it was convenient. It only confirmed things I already knew. OK, so you joined "the Common Market" and now it is called the EU, so what? "A rose by any other name....."

"...if the population of the UK knew that the idea behind the common market was to form a european union then the vote to stay out would have been taken in 1975..."

If the population of the UK did NOT know that the idea behind the common market was to form a european union, then the population of the UK must be either stupid or daft. There has been a long history of Pan-Europeanism, and the Common Market was just part of that. If the population of the UK wants out of the EU now, it sounds to me like a bunch of sour grapes, that you guys did not get everything out of the deal that you thought you would. I am not saying the EU is good or bad, it might very well wind up in Civil War as you say, but that has nothing to do with my original contention that Metrification in Britain was reinforced by joining the Common Market and by closer trade ties with the Continent, whereas in the US we had no such overshadowing influence. In our ignorance, we continued to plod along as we had for decades, reaping all the low-hanging fruit we could with our archaic machinery before economic factors forced us to re-tool. And now that we have leapfrogged ahead in technology, admittedly with some help from both European and Japanese machine tool builders as well as new home-grown manufacturers, metric conversion is a moot point.

And regarding the machine tool industry, both in the US and in Europe, I am not just an internet Googler. I grew up with it. My Dad was an Engineer and executive in the 1950's, '60's and '70's, heading a machinery company with plants in the US, Belgium, and Germany. I myself went to engineering school in the '70's and began my career as a Manufacturing Engineer using Machine Tools and later as Project Engineer in Sales and Marketing for the US arm of a German/Swiss machine tool company in the '80's and '90's. Over the years I have read and discussed the state of the industry with everyone from company presidents, directors of marketing, chief engineers, on down to electricians, toolmakers, and machine assemblers, even the guy who sweeps the floor!

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#55
In reply to #52

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 1:10 PM

I do know a lot about machinery and changing knobs etc... but I picked on "that changing knobs" purely as you had quoted it as an additional expense the USA would have had....

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#53
In reply to #51

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/20/2006 1:03 PM

Perhaps I should add that I was taught using both sets of units, Imperial as well as metric...

To this day if someone asks me over the phone what is the rough size of something, I will automatically reply ..."Oh it about 6 inches by 10 inches by 4 inches..."

So I'm as guilty as anyone of mixing my units, or maybe just thinking in one unit and calculating in another....

Same with this modern metric money we changed to in 1971...

sometimes, not often, I've been charged 33 pence for something and I've shouted out,

"you mean it costs 6 shillings and a tanner!!"

John.

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#62
In reply to #51

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/03/2006 2:08 AM

It has been hard to decide when to jump into this lively discussion. In line with what John said, Australia changed to decimalised measurements in 1974 and there were some elements of "soft metrification", 6" U beams etc became 152mm until the tooling wore out. CAD / CAM and CNC machines made conversion issues obsolete as reinvestment occurred. As for ability to learn, some stubborn people longed for pounds shillings and pence long after their use by date (14th Feb 1966), others used the brain they were born with and uncluttered it. For instance my own father is 88 years old and is fully conversant with metric measurements, he is just cranky there wasn't the political will to change at Federation (1901).

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#63
In reply to #62

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/03/2006 11:25 AM

Wait a minute. There is a difference between decimalization of currency and metrification of weights and measures. It is relatively easy to change currency. Paper currency has a very short half life, and even coins can be recalled from circulation or become withdrawn very quickly by collectors when a change is made. Look at how fast silver coins disappeared from the US once copper-nickel clad coinage replaced them.

Besides, the US had had decimal currency for over two hundred years. With the exception of a few Spanish "Pieces of eight" silver coins (from which we get the slang term for the 25 cent piece, "two bits") that circulated in the early days of our country, when we were in the process of eliminating British pounds, shillings, pence, etc., we very quickly became decimalized. Did we take the rest of the world, especially the British Empire, later the Commonwealth, to task for keeping their oddball system?

I work for a company that makes standard industrial hardware (tooling and small mechanisms, not just fasteners). Almost everything we make is available in metric as well as inch-standard sizes. We even make mixed dimensional products for manufacturers who want to use metric tools for metric production with inch-standard machines and vice-versa.

