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Water Surface Tension

02/24/2009 8:12 PM

I am a greenhorn scientist an have noticed by accident in my driveway that perfectly flat water in sunlight gives off north to south wave like motion (similar to smoke in an air tunnel) at my northern CA residence on a reflective surface that was nearby. I suppose that this may have something to do with the rotation of the planet and the gravitational pull thereof. Am I correct?

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#1

Re: water surface tension

02/24/2009 9:46 PM

I think you should go inside to smoke that stuff!

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: water surface tension

02/25/2009 10:50 PM

There's no stupid questions, there is only stupid people.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: water surface tension

02/25/2009 11:05 PM

I would suggest either:

There are no stupid questions, there are only stupid people.

Or:

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people.

Or:

There are no stupid questions, but the world is full of stupid people.

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: water surface tension

02/25/2009 11:09 PM

You beat me to it.

Mike

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#18
In reply to #5

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 2:14 AM

There are no stupid people but only stupid questions.

There are no stupid questions but only stupid answers.

I think the latter is most prevalent.

What he is observing is an indication and a very visible one, of a micro climate. Get an infra red sensing camera and it would help a lot do see what is going on. You could even find that the 'climate' around your hot cuppa can be made visible. Have one out side!

Just dipping here, with out getting the line wet, Ky.

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#28
In reply to #18

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 10:49 AM

"What he is observing is an indication and a very visible one, of a micro climate. Get an infra red sensing camera and it would help a lot do see what is going on. You could even find that the 'climate' around your hot cuppa can be made visible. Have one out side!"

On occasion, the clouds in a cup of hot coffee will demonstrate the micro-climate conditions. An infra-red camera is not required if the "evaporising" water condenses near the surface of the hot coffee. "Micro-breezes" will cause the visible small layer of condensate fog to swirl, move and change shapes.

On a side note, Readers' Digest used to state to learn new words you needed to repeat them several times after you first hear them. Today I am woring on "evaporising".

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#26
In reply to #5

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 9:42 AM

There are no stupid questions, there are only stupid people.

This is an example of the dreaded comma splice. The two clauses are independent (each could be a sentence on its own), so they should be separated by a semicolon rather than a comma.

There are no stupid questions; there are only stupid people.

There are no stupid questions. There are only stupid people.

There are no stupid questions, but there are many stupid people.

There are loads of stupid questions and loads of stupid people.

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#39
In reply to #5

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 11:17 PM

IMHO, the only stupid questions are the ones you should already know the answer to, or you know how to find the answer. But then, people forget, or they might not know that they know, or they might not know how much they know. Also, they might know that they know, but they want to know if anyone else knows, so they ask.

Ya know?

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#7
In reply to #2

Re: water surface tension

02/25/2009 11:08 PM

There are no stupid questions, there are only stupid people.

or

Ther're no stupid questions, there are only stupid people.

Some of us are just illiterate.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: water surface tension

02/25/2009 11:12 PM

My favorite bumper sticker:

Illiterate? write for free help. Now its a billboard.

probably North Canton, though. Maybe Massillon.

milo

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: water surface tension

02/25/2009 11:55 PM

Hey Milo,

How can you tell it's somewhere in NE Ohio?

Mike

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 12:08 AM

Because I worked with people in both places mentioned for a while. And since you're in Akron, I thought it would make you smile...

milo"Tell Chrissy Hynde I said Hey!"

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 12:22 AM

Hi Milo,

I've only been here for 3 months, being dislocated from Wilmington, NC - so I don't know the area that well. I do know however, that Chrissy Hynde is from here (only because a fellow worker mentioned it to me 6 weeks ago).

Your post did make me smile, but I was thinking more about the North Carolina redneck population.... funny and yet not funny .

Thanks!

Mike

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#20
In reply to #9

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 2:47 AM

The old sign writer dread Mate. It should spell this way. Or.....?.....?

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: water surface tension

02/25/2009 11:12 PM

Re:

"Ther're no stupid questions"

I don't think GUEST is ready for contractions.

You are right, of course, it works too.

