How Can CR4 Help Inventors?

Hi tinker

GA from me. I have only found the time to get back on to this thread.

Illusion, delusion, lack of knowledge in the disciplines involved make or brake things. Assistance is a very rare commodity and I congratulate you on your willingness to support others. Not only back then but in the now. I am still the same, so, if a Saturday nighter turns up and it makes sense what he/she is proposing I am on the case. No rewards in sight just the shear joy of tinkering really.

Very encouraging and informative comments for the people that have to know more about these things.

Good to be here, Ky.

Thank You,

Magnetic Island sounds like an intriguing location, must look it up on Google earth. It is nice to get a GA when I consider the average number of GAs to the amount of posts from some very smart people on this site.

Best Regards

Your welcome

On Google earth you will find this from a top view. It is in Picnic Bay. What a round about! Civil engineering gone over the top. At least we don't have a traffic light on the Island so that helps. BTW that's Australia over there, the big brother to the west.

Do you have any lawyer friends that could help out with the inventors corner?

All the best from here, Ky.

Hello KY,

You posted a response to me in the time that I replied to your post. Now I have also been answering ChrisQ288 reply to the poster during the time you replied. I seem to be on the same track as both of you. More to follow, I'd suppose.

I have no response to the patent attorney question other than to say that the first Firm we used for my Min Invasive Back Surgery Tools, relied on my hand sketches, cad drawings and patent description much more than they should have and charged way too much. One crappy drawing (unusual for me !!) was included in the final ap to the Patent Office until I corrected it, 'astounding money for jam '.

A new firm took over after 24 months into the process and seem to be better. I gave everything away for a low percentage, I am ashamed to say" 1/2 a loaf syndrome" guided that. I did not deal directly with the patent attorney as my low percentage was so I would not have to pay for patenting.

I had pleasant news the day after I wrote my first diatribe on patenting on Wed nesday last. A large Bio Company wants to pay a stingy royalty for the invention. This is not a lump sum but a killer trickle charge and there is a caveat. 'no royalty on improvements they make'. You may understand the basis of my comments to ChrisQ288 a little better now.

Regards for now.

Hello,

I checked it out on Google earth. Looks as good as it sounds. Cook certainly named lots of places, your island after some compass problems? Liked the Curlews on the beach north west of you.

You are approximately 7,052.36 miles from me give or take 10 miles. Crazy huh! The closest curlew to me is ~ 2 miles and the closest Koala is in SF Zoo 27 miles.

Bye for now

To add a few tidbits to what 2tinker said . . .

There was once a man in the textile machinery business who held his method of manufacturing certain, hard-to-make parts secret. No other textile machinery manufacturers ever figured out how he did it. He did not patent his inventions.

If your invention(s) is electronic, the easiest way to protect it is to use programmable gate arrays, etc. The input/output function is not always easy to figure out.

You're not talking about financial help, are you?

There is some stuff which you might find interesting in this thread.

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32082/Select-Your-Favourite-Invention

Thank you Randall

I was the OP back then and had a response from CR4 Admin that stated: there would be an "inventors corner" created in a couple of months. There have been some very encouraging developments between a few of the participants on this thread and only time will tell what the out come is going to be. To keep the bean counters out as long as possible has been of assistance but that is because we are smarter than we were yesterday. Not to mention the constructive spirit that rules the hoist.

The inventor has to be subject to merciless interrogation from any corner and if he blinks he is dead in the water. Asking for money is the last thing you want to do! Appreciating help is what it is all about. Being ready for the onslaught of success, or delusions there of, is as hard as getting the Beatles back together not to mention having had to form them in the first place.

There is no such thing as applying for the position of a genius, never mind the application forms for government grants. The people with spanners and diagnostic tools in their hands will rule, in the end.

There is a lot to read in this thread and there is hardly a sentence that is not of importance to any inventor. Patients is a requisite to learning, finding comrades by the wayside is like Manna. We shall overcome!

Were is bloody Sparkstation NZ when you need him?