Like I said earlier, I think the question of conversion to metric by the US is mostly moot at this point. There is no real valid reason to totally exclude the use of inch-standard design in favor of metric. If it is economically validated, it will happen. In most cases, it is a fait accompli. And I just can't imagine changing all of Grandma's old recipes from cups, pints, quarts, teaspoons, tablespoons, ounces, pounds, °F, and pinches to liters, milliliters, grams, kilograms, and °C!

Anyway, how many of you Brits still weigh yourselves in Stones, instead of Kilos?

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/03/2006 1:04 PM

Odd, isn't it, that Europeans "weigh" themselves in units of mass, and Umurcans weigh themselves in units of force? Does this mean that we Umurcans hold the high ground, physically speaking? Or should we be talking about ourselves in terms of slugs?

(Incidentally I use the term "Umurcans" in the Lyndon Johnson sense: "Mah fellow Umurcans…" to distinguish us from the other Americans living north and south of us.)

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#65
In reply to #64

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/03/2006 2:25 PM

Oh, let's not start that whole units-of-mass versus units-of-weight issue again! There was a whole thread on that some months ago! My conversion chart has both Kilogram (mass) and Kilogram (weight), which would be the force of one Kilogram (mass) at some altitude (on the surface, above sea level). So Europeans certainly do "weigh" themselves rather than "mass" themselves. Of course we are measuring weight, but we are really interested in mass, since you can weigh less on the Moon or in Space, but if you are obese, you will not be any healthier, at least not proportionately. Yes, there would be a reduction in exertion required that would lead to a slight reduction in blood pressure, but....

See, you've got me doing it already!

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#66
In reply to #65

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/04/2006 12:26 PM

Oh come on, let's start it up again!!

I find that where the issues become non-trivial are for calculations where there is a vertical force due to gravity acting on mass, and a horizontal force due to eg, rolling friction, air resistance, etc. In the US, if rolling friction is .013 (as it is for radial tires) then, if a car weighs 2000 pounds, the rolling friction is 26 pounds. Simple, yes? In Europe, if a car "weighs" 1000 kilos, then rolling friction would be (1000 x 9.8 x .013) 127 Newtons. In aerodynamic calculations, however, we really need to use units of mass (slugs commonly used in the US) or endure additional calculation to make the numbers come out right.

Granted, those who need obscure mass units in the US deal with it, and those physicists in Europe who cringe when someone says they "weigh" some amount of mass also deal with it. There's little likelihood of changing things, but I think it is interesting that both Europeans and Umercans use the units incorrectly (from a physics perspective) but incorrectly in opposite ways. It's particularly interesting because the difference is such a fundamental and simple one. If you ask a European how much they weigh on the moon, do they take their mass and divide if by 4 (which Newton would have seen as nonsensical)? If you ask an Umercan to give you the density of water, would they not say something like 64 pounds per cubic foot, instead of 2 slugs per cubic foot. (OK I know, Umercans, most of whom cannot locate Chicago on a map, would really answer: "Heck if I know.") Newton would find the typical Umercan answer to be nonsense, too.

Just an observation. Not a rant.

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#67
In reply to #66

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/06/2006 11:00 AM

Ken,

Usually, I agree with you. However something in this last comment I cannot abide!

I meant to comment on it in the earlier post that explained the term "Umurcan" (as in LBJ saying, "Mah fellow Umurcans...." ). BTW, is it Umercans or Umurcans?

Either way, I think it is a slap in the face of an arguably great American President (who is unarguably dead and cannot defend himself!), and our nation as a whole, to refer to us as Umurcans or Umercans instead of Americans! Are Canadians and Mexicans really upset that we call ourselves Americans, while they inhabit part of the North American continent as well? I don't really thinks so. Of course, they do call us "Yanks" or "Gringos", but that is fair, since we call them other names, too! But why should we denigrate ourselves by using the term you described?

Would it sound better if we changed the song from "America, the Beautiful", to "United States, the Beautiful", or the TV show to "United States Idol", or the rose to "United States Beauty", or would you prefer 'Umurcan Idol" or "Umercan Beauty"?

