LED Lighting vs. CFL Lighting

Do a google search on "led light bulbs vs CFL". There are a number of articles.

Allready in series and used in cars.

LED's also turn a lot of energy to heat but at 10mA current it is stille a better deal.

It is true that some LEDs can get hot, but in comparison to conventional bulbs where approximately 96% of the energy used is given off as heat, they are relatively good....

Even CFLs get a little warm......CCFLs are supposed not to get warm I am told, but as I have never seen one, let alone "felt" it, I cannot be 100% certain that the statement is true....

They won't peel the meat off your hand, like an incandescent will, but you can't hang onto one for more than a few seconds, once they are fully "on".

I've tried. CFLs had a nasty habit here in the US of catching on fire, due to faulty bases. It appears CCFLs have fixed that, but they still do get hot. Just probably never enough to start a fire. But your hand can't handle much over 140 degrees F (if you are tough, even then) anyway, and paper doesn't combust until you hit around 450 F (remember Ray Bradbury? Well the numbers also depends on the oxygen content in the environment, and other factors, so it isn't exactly 451.).

Mike

Depends upon what you mean by commercial production. The CREE XRE series, in the "cool white" Q4 bin, puts out 100 lumens @ 350ma, 3.3V. Per watt, that's 86 lumens/watt, and (as I understand it) more efficient than fluorescent. I can buy these mail order in quantity one, pre-mounted on a hexagonal puck. I've used them to build bicycle lights, and (using the less-efficient but better CRI neutral white LEDs) undercabinet lights. They are well-suited to that application; the single bright LEDs are not visible to adult eyes, and there's plenty of room for heat dissipation. The same company (ledsupply) that sold me the premounted LEDs, also sells LEDs arranged in a thin flexible strip, for just this purpose. By soldering my own I got slightly higher efficiency, and saved just a little money. The main problem for building LED lights is getting the heat out (heat is bad for LEDs) and the legacy fixtures that do not make it easy to get the heat out. I expect that LEDs would excel at track lighting; there's plenty of room for convection cooling, a premium on focused light (the lenses are cheap and work well), and such lights are already relatively costly.

Many, many, LED Bulbs are now available, we have several styles we are selling wolrdwide.

what application do you have?

There are some limitations, and obviously a price difference.

Please contact me off-forum for more details if you like.

Donald Campbell

Campbell Lighting/Everything LED

USA/China

LED is here and is real ting and no more in lab for blue sky research work. The problems associate with LED was tooling to apply die attach adhesive uniformly without pin holes and good chips. Thanks to development which allowed high power chips from CREE and good thermal managements. The bulb first application is in Plan lighting, tail light of automobile and personnel reading lamsps and torchlights.

Like every thing it will take time to market a new product and kill old one. One who gets on board first will have the low hanging fruits. Old technology of producing more heat and less light is on the way out and nes technology which is safe and generates minimum heat and maximum light is on way to replace.

Masyood hit the nail on the head with his comments. But I've done a good deal of thinking, and some additional research on this, along with using LED's exclusively in all of my hand, and head, lamps for a number of years.

Besides the obvious power savings in Lumens/Milliwatt (or whatever form of measure your economy uses) realized from the more efficient conversion of energy, the noted dearth of heat from an LED (less than one-sixth of the heat, per watt of light produced, compared to CFL's, and less than one-twentieth, compared to Incandescent bulbs), means that less cooling is required to dissipate that heat in modern houses, if lit with LEDs. Consider that a human being and a 100-watt incandescent give off nearly equal amounts of heat over the course of a day. So if you leave three bulbs on in your bachelor pad, while you move from room to room, you generate the equivalent heat (and require the equivalent cooling) of 4 people. Even 12 LEDs would still generate only one-fifth as much heat as those three bulbs.

Of course, that means we'd need to burn more fuel in winter to warm us. But the incandescent bulbs, for whatever warming value they provide, are inefficient heaters at best, since they don't provide pure heat, but divert some of it to light. (And who would have ever thought we'd decry an incandescent light bulb as a inefficient HEATER, anyway?)

All in all, I think there will be hidden savings in a 100% conversion to LED lighting.

Now if we can only get the buying public to see that the cost of an LED, at roughly 15 times that of a cheap incandescent bulb, is truly offset by the LONG life (40+ times as long, without degradation, as long as proper current control is maintained). Then we'd see the changeover occurring quicker, and my stock in CREE would go up much faster.