Randall, I could not give you a GA because it was a GS (Good Suggestion) Admin will find a way to make a difference one day (Hi Chris. L)

All the best, Ky.

PS: I have tried to contact sparKy but had no response. Should I worry?

Mr.Yesyen

I would like to appreciate your spirit of having invented some useful engineering product/process,which is confirmed for performence.Being an inventer[3patents filed so far]it is my wish to share and clear your mis conceptions on patenting in India.Over all PATENT system ,irrespective of countries,is a protection to the inventor on ownership of the invention.Have you done any patent search, that your invention is novel,inventive and of usefulness practically. so as to render specific advantages over existing product/service?

* How many patents have you filed so far and found that the INDIAN system is ineffective.

*If you want to understand the patent process ,educate yourself from somebody who have already done it.

*If you browse thro' web sites ,you will get lot of tips on how to right a patent,Indian and International patents,claims writing[which is the smartest aspect of patent drafting]formating,required attachments.

*Indian government is doing a generous service to educate and promote inventors[formal and gross route inventors]very nominal fees for individuals,competitions,awareness workshops etc,which you should contact the right channel including sending enquiry mails to patent offices.

*Apart from just inventions,the inventor has to properly protect via patent,decide to sell or to exploit for his own enterprise etc,which calls for a sound analysis of market opportunities.The INDIAN government has so many funding schemes and support programmes for promising inventions which can result in enterprise/employment generations.

*Be optimistic,clear and smart in your project plan,because you are the 'MOTHER OF YOUR INVENTION BABY'

Best wishes

S.Udhayamarthandan.

Dt;19/03/2009

CR4 help inventors by merely existing

.... Most of the suggestions I have read in this and other thread are well intended, however, nothing can prepare you for the dedication needed to push a idea into marketplace.

My brother and I are not just fortunate to have accomplished what we have.. We are smart, and well suited for the task despite having very few resources.

some day.. we will get to more of our ideas, but all agreements made will be on our own terms.

..I think the biggest problem with getting new ideas developed.. is that most of the ideas are crap to begin with.

focus groups are great, but they have problems I don't have time to discuss today..

Hello,

I checked out your site, pretty cool. I would have directed the questioner there, if I had only known. Circumstances drive inventors to handle things the way they do or must. Sounds like you have it totally together.

The most curious thing happened the day after my slightly cynical diatribe. I got a call about the Min Invasive Back Surgery Tools I designed.

We now have a med to hot early stage commitment from a Bio Science Giant - a direct competitor of one who said 3 years ago that they would buy, if it was used twice in surgery and Patented but did not come thru.

The new Bio Co. will pay a stingy royalty and they will own any improvements that they make and not include that in the % royalty. Hurray for inventors in a position to go it alone, who may avoid the abuse most suffer, they are few and far between.

Good Luck being independent.

In response to the original question, I have an idea to bounce off you all, before making any requests of CR4.

How about this scenario... You have an invention, you would like to get input or advice on, here at CR4. It is special type of thread, where you post only an attractive headline (and stats), and CR4 will present a non-disclosure agreement (written by you) to anyone requesting access.

Once the random user has read and agreed to your NDA (clicking on radio button shows consent, just like when you install software) then they are given access to your thread. CR4 tracks users by their IP address, so there is no reason that this can't be sufficient for most purposes.

I think that when creating your thread, the classification system of groups and tags will help users to figure out whether a particular thread will be of interest to them. (eg: group: electronics, tags: computers, motherboards)

We will have to consult with CR4, but if the owner of the invention (also IP tracked) signs an agreement with CR4, declaring CR4 has no liability, then I think the entire onus for security will lie with the inventor.

I think that if you have any super-secret inventions, maybe the internet won't be the most secure realm, but for most applications, this should be sufficient.

I'd guess you won't get Guests as visitors, but why not just limit them outright when they are at the door, so to speak.

There is no guarantee anyone can give us that anyone's name or intentions are honest and real, even in real life... so this is probably as good as it is going to get for security on the net.

