1998 Dodge Cummins Diesel - Automatic Transmission Problems

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This story has been discussed here before. See http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/26231#comment276081

What I will say is this. If your trans in going bad, You have two choices.

1. Do nothing until it will not move.
2. Try to prevent it from getting to an unusable condition.

For option 1 just well, do nothing.

For option 2 you should change the fluid, and install a new filter. If the filter is restricting the flow of fluid, the fluid pressure will fall off. Low pressure will not allow the clutch packs to grip tight enough, and may slip. If a clutch slips, that clutch pack will were off the friction material very quickly.

If your clutch packs are worn out, nothing put replacing them will make the trans work correctly.If the seals that are used to apply the clutch packs are worn, allowing the fluid to not apply the clutch as tightly, fresh fluid will soften them up and allow them to seal better. there are also seal swell chemicals that will help do that.

One story that is out there is the one about changing the fluid, and never being able to drive the vehicle again till the trans was rebuilt. The only thing that cause that is if the transmission seals are worn sufficiently to allow air to enter the area behind the seals, and when you start up the vehicle, the new oil just bypasses the seals, and the clutch will not expand. I have encountered this once. In that case the old transmission was allowed to sit with no oil pan on overnight. To cure it we flooded the transmission with way too much fluid, and added a viscosity booster ( think of the old honey like STP ). An hour later the truck was driving again. We did not rebuild that transmission for over a year. And that was an overloaded F350 with a C6.

And if it were to die in your driveway, the trans was bad already right?

Good luck.

I think I think I'd be asking myself why would my mechanic be turning away work??

I think your mechanic is telling you the damage is done and just ride it out then replace the Tranny. Going a little over the maintenance due service time frame 10,000-15,000 miles is not prudent but 100,000 is spilled milk.

Taken in context the lack of proper maintenance will cause undue wear upon the clutches because of fluid breakdown. The filter will become filled with clutch material and soon after the front pump will begin to show complications such as delayed shifts or no use of third gear etc.. Replacing the filter and adding new fluid at this point is moot; the fluid pressure will increase and the clutch material will dissolve clogging the filter rendering the Tranny useless.

Count your blessing the 212,000 miles is about full life time of the Tranny anyway

What troubles are starting to show up as this will point to what area of the transmission is causing the problem.

It is an intermittent problem. Occassionally, the truck has a difficult time climbing even a gentle grade or has trouble getting up to speed. Sometimes, letting off the throttle and then reapplying the throttle will rectify this. This problem used to be infrequent, but it has gotten more frequent in the last 3 months. It doesn't shift harshly and never seems to have trouble starting from a standstill. Could this be the third gear and OD problem mentioned in this thread?

Maybe a worn and in need of adjustment linkage and/or a leak in the inter-cooler system, check clamps and hoses.

With this new information, I can think of two reasons for the slow acceleration. 1) Up-shifting too soon, or not downshifting when it should. Or, 2) not up-shifting when it should, staying in a lower gear too long. Gasoline engined Chrysler transmissions used nothing but throttle position to control up and down shifts. If repairs are done to throttle linkages, it is easy to get them out of adjustment. If the diesels are the same, you could check it against the factory settings.

That is probably the best answer for that old transmission fluid problem that I have ever heard. Thanks and a GA to you.

Thanks for the excellent info. I have never understood why old fluid shouldn't be replaced until now. I'm going to do exactly what you suggested. As you said, I am extremely blessed to have gotten this far with the Dodge transmission.....especially since it is a work truck driven by a variety of different drivers.

Which brings up two other questions. I have a Nissan Titan with 72,000 miles and a commercial Isuzu NPR diesel truck with 90,000 miles, both with automatic transmissions and never had the transmission fluid changed. I don't have any good excuses and won't be doing that again, but is it okay to change the fluid in them?

We had a Chrysler Town & Country mini van that we bought used with about 30,000 miles on it and had the transmission flushed by one of the "fast" lube garages when it had about 90,000 miles on it and had to have it rebuilt 1,500 miles later. I learned a tough lesson about letting non-experienced techs work on it and should have learned my lesson about changing the fluid at regular intervals.