Mike

Life of LED bulb will be more than 100 years if one take care of

1. Die attach --> materials and processing to avoid hot spot and reverse current flow

2. Theraml management --> have good extration of heat either using thermal via or MLTCC (metal base low temperature cofire ceramic) type substrate

This is easy to do except cost money in equipment and paste and cost of MLTCC. With current base the bulb cost will be around US$25.00 (out of door with all the shipment and dead weight) and sales will be around 5$50 to 60 to take care of equipment and R & D.

Hello Masyood:

Can you please tell me where you are getting your figures for cost etc for these lights?

Have a happy holiday....................

This is the area very close to my chest and is my hobby also. I have worked in manufacturing which include my own interested with LED. The cost structure is for low volume production and includes return on R & D investment also. If you need I can walk you through. For high volume and fully automated manufacturing cost will be much lower. The costing is about two years old when I presented a paper on LED as short course in India.

Will be more than glad to share information although it is not current and further information and my work is we can vertically integrate except solder paste

Hello nvmani,

LED products are in production from single 'spot' lights to a whole array of lighting to suite your needs.

If you search for 'LED Lighting' on google, you should be given a whole lot of choices with ref' to LED's.

As follows:

LED Lighting Manufacturers.

LED Fixtures.

LED Lighting Systems.

LED Lighting Products.

LED Lighting Strips.

LED Lighting Solutions.

LED Lighting Home...........etc............

I hope this help you.............Keep us informed on what you might be doing please?

Take care and good luck..............Happy holiday

Shenzhen Zhongtian Lighting Co., Ltd (hereafter referred to Zhongtian Lighting) is a private hi-tech enterprise which conducts its business activities in LED indoor lighting R & D, manufacturing and marketing. Due to our complete after-sales service, we obtain great trust and support from clients either old or new. With its outstanding advantage in LED drivers, Zhongtian Lighting establish its reputation in the LED lighting industry here. Besides, all our products have been sent to professional lab to apply certificates and we can provide UL, CE, GS, CQC, PSE and RoHS for our clients as long as requested.

Zhongtian Lighting was established in May, 2008.Its promise locates in Xiaweiyuan Industrial Zone, Gushu 2nd Road, XixiangTown, Bao'an District, Shenzhen city. It enjoys convenient transportation: near the exit of subway on the Bao'an Ave; 5 minutes driver from the airport.

Zhongtian Lighting equips advanced electrical and photometric instruments. All its products are strictly manufactured according to the LED fixtures standards of Engergy Star LM79-08.

The product lines cover commercial lighting, household lighting and intelligent lighting.And there are over hundreds of products under dozens of products series. All products feature energy saving and eco-friendly, long lifespan and best value of money. And we provide 7/24 after sales service. Zhongtian Lighting put LED tube lights , LED spotlights, LED light bulbs , LED ceiling lamps and LED panel lights into its product catalogue. Our products are widely applied in shopping malls, office buildings, factories, schools and indoor decoration. In 2010, our LED tubes were applied in Guangzhou Asia Games. And our products sell well in EU and North America markets.

Zhongtian Optoelectroncis and Zhongtian Technology are both affiliated to Zhongtian Group. Zhongtian Technology is a professional private enterprise. It was founded in July, 2003. Its main business is adaptors R & D，manufacture, market & sales. The 9 year-old R & D team, the experienced manufacture skills, the sophisticated machines and equipments, the advanced production method…all of this lay solid foundation to new product invent and new application. Company has passed ISO 9001,CCC, CE, FCC, TLC, UL etc international and domestic quality control system and products safety certification.

via:china led tube lighting manufacturer

Regards

I have a different experience in comparing Flourocent & CFL.

Flourocents are more efficient in view than CFLs.

I have 1 Tube light 4' long 40W installed [claimed = 100W of incandecent] & 2 CFLs 28

ea [also claimed = 100W of incandecent]

At my age of 75 I feel better reading & working with tube than CFLs

Why ?

There are quite a few variables. If your fluoros are genuine 40 watt fat tubes (say GE) they are hard to beat, the 36 watt things are not much chop. The choice of colour temperature in both flouro and CCFL is critical. Daylight flouros that are fresh are great because they have enough blue for mature eyes and in CCFl choose the highest colour temp you can get say 5000 deg K. Avoid "warm white" like the plague and employ a good reflector (recessed if preferred). I have used both types of lighting to provide quality light rather than chase "savings" for quite a while. What I like about CCFL is they are not dependant on mains frequency around machinery, pair them and you should cancel zero crossings nicely. Flouros do provide a lovely spread and are only limited by strobe effect around machines. Lead lag ballasts of course overcome this but are becoming harder to find.