This could be a feature of the Inventor's Corner, I've heard rumours about.

What say you?

Chris

Hi Chris

I received this from Chris Leonard a while back.

We are putting together a growth plan for CR4 which will likely include adding a forum called Inventor's Corner. The new forum would be placed into the New Technologies & Research section. This should happen within the next month or two, along with a number of additions and upgrades to the site.

Functionally though, we will not be able to add a different type of voting to allow for the desired measurement standard. We don't have the programming resources to develop this.

- Chris

.................................

I think a bit of motivation is needed so that CR4 admin can come up with something in their software department.

Just follow the amount of information some participants contributed to the thread mentioned by Radall. The out come that has been achieved after my earlier post is that information has been flowing and at least I have picked up a few things that came in real handy. There were no animosities no bitching about laws and a friendly comfortable atmosphere was had by all. I am surprised how not hot headed it was. This discipline shown proves that help with inventing is a very serious matter and needs to be addressed over and over again.

Global Spec/CR4 can take advantage of this by supplying inventors, future manufacturers, R+D departments etc. with all needed "unobtainables". They are really good at that as we all know.

then I think the entire onus for security will lie with the inventor.

This is true in general but could be assisted by a Patent Attorney. They are in the best position to evaluate an invention. Their background gives them a good tool to see if an idea has merit or not. I have seen products that were patented that defy belief. The only contributers making money are always the same. To find a pro bono PA is like finding the proverbial needle. Finding good inventions is about as hard. If all parties that want to make an idea work and they combine skills and talents, it can be done.

The quality of the invention will always rule the roost and if you have limited support in bringing it to the market some times even the good ones bite the dust. I hate when that happens and will spend even more time on realizing my ideas. Not that one should be stubborn about it but believing in what one does helps a lot. Putting an idea to scrutiny is what should be the aim of the game and to achieve that information has to flow freely. Back to square 1.

Another matter to be considered is that the inventor help groups/organizations (there is a whole industry out there) that feed on inventors and their families will not like it one bit. They could infiltrate the Inventors Corner (IC) and get their hands on the unsuspecting individual.

In the end I think that one has to handle this at arms length. A phone call can build trust but has its limitations. Hard to understand accents for example .

So were are the legal eagles that would want to assist with the Inventors Corner. Why don't you make some suggestions and give us a hand here. It should be for free, similar to some free soft ware.

Some of you must have lawyers in your circle of friends. Go and ask them and see what they think. Forget your wallet at home and let him/her buy the drinks. Gosh I love picking on Patent Attorneys and believe it or not when ever we had drinks (I usually paid) they would agree with me and be quiet cynical about the whole matter.

With out a trusted and committed PA you stand no chance in the real world. The initial cost is to high for the inventor. It is just not done by filling out a form and sending it with credit card # attached to the patent office This only gives you 1 year to get it all up and running and then going through the granting process and on and on. That is only possible if the home work is done and all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. One will need finance in place even before the first step. Catch 22? No, caught 44!

This would be a lonely place with out you guys. Lets wait and see, Ky.

Hello Chrisq288,

Yours is a very well put idea and should probably strike a note with many inventive types on this forum. I have given thought to a similar thread over the last few days, unaware that you had broached the idea.

It is a complex one, though. I would like to share some thoughts, but they are not orderly or fine tuned yet.

1. How to protect the inventor.

2. How do you legally give credit and rewards to subsequent improvements by involved CR4 members.

3. Is it all a free, charitable infusion of the wealth of knowledge and experience that is bequeathed on the inventor by the CR4 members who could probably do with some return on their input.

4. In fairness to all, is there a way to set the inventors forum to benefit all stake holders to the relative amount of their investment.

5. From the inventors perspective it is often a case of 1/2 a loaf or no bread but he may be the last to understand that or admit it. For the first invention or until some seed revenue stream comes in to enable an invention to patented, inventors are often stumped. This is why so many people must shelve their ideas. It may not be the worst thing to have happen but some ideas are real diamonds in the rough. You may have to mortgage a hefty part of potential reward to investors to proceed.