My daughter bought a 1999 VW New Beetle with an 01M automatic recently. It had 87,000 miles on it and started shifting rough. Since it didn't have a fill tube or dipstick, I dropped the pan, changed the filter, cleaned everything up and re-filled it using the Bentley repair manual procedures. It has been going great for the last 1,500 miles, but now I'm wondering if I did the right thing? There is no telling if the transmission ever had the fluid changed before. Also, VW claims that it should never have to be changed, but I don't believe that.

After all of this rambling, my main question is: At what point do I decide not to change the fluid if the regular fluid changes haven't been done? I hope that it isn't too late on the Nissan and the Isuzu.

When do you want to have a clean filter in your vehicles? A transmission will die if left with a restrictive filter in it. You need to get that filter cleaned. New fluid, or old fluid, viscosity booster or not. you can't ignore it.

What color is the fluid? If it is still bright red, it should still be good. The cloudier it becomes, the more clutch dust it has absorbed.

I hate to admit it, but we had been so busy over the last 4 years that I neglected the transmissions. I know better, but I didn't even think about the fluid. I am hoping to find out if it is okay to replace the fluid in the Isuzu (90,000 miles) and the Titan (72,000 miles) since neither has had a transmission fluid change. We will definitely change the filters on all three trucks. The fluid in the Dodge has gotten to a brownish color (so has the brake fluid). Should have been black after 212,000 miles! I'll need to check the fluid in the other two.

At what point do I decide not to change the fluid if the regular fluid changes haven't been done?

BobC is correct in relation to the filter and oil. So I'm just reemphasising that you should inspect the oil condition, which should indicate to leave it alone or replace the filter. Inspect the fluid on the stick in sun light or very good light. Even if the fluid is still red check to see that there isn't black or brown small deposits adhering to the stick. It's usually clutch material. If the oil is brown or yellowish, specially with deposits, a good indication to pull the pan. You will also be able to see black deposit residue on your fingers or rag as you swipe the stick. It's really only critical if there is a significant amount on the stick. There will always be some from normal wear. Keep in mind the re-using the oil method above on the higher mileage vehicles. Restricted filters will cause premature failer so replacing the filter is often not a bad idea, it's just, as discussed, when replacing the fluid with the new detergent fluids.

Just another aside, NEVER use silicone to adhere the gasket to the pan or specially the case. Some models have a fluid pressure release hole that can get plugged and create premature damage. Not to mention loose silicone will constrict operations in the valve body and ad to plugging up the filter to mention a couple issues with it. If you're having trouble keeping the gasket to the pan, use Petroleum jelly or we use assemply Trans Jell to hold it in place while you get the first few bolts in. The jell that may get into the inside pan area dissipate in the fluid. You can just wipe off the jell from the outside easily.

Thank you for those tips. I'll make sure we keep silicone away from the pan. Good idea. We are going to make a stab at changing it this week.

We just developed another problem with the Dodge that I'll submit in another post that is currently more serious than the transmission. Hint: Electrical with demons.

What about the thread, and thin strands of wire? What willl I do with them?

I think I posted this on the other thread but I've taken several trannies and changed out the tranny fluid with Hydrotex Hy-Torque®

I'm fairly sure I am the first to use it in dry fluid clutch trannies and in automotive automatics. It worked even in burnt clutch in a Ford C6 and GM Metric C1000(?) for another 60k plus miles.

I change filters and flush the torque converter then run until the fluid good and warm then change it again.

The Hy-Torque runs to heat like the old Duralube commercials. It also has seal softeners/reconditioners.

I also change all my new and used trannies to it if the viscosity is close enough.

My Dad and I used to sell the stuff but we haven't had anything to do with them for many years. Still can't beat a few of their products though. Don't know about any of the new ones.

Brad

Is there any danger to running a fluid such Hy-Torque instead of a typical DOT3 or 4 fluid?