LL

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#37
In reply to #10

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 11:04 PM

S!

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#32
In reply to #7

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 8:09 PM

Good save on the grammar. You DO know, Yoda wasn't the originator of that quote, right?

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#35
In reply to #32

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 8:33 PM

Know that, I do not

The Dark Side I sense in you!

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#50
In reply to #2

Re: water surface tension

03/02/2009 6:32 PM

I prefer: There are no stupid questions; but there are many inquisitive idiots.

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#19
In reply to #1

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 2:44 AM

I think we need to learn Mr Lynlynch, so reserve the jokes for some other forum. Thanx.

"What you see is what you get. What you do not see gets you."

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#23
In reply to #19

Re: water surface tension

02/26/2009 5:14 AM

llewxam

I think we need to learn Mr Lynlynch, so reserve the jokes for some other forum. Thanx.

"What you see is what you get. What you do not see gets you."

You mean to teach him? Us, all together, need to advise him to be more smarterer somewhere else?

What you think, you are handing out, is what traps you. What I take as advice, I do, but not by being told/indoctrinated to do so. I can't see you and I don't think you will get me. Just some thing wrong with your approach Mate!

Sorry for being so abrupt Lynlynch, maybe its Ray and he wants in? She'll be right, Ky.

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#3

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/25/2009 10:56 PM

i think you are just seeing a mirage...

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#4

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/25/2009 10:57 PM

If you noticed it visually, a camera would too, so please post a picture.

Just to give you some landmarks for thought, if the planet is spinning about a north south axis, wouldnt we expect waves/motion to be eats west?

what is orienttion of drive way, sun (it apparently moves east to west)and puddle to reflected upon surface.

Your wind tunnel idea may be exactly that if wind is coming up the driveway north and south, thus creating the waves and hence what you notice in the reflections.

A picture is worth alot of words, and my compliment s to you for 1) observing; 2) NOTICING;3) thinking; 4) inquiring.

You may be a green horn, but you have shown the signs of critical thought process.

how bout that picture?

milo

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#33
In reply to #4

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 8:16 PM

Just wondering what west tastes like?

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#38
In reply to #33

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 11:10 PM

Chili, barbecue, roast beef...

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#6

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/25/2009 11:07 PM

Disturbence in the air because of water evaporising maybe?

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 12:02 AM

That's cool! A new word! Evaporising - the visual effect, usually a shimmering wavy thing that can be observed rising above the surface of a liquid as it is evaporating!

Mike

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#17
In reply to #12

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 1:16 AM

Your just jealous of my creative skills with the Anglais Language

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#36
In reply to #12

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 11:02 PM

American English language is your "forte", which other languages do you know Mikerho?

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#40
In reply to #36

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 11:18 PM

Baiting me only proves you're being disingenuous.

If, on the outside chance you are being sincere, I know no other languages well, though I have dabbled in Greek, Latin and Yodaese.

Mike

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 11:44 PM

Now you are being a bit Yodacious. The language is called Yodanese and you don't dabble in it but Yoddel. That's it, I'm out of here.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/27/2009 12:12 AM

OK - good on you mate!

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/27/2009 12:44 AM

And now to the tune of obla di obla da:

Yodel di

Yodel da

life goes on

yeah yeah

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/27/2009 1:01 AM

and if want some fun, you do

ob la di bla da take, you will

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#14

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 12:19 AM

The ripples would be more like ground vibrations from you walking up to the puddle, your dog happily jumping in front of you wanting to play, minor earth tremors that you cannot perceive, a very slight breeze of air running across the surface, the air pressure wave as you approach the puddle dispersing as it passes the puddle, a car/truck/train passing tot he north/south of your location?

These waves would be the same as what makes liquad mirror telescope mirrors problematic in suburban areas

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#16

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 12:33 AM

Where's Ray?

CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's me, Ray. Open up, man, I got the stuff.
(More knocks)
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's me, Ray, man. Open up, I got the stuff.
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: It's, Ray, man. Open up, I think the cops saw me come in here.
(More knocks)
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's, Ray, man. Will you open up, I got the stuff with me.
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: Ray, man. Open up.
CHONG: Ray?
CHEECH: Yeah, Ray. C'mon, man, open up, I think the cops saw me.
CHONG: Ray's not here.
CHEECH: No, man, I'm Ray, man.
(Sharp knocks at the door)
CHEECH: Hey, c'mon, man.
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's Ray, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me.
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: Ray, man. Open up.
CHONG: Ray?
CHEECH: Yeah, Ray.
CHONG: Ray's not here.
CHEECH: What the hell? No, man, I am Ray, man. Will you...
(More knocks)
CHEECH: C'mon! Open up the door, will you? I got the stuff with me, I think the cops saw me.
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: Oh, what the hell is it...c'mon. Open up the door! It's Ray!
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: Ray! R-A-Y! Will you open up the goddam door!
CHONG: Ray?
CHEECH: Yeah, Ray!
CHONG: Ray?
CHEECH: Right, man. Ray. Now will you open up the door?
CHONG: Ray's not here.

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#24
In reply to #16

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 9:38 AM

All you people are cracking me up! A great sense of humor is a good sign of intelligence. But I have to comment on the subject a little more. Birds have been suspected to be able to see wind turbulences and thus use them to gain altitude when in flight. Food for thought.

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#31
In reply to #24

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 7:33 PM

I doubt that, they don't seem to notice the inlet turbulence on a jetliner turbine engine, i guess that like ants they can sense the difference in airpressure and act accordingly

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#29
In reply to #16

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 11:20 AM

That "cracks" me up!

"What about" Oh, NO, he stuck it in his eye man!"

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#34
In reply to #29

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 8:20 PM

Earache, my eye!

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#21

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 2:47 AM

The slightest vibration causes minute ripples which diffuse the reflected light, giving the ripple effect.

In addition, evaporation gives a different air composition immediately above the water. This layer has a different refractive index to air. Slight movements of your head will appear to cause the light reflected off the nearby surface to appear to ripple. (It is impossible to hold you head still enough to avoid this)

Why it seems to be only N/S motion is probably related to the particular geometry of your location.

Glad you noticed and brought it to everyone's attention.

A few photos of the effect and the general location would be helpful.

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#25
In reply to #21

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 9:41 AM

Good comment and I will get a few photos.

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#22

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 3:35 AM

"I am a greenhorn scientist ..."

We all start somewhere, no one should expect any one to know what "we" assume to be common sense. We should encourage people to be inquisitive!

I totally agree with sceptic and Snaketails that there is no such thing as perfectly flat water, certainly not in a suburban area. Talking about liquid mirror telescopes, even glass ripples due to its viscosity. You will see that if you look at very old windows. It probably is not so prevalent in the modern hardened glass but even there you might see some "flow" in time (?).

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#27

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 9:49 AM

Why would the rotation of the Earth produce North - South wave motion? Perhaps you've discovered an elementary earthquake detector?

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#30

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/26/2009 12:22 PM

The inquiring mind is AWESOME. The serious comments were great. I totally loved the humor tho, and after a morning with a dead car battery I lMAO. Thanks for both sides of the spectrum. :-)

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#45

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/27/2009 8:54 AM

Just don't align any symbols that may be surrounding the puddle, or step into the puddle...it is likely a Star Gate.

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#46

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/27/2009 10:18 AM

He said he's a 'greenhorn'! Cut the guy some slack.

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#47

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/27/2009 10:39 AM

What you observed it's probably a microscale replica of what generates the waves in any larger body of water, the interaction of two fluids, water and air in motion.

Small puddle +Light wind+No depth=Ondulation.

Ocean size body of water+Fast wind+Depth=Storm size waves.

By the way, perfectly flat water is round ;)

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#49
In reply to #47

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/28/2009 1:21 PM

GA

I like the "perfectly flat water is round"!

There are no flat spots on the globe, as viewed from space.

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#48

Re: Water Surface Tension

02/27/2009 11:40 AM

Now I've stopped laughing, are we sure it is just water???

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