Now a request. I've found CCFL lamps a problem on sensor lights and find incandescents more reliable. Anyone else with some experience care to comment?

Now a request. I've found CCFL lamps a problem on sensor lights and find incandescents more reliable. Anyone else with some experience care to comment?

Can you kindly enlarge upon this?, Exactly what kind of sensor lights are you meaning, and also, please explain exactly what kind of CCFL lamps you are using, as we have sold over 150,000 CCFL lamps to our industry, and have only had minimal problems.

sincerely

Donald

Campbell Lighting Co Inc

USA/China

Donald,

Thanks for the reply. Specifically PIR with daylight switch which will no doubt be a bimetal. I think the problem is lack of a bleed resistor via the cold filament. The lamps are Par 38 etc with an E27 base. I prefer the light quality from CCFL over incandescent especially large enclosures like the Par 38 but find rapid cycling and poor light sensing with two CCFLs installed but if one is replaced with a standard Par 38 it is more stable. The rather expensive Par 38 enclosed CCFL die prematurely due to what seems to become an intermittent internal open circuit (haven't stripped any yet). I've recently tried a cheaper type of retro reflective type and one of them also seems to have failed (haven't had time to climb up to it yet). Since the sample size from a single dwelling is small I appreciate any feedback from other professionals.

I have a fair number of CCFLs installed around the premises and they are mostly reliable (enclosed fittings kill them the same as standard lamps though). My only use of LED luminaires is premade items such as torches and camping lanterns, hence the interest in the thread.

I am quite interested in high colour temp LEDs to help treat Seasonal Affective Disorder, a field of use that seems promising.

high colour temp LEDs to help treat Seasonal Affective Disorder

You should be thrilled, then, with the latest Luxeon (Rebel) or CREE (XRE) "cool white" lights. It looks like the light from a welder's arc -- too blue for indoor use by itself, at least to my eye, but fine if you mix it with a lower color temp light, or if you use it for a bicycle headlight.

Thanks & regards.

CFLs are Genuine GEC with 1 year warranty & fluorosTube-lights as well.

fluorosTube-lights is old enough with ends some what blackened & CFLs quite new, inspite I feel quite a difference.

Thanks again

Regards

I think that it is due to the length & Dia of Flouro-Tube which covers more sapce of illumination.

And one more question about LEDs' light Spectrum !

I have got lenses implanted in my both eyes; almost 10 years back in my right eye & almost 3 years back in the left eye.

Tomorrow I started working on PC without glasses & noted that the blinking LED of monitor has 2 colours; Green & Red.

I closed my left eye & it was green and with the left it was red [and is ]. Monitor is Compaq S710.

I am contacting my Eye Surgeon to ask why; but any idea from my colleagues ?

Is it not the indicator of RED colour light in so called GREEN-LED; indicator of heat energy in all LEDs?

Regards

Hello Haajee:

This is fascinating.......can I ask why you had to have the lenses on both eyes replaced?

So you see different colours with eye? Green with one and red with the other. Have you noticed any other differences between each eye?

This is a complete guess and, I will follow it up with a search, but, perhaps there was damage to a certain part of your Optic Nerve which makes this happen? Does it happen with glasses on? I wear specs and at the moment have only reading specs which make distant lights seem sparkling.

Take care and let me know if you find an answer?

Happy holiday!............

Regards

Sir due to "CATARACT" at this age.

It happened on that day & was throughout .

But the next day it was OK.

Any how I am trying to contact my doctor who operated.

What you find please let us all know

Regards

Hello Haajee:,

What do you want me to find out my friend? Can you tell me please?

Take care and have a wonderful holiday...............

It sounds as though you do not need the paper/card glasses when reading 3D comics or watching 3D Films.....very practical!!!!

Regards.

You reminded me the era of 3D Films. Thanks please see my reply to an othe friend .

Thanks & regards

I do not remember where I learned this but I think it is normal to have slight differences in the color or temp perception from one eye to the other. My left eye sees white 'cooler' or more blue and my right eye sees white 'warmer' or more red. This has been the case for me since I can remember noticing it as a child.

Human eye lens get distorted as we age and the change of focal plan and holding condition of veins in human eye. I have my family member who will see object nearer than it is and also see red lights two at two distance in night time during driving which he stopped driving in the night and this happen at age of 65+

The majority design is based on white light index on LED as well as in TV, Camera and other equipments.

LED is fun stuff I had more than hour and half invited presentation in one of the conference and my review is it is coming and will be better than candecent light in terms of saving and making our life little easier