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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Rotating Machinery

01/05/2009 1:53 PM

hi there i ve some question to be ansewred please help me in searching

1st one is :

Let's assume that you have the position of Rotating Machinery Engineer of a large size Methanol Plant which is handling flammable product; (natural gas, methanol (gas & Liquid), H2 gas, O2 (gas & Liquid).

This plant produces 3,600 ton/day of methanol and operating at designed capacity which has an important impact on the company business and shipping logistics.

You are selected as a Rotating Machinery Engineer and you will participate in the detailed engineering phase with the Main Contractor and select equipment Vendors.

Inquiry:

Please, provide your inputs to design the equipment protection philosophy (trips and alarms) for the critical rotating train composed of one steam turbine with direct driving of a gas compressor equipment, such as:

- High pressure steam turbine with Medium Pressure steam extraction and Low Pressure steam condensation. Power: > 30Mw, Speed: > 10,000 rpm < 13,000 rpm

- Centrifugal between bearings gas compressor handling synthesis gas. Delta P: 2 and Speed: > 10,000 rpm < 13,000 rpm

- Lube Oil System

- Dry Gas Seal System for the gas compressor

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#1

Re: Rotating Machinery

01/05/2009 10:20 PM

Your best bet is to go to the appropriate API standards for this, as well as consulting your OEMs for their recommendations...

Someone with Rotating Machinery experience would not be asking this question, so I assume you have been thrown into the role?

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#2

Re: Rotating Machinery

01/06/2009 5:52 AM

What you are asking is such a high details that it can not be answered in this forum. It is the part of a total project control and safety system. Pl understand that if any of your prospective interviwee is asking this he is just trying to prepare a back ground for rejection.

Our organisation manufactures a lot of components that you use, And I know that our project engg department is a huge one. If I go to any of the design engineers (even one of my experience) he will not be able to answer all. Each part/ subsystem is handled by individual teams and integrated together.

It is months work to design these.

The one who sets the parameters on the GT will not be aware of the compressor portion and so on.

And everything here again depends on various other parameters including local conditions, the parameters of the fuel/ gas , the pressures at which it is recieved from the pipeline and so on.

It is like this you design the equipments and keeping the operating parameters on view and modify some of the set points and trip points (most of the times these are standard based on the parameters but once in a while a mild tweaking is necessary)

As I have earlier also advised, concentrate on your strengths and as Steve has rightly pointed out, this is not one of them. If you want to make this as your strength you have to struggle and study and not in forums.

As a maintenance man do not try to be a designer and if you are a designer, you can not be a maintenance man. The maintenance man has all the set points in his manual and has to blindly follow them, unless and otherwise OEM allows him to.

We have faced a lot of problems in this way from our customers where the maintenance man has tried to redesign our product with catastrophical effect (fortunately only on the equipment)

Chose your path - maintenance or design, be sure and follow.

This is a sincere advise from somebody who have seen a lot of people having feet on two boats and the result.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Rotating Machinery

01/06/2009 8:05 AM

sir, i entered an interview based on that they mail me the exam and i have to solve the inquiries so i'm not entering areas that i dont know any thing of it but what i was about is a how to find the answer but you ve said you have to be a designer also be noted that i entered the interview as a maintenance engineer thanks sir for your advise because i felt the same feeling any i sew the questions

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#4

Re: Rotating Machinery

01/06/2009 11:48 AM

You seem apologetic, don;t be, and here we are not Sirs, we are all friends, trying to bring each other up to same levels, otherwise we will not be able to share ourselves. We treat you as our equal, but atleast i am unable to fathom your knowledge, and may be that's what makes me feel that you are slightly out of your depth.

Why don't you answer truthfully (why bother not to answer when there is nothing to be lost ?)

Inform, as a maintenance engineer that I applied for , we do not involve in the setting of the design parameters. These values are set by the project consultants and the OEM suppliers. The set values are as per the O&M manuals of the specific project/OEM supplier.

However as per my existing experience , for a plant of ... capacity, thes following are the safety features, normal parameters, alarm and trip point.

A) Gas Turbine .....

b) GT generator ....

c) gas Compressor ....

...

The honesty may win you the day.

In addition if you study these features in your plant and may be in a few other plants of your future, you will be teaching us and we will be getting taught.

Be confident and be sincere and in your field be quick. As the person handling this function as well as ex-quality man, this is what i learnt and expect from my team. For a maintenance man of your field, this is of utmost consequence - you have to act fast, very fast before your plant explodes.

May be the prospective employer is testing you whether you are going to experiment with his equipment.

I remember that in my job interview i had very confidently told something, that I later realised might have an entire wrong perspective too. I don't now remember what was it. Even in correct perspective it was not an exact answer, but like any greenhorn, just completed postgrad form one of the premier engg colleges i was so confident, that after a hesitation, the interviewer passed on to next. later i knew that the man was one of the top most authority in the country on the subject and was a special advisor to the gov.

And even in the previous year in another one (we still have to get interviewed in our grade changes) i was in an opposite field. here I was in strong turf, but the interviwer was not, but as sometimes happen that he was adamant that I was wrong. Here be polite, and exit the mess by a polite, i will check up and come back. (most of the time they don't expect you to come back any way, and i at least never did) but the politeness - also won the day as did the last one.

I can recount a number of cases where I got problems and had to search out the solutions and that is by going to the root. Remember 5Ws

If a GT trip is at 7500 RPM why ? when the RPM is 7300 and go on

Best of luck and never get scared by your tests. This question may be your chance to improve yourselves.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Rotating Machinery

01/06/2009 12:58 PM

hi friends

i'm so happy to have friends that i can exchange informations with them

I feel confident when i discuss with you an issue it really change my thoughts

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#6

Re: Rotating Machinery

01/06/2009 1:40 PM

Please, provide your inputs to design the equipment protection philosophy

The equipment protection philosophy is four fold:

1)Its most critical function is to safeguard the persons operating and around the equipment being operated;

2) it should minimize the possibility of physical damage to the equipment being operated due to a fault anywhere in the system; (this means it must be comprehensive)

3) It must also minimize the possibility of and immediately initiate corrective response due to abnormal operation of the eequipment;

4) It should be simple, yet must operate positively and instantaneously.

Because these systems are complex and made up of many disparate components, selection of componetry must be based on quality and reliability and not lowest price; similarly, the software or process that coordinates these devices must be well thought out and assure that the functional status of each component is known and within standard parameters. "quid custodiet ipsos custodes- Who will guard the guardians comes to mind in this case.

Redundancy is recommended.

The investment in protection systems is an insurance policy on the high already spent equipment costs. As these systems must operate flawlessly when called upon, to protect lives and save equipment, the urge to buy cheap must be ignored.

It goes without saying that the fastest acting technology is the better choice.

But reliability must be king. While protection systems may seldom or never be called upon in a well managed and maintained plant, their reliability must be verified. This means that you must have in place a means of test and a schedule to test that does not subject the entire works to the test. Or to quote former U.S. president Ronald Reagan, "Trust but verify."

milo

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Rotating Machinery

01/06/2009 1:58 PM

That earns you a GA for clarity and prioritization.

I would also propose that most often these projects are put out for tender, and then subsequently they are stamped by engineers who are going to take responsibility for the reliability and performance of the systems design. This is especially a good idea if you (OP) are underqualified.

chris

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#8

Re: Rotating Machinery

01/06/2009 7:46 PM

It sounds like you are applying for a job that requires more experience than you have. You can lie, but getting the job is half the battle. How do you expect to keep it once in?

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