Look at Latin Americans. Sure, they inhabit all of Central and South America, and part of North America, but do they speak Latin? NO! Are they descendents of Latin speakers (the ancient Romans)? NO! Than is it any more valid that they call themselves, Latinos than that we call ourselves Americans?

And so are you making fun of LBJ's accent? Because, if you are, there are scores of millions of Texans packing six-guns willing to give you a spelling lesson! I don't think they would agree that LBJ called us his "fellow Umurcans"!

And this, BTW, IS a rant, not an observation! Better watch your step next time, buddy!

(Amer-icons!)

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#68
In reply to #67

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/06/2006 3:32 PM

Actually, I like LBJ too, for the most part, other than his being unwilling to stop the Vietnam War, in which thousands of my fellow Americans and innocent Vietnamese people were killed. He is on record as saying that he knew the war could not be won. (But neither did Kennedy stop the war, nor Nixon, initially. I admire JFK greatly.)

We've had presidents with all sorts of accents, and I am probably guilty of parodying those accents as well as others (such as Boston accents, Bronx accents, various southern accents, French accents, etc.) I look at people in public life as fair game... it's part of the territory. Without mimicking people in public life, where would Saturday Night Live be? Although the recent president I admire most as a good human being is Jimmy Carter, I've probably attempted to mimic his accent too.

We ALL have accents. I find it particularly funny when the Monty Python folks mimic the accent of typical Americans, especially those with the "standard American speech patterns" that one finds in, for example, Cleveland Ohio. (Many of us might say there is no Ohio accent.) I also find it funny that when in France, I will ask a question in my best possible French pronunciation, only to have the person to whom I am speaking immediately say, in English, "Oh, where do you live in America?" In just a few of my carefully spoken words, they have discerned not only that I am clearly not a native speaker, but also that I have the odd pronunciations of an American, not just those of a generic English speaker like a Brit.

I certainly did not intend to offend you with my use of a term to distinguish US Americans from all the other inhabitants of North and South America. It was intended to be light-hearted rather than denigrating.

Rest assured that I would not be so rude as to call a woman from Mexico a Latino.

You say "And so are you making fun of LBJ's accent? Because, if you are, there are scores of millions of Texans packing six-guns willing to give you a spelling lesson!" That you can so easily stereotype Texans as being so knee-jerk violent that they would shoot me for mimicking an accent of one Texan utterly amazes me. In this international forum, we need fewer, rather than more promotion of Texans as inherently violent and stupidly macho. We already have a current president sending out that message. Why further promote it? I have friends in Texas who would find your remarks deeply offensive an troubling.

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#69
In reply to #68

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/06/2006 3:55 PM

uh,....Ken? You did notice the smileys, right? The whole thing was a total put-on. I guess you got some of it, but thought I was serious about other parts.

You also said, "I have friends in Texas who would find your remarks deeply offensive an troubling."

Hoo, boy! Better put on my bullet-proof vest!

Anyway, yeah, I wouldn't call a young Mexican woman a "Latino" either, "Latina", maybe, but never "Latino"!

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#61

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

10/28/2006 2:35 AM

Best Wishes

I am back after having cutoff with the world for about two weeks. As expected, heavens haven't fallen.

The name "slide rule" hit an emotional chord. I have read the discussion. Ignoring the de track to EU etc, I appreciate the wisdom of your initial post.

Man is riding on the technology horse, but may also be inadvertently losing his skill to walk or run if the horse malfunctions. We need to retain the original human skills.

Best Wishes

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#72

Re: The Million Dollar Slide Rule

11/28/2006 4:12 PM

We had a situation at work where salespeople needed to be able to summon engineers when they were on a sales call.

One suggestion was to wire switches and lights between their respective cubicles, and another was to use Instant Messaging.

A software developer commented that only an engineer would think to run wires and hook up lights. My response was that only a software developer would suggest routing a message from New York, through a server in California, to get to the person in a cubicle down the hall! (We ended up using IM, it made much more sense).

BTW: GlobalSpec's search bar also has "calculator" functionality (although not with units or constants, yet). Give it a try.

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