Dot 3, or Dot 4 is used to describe brake fluid. DO NOT put brake fluid in your transmission.

Read the approval lists on the Hy-Torque container to see if it meets the required standards for your transmission manufacturer.

Well, there is a good reason why it is better not to make a comment in the middle of the night! I just finished changing the brake fluid in my daughter's VW last weekend and DOT 4 was on my mind. I would never put brake fluid in the tranny, I'll be editing that post when I can log into CR4 using a PC instead of my phone!

Might I further suggest that you NOT put ATF in the brake system.

I've ran it in trannies that would not work otherwise. I currently run it in Ford, Gm, and Dodge rigs. I have used it for 30 years with good results.

I have used it with slipping burnt clutches in Ford and GM and drove another 50,000 miles before having to rebuild them.

Never thought to try it for brake fluid

Have used it for heat problems in hydraulic systems which is what it was designed for.

Brad

Hi fella's, am new at this and know nothing. Just found out my transmission on my 98 dodge diesel is said to be pretty much dead. Did get some estimate's but they don't vary that much. I nearly fainted when they told me who much it costs. I'll fill you in on what has happened. Started about a yr ago when the fast oil change place I go to ask when was the last time I changed trans fluid, told then never. They changed the filter and fluid. A couple mo's after the truck started having trouble changing gears between 40 and 50 mph. Then just yesterday started on the road and the truck wouldn't go beyond 20 mph. Have just over 100,000 mi on it and was surprised it went out so soon. I have kept up on all other maintenance and it hasn't given me any other problems. The shop said the torque coming apart and valves badly stopped up. Told me that I should always go to a transmission specialist to do any oil or transmission changes. Does this sound right? I'm driving blind here and hubby is scratching his head too as he knows about as much as I. Quoted me a price of $2,995.00 and 3 yr 50,000 mile warrenty. Merry Christmas to me! I guess I just want to know that I'm know getting ripped off. Makes me want to take a class in diesel repair, but have no interest. HELP

Welcome; as you can see this is an old forum thread. It happen to pop up on my list. Unfortunately there really isn't much you can do at this point but get it to a REPUTABLE transmission specialist source. The pricing here for that would be about $1800 to 2,500 with converter and install. So 3k plus seems high but prices do vary depending on what part of the country and city you live in. Something may have very well come apart although that is low mileage for that vehicle. You may have to bite the bullet and get some one you feel you can trust to give you an honest answer about what truly may be wrong. Often, if the converter Sprag has come apart the vehicle will barely move but usually not much or any damage will happen to the unit, and if there is it will be in the pump surfaces. Converter failure is a common problem with the A518's. Good luck with it.

Thank you so much for the reply. At this point am just looking for anything or anyone to help. I live in Fort Worth so you can imagine the amount of trucks around here. I just find it hard to believe that in this economy and where there are so many Dodge's being used for heavy hauling of stock that it would cost this much to repair or replace, whatever. My sister has had her 1500 rebuilt 3 times now. The last time was at 200,000 and now she is well over 300,000 and has had no more problems. The last time tho she took it to an old guy who just work's out of his house and she said the trick is to drill holes in the casings. Must have worked. What I can't figure out is why don't they do that where they manufacture these transmissions in the first place if that is indeed the answer. I do know that if you don't know a thing about it, these repair places seem to know that and seem to want to talk over your head till you just say give, and then hand them your wallet. Like I said before, seem's strange that a repair should cost this much in this economy and where there's obviously so many heavy trucks being used. Can anyone tell me if that O/D button on the end of the gear shift would have anything to do with the problem. I've never understood how that worked and nobody else seem's to know either.

The OD button is normally on the "on" position when started. I always suggest to customers to leave it off in constant stop and go traffic where you rarely see 50 mph. For Over Drive to engage and disengage just as it gets up to speed then the vehicle slowing down aging just creates more work and friction than necessary. The dash light will come on when it's on and off when off.