6. After a rewarding invention assisted by CR4 members, it may be your prerogative to be independent with future inventions. But CR4 member assistance should rightfully be rewarded how ever small that reward is. If they happen to be a party to the invention of the "next big thing", they should reap the reward.

7. The inventor is the key. Without his initial query or idea no one can make improvements and therefore he must enjoy a relative benefit.

8. I think a thread like this would light up CR4. CR4 could be an incubator for many inventions. If we put the combined talents of such a group to solve a problem who knows where it could go. Naivete, aside it could take months to craft the infrastructure for such an incubator but I personally feel it warrants investigation.

Hi 2tinker,

thank you for the vote of confidence. Like others of similar quality (ky, et al) you are just the sort of person we like to attract to our growing group of misfits! Your experience, brilliance, and enthusiasm give the inventor an essential bit of support. I like your questions, and will think long and hard about the answers.

I sort of think CR4 won't be willing to give us what we need, as they won't be willing to provide IP addresses of contributors as potential legal data. We will have to find another way of enabling our distributed collaboration.

Thank you,

Chris

A quick question/interruption:

chrisg288 has expressed his 'horizontal axis wind turbine' here in CR4 on 02/22/2009, 9:46 PM.

Let us say he has not patterned this idea yet.

Some one pickup this and attempts to pattern after 02/22/2009.

Can chrisg288 claim that it his idea and substantiate his claim through CR4?

I vaguely remember that, "even an idea is not duly patterned, if any person prove that he is the originator of an idea, he can file for pattern on a later date on name". Is this true?

In this particular case, I donated the design to the public domain.

but no, I think timing is in favor of the person who files the patent. but I'm no expert.

If two parties file at the same time, then it is a decision that the patent office must make to determine the prior date, as in the case of Tesla and Marconi... Tesla was finally proven to be the inventor of Radio, and Marconi the copycat.

In other cases with Edison, he had a buddy at the Patent office who would receive new patents, and run over and show them to edison. Edison would say which ones he was interested in, and then the buddy would delay the original filing, while Edison would create improvements on the other guy's work, and then file, and he would be granted the patents, as he filed first technically.. criminal.

Chris

Hi yesyen

Once an invention has been in the public domain you can not apply for a patent. If for example the rescue snake that Chris is suggesting would have been in a comic in 1953 it could not be patented. It was in the public domain.

It is very important for the inventor to keep things close to the chest. Even if you show it to people you should, by law, make them sign a nondisclosure agreement. Confidentiality agreements are not worth the space they take up on the screen so here is another conundrum we have to live with. Prior art is what it is called.

If Chris goes ahead with building those "Snakes" there are going to be patents needed to cover the details, like couplings or drive systems etc. Say, if you would think of a way to make it go under water in 5.2 seconds and would develop a system that could do that you could patent that and sell a license to Chris so he can use it. If he wants to, that is.

Venice and the flood problems there is a good example. They are trying to lift the whole City. This method was suggested in a comic were the rich Uncle of Donald Duck tries to save the City. The engineers doing it now can not have a patent on it. True story and a lot of controversy.

If you don't have strong backing and a dedicated team in all fields of expertize you can't succeed in the market. Giving things away for a very small royalty has never fed the inventor. He usually has to stay in the project to make a profit. Very, very complicated procedure. I have seen grown men weep, that's how hard it can get.

The Academy has a lot to answer for!

Good Luck to all, Ky.

You have seen grown men weep.
But not many could see people like me weeping internally for our inability to bring the conceived concepts to useful realities, because of very, very complicated prevailing procedures.
"We are putting together a growth plan for CR4 which will likely include adding a forum called Inventor's Corner." – Chris.
Nice to hear this. Wish to see this spot, IC, grows bigger and bigger across the tunnel and eventually shows a way out.

yesyen

It is very hard work and nobody is going to do it for us. If we combine our efforts it would help. See what happens with the IC. Good to have you on board my friend, Ky.