There are many upgrades from both the dealers and aftermarket companies like Sonix, Transtar, Gil Younger etc, that include better clutches, upgraded one way rollers, bands, Kolene steels and the list goes on. Again, look for a good transmission company and of course try getting referrals for one first. The best is to ask friends and neighbors specially if your new to the area. Take the time to do that and you'll find the consistency in a commonly referred person or company. As far as drilling the case, news to me, Valve body and channel plate in very specific places, sure. there are MANY ways to improve with good parts and physical modifications any transmission.

Again good luck.

HI fellas, back again. Just got home from the transmission shop $2995.92 poorer. Did get a warrenty on it. I'm still in shock I think. Someone tell me if this sounds correct. Going to try to read this invoice but all in shorthand so bear with me. Under description says OHK, manual valve, up band, kickdown hi-perf 62 up ray in. pro series in. Bushing, pump (w/oil grove) 71-up bushing, C6, E4OD ext housing also fits A500,A518,A727 washer, A518/A618 4 TAB I.D. 2.250 in. rear planet 94-up. Does that make any sense? The next page goes on to say words like washer, elc/500/618 fwd dr um selective 3 tab. 083 in. 90-up. It goes on and on with words like sprag then some numbers O/D clutch sensor vss output (OEM) sensor, gov. press. 4 pin rect, more numbers torque converter, low stall heavy duty ground strap. I'm not sure if this was what was wrong or what they replaced. If this were a horse I could figure it out, I'm just so aggravated! Can someone put this in laymans terms for me please! Oh forgot to tell you I'm the one who wrote in earlier with the 98 dodge diesel that wouldn't get over 20mph and had to have the transmission rebuilt and wanted some info on this. Does anyone think this was a fair price? I just have no idea.

Is what 50 years of experience worth anything and some of the things that work they don't know or won't tell you ?

1. Cold weather shift problems. The fluid deposits a film inside the transmission and the valves began to drag until it gets warm.

Put one bottle of rubbing alcohol in a warm transmission and drive a short distance and let it shift through all the gears. Then drain and change the filter. This has fixed several transmission for me. Do not put 2 bottles in it because the fluid becomes so thin the convertor seal will leak. What alcohol left in it will evaporate.

2. Electronic controlled transmissions. They is a rheostat TPS in the throttle linkage which tells the ECM what to do. This is the item that fails most often which causes erratic shifts.. Answers to this is have the codes scanned. If you are one that likes to keep the engine clean then you are likely to have this problem. I just fixed my 94 Ram by taking it off and washing it out with Zep penetrating oil. The switch was full of diesel dirt and oil. Now it shifts great.

Tom

I am reading a list of parts that SEEM to have been replaced in your transmission. That list includes a lot of mechanical parts that are expensive to buy new. The re-builder seems to have picked through the available parts that were used by Chrysler over the years on different applications, as opposed to using all components that were used when your transmission was built. Remember the warning about rear planetaries? You and I can only hope that he used parts that feels will improve the quality of your transmission. This relies on the knowledge of the re-builder.

Another hope is that the re-builder used new parts. That speaks of the honesty of the re-builder. Common practice for re-builders is to buy used transmissions from junk yards, or other sources. These transmissions provide a good source for damaged transmission parts that they need to use to replace damaged parts in customer's transmissions. But these parts are not new, nor should they be priced as new.

It seems that you had a lot of damaged hard mechanical parts that needed to be replaced. If you had shopped for an exchange transmission for your truck, you should have been able to save a good bit of money on hard parts, IN MY OPINION. But then the quality of that transmission would still be a question.

Lets all hope that the cost of rebuilding your transmission will insure many years of trouble-free driving, and that your work truck continues to be able to earn a good living for you and your business.

A person's knowledge, and labor is worth what another person is willing to pay for it.

Update:

My Dad's Dodge/Cummins tranny had problems.

They replaced the tranny but still had issues and was getting worse.

Turns out the sensors electrical harness was very sensitive to signal corruption. Once rerouted had no further issue. Spent $5,000 on a tranny he did not need.