How can gravity be a primary force of anything?

Shyam,

In several of your posts you have mentioned the idea of multiple universes. I confess to having a very hard time with this concept.

My problem is seated in the potential number of these imagined universes there may be. If a new bifurcation occurs whenever one of two possible outcomes may obtain (something I have heard postulated), then the number of universes must surely be so unimaginably large as to require new mathematical constructs even to express it.

If there is some other mechanism spawning new universes, under what conditions could it be triggered? You must be careful, because given what we think is the time since the big bang, the probability per unit time of a new universe being generated must be very small, else we will return to a similar situation to that in my paragraph above. (This also assumes that the universe 'started' with the big bang, and that there were no parallels already running).

I hold that, pending some more substantial evidence (which I suspect is somewhat akin to requiring substantial evidence of the existence of a god), the concept of parallel universes is rejected (except as a useful device in some gedankenexperimenten).

Can creatures, such as us, with our attoscopic brains, and terrascopic egoes possibly hope to understand totally, the universe in which we live? We can merely get a small nibble of the whole truth, yet we tend to feel that when we discover something fantastic, that we are somehow much smarter, and applaud ourselves for the discovery.We tend to forget that we did not make any part of the universe, we are only passing thru, in the blink of an eye, and get only a snap-shot of a super-dynamic system.I am not saying that knowledge is useless, to the contrary, it should remind us of the finite nature of ourselves, and the infinite nature of the universe.A great discovery should leave us with a sense of awe and humility, for the thing that we discovered has been at work since the beginning of time. I am not saying that the universe in unknowable,merely that our greatest knowledge is merely a drop in the ocean.I cannot comprehend infinity, but I can comprehend the finite nature of myself and mankind. We can only digest information in little bites.A mathematical formula is merely a tool to lead us to a conclusion one little step at the time.We cannot see the final result till we jump thru all the hoops of the formula.If we were REALLY smart, we would not need the formula at all.There have been a few men that could "see" the answer intuitively, but could not show their work, and they were accused of cheating. "Ok children, jump thru the hoops". Can you think of a single thing that man has created from scratch? I cannot,except maybe hate, bigotry, greed and intolerance, and these are merely indicators of our ignorance, and having not long been down from the trees. We have taken our greatest discoveries(E=MC2) and inventions and used them for destruction, rather than progress. We should not confuse knowledge with wisdom, and we should seek wisdom in the ability to use our knowledge. As Carl Sagan said:"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, first you have to create a universe." I don't know who made the pie, but I'll have another slice, please. HiTekRedNek (exit 0)

Man has created from "scratch" a couple of things I can think of but there's probably a lot more...Ego and Stupidity!

These questions fascinate me! Anybody have a good answers for them?

What do you call a very intelligent fish?

How many seconds are there in a year?

How many days of the week start with a "T".

What is God's first name?

"A liberal education... frees a man from the prison-house of his class, race, time, place, background, family and even his nation."--Robert M Hutchins. What is holding you back?

I have found my answers. Walla!

A very intelligent fish is a brain Sturgeon!

There are 12 seconds in a year starting with the second of January.

All the days of the week start with a "T". Today and Tomorrow!

And God's first name is Andy! I went to church Wednesday night and they were singing..."Andy walks with me, Andy talks with me, Andy tells me I am His own...

"I found the answers............."

Gravity of happiness is in your mind. So is the Kindom of God. You decide who should be your your God and that makes you happy. It is so easy to feel and so difficult to find. It is inside and not outside and comes by realization within.

All the days of the week start with a "T".

Yesterday starts with a Y, and dummy ends with 1

Parallel Universes there are few clear possibilities.

1. Antimatter Universe - nothing prevents the proton from holding negative charge in another Universe and electrons holding positive charge. Heavy always may not mean positive charge.

2. Part of our Universe - but highly isolated from us and perhaps of similar nature. This is easy to visualize as multiple sides of the explosion at rather high rate of expansion and giving only virtual idea of low rate of expansion for all matter within small zone.

3. Universe with non-interacting fields among Universes or with only limited interaction. No idea if such thing can ever exist and no way to know. It is like knowing vacuum so we can believe that vacuum is papallel another universe non-interacting type.

4. other ideas

I had this another thought that vacuum is negative energy matter in another invisible parallel universe and if you can impart enough energy to vacuum and in right quanta then it may accept it (energy delivery method may be different than shining LASER or exploding few supper nukes. Perhaps dumping some right type of antimatter may work. Some food for another universe) and then a part of the vacuum universe will spring back as visible thing to finally remain as matter of our universe. (For just the opposit- we also may be losing some of our matter to the invisible universe in a reverse process. This will take small amount of matter and will give us back lots of energy similar to fusion energy generation but from negative energy universe in return of matter we lost to it) This way we get something from nothing (or we give something to nothing) but we lost more to negative energy and gained little matter (losing matter returns more energy and losing lots of energy gives little matter to us). The opposite to it is vacuum is very very high energy state and we take some energy out of it then it cools down and becomes visible. I need to think about somehow draining out energy from this universe to make it part of our universe. This way we gain energy as well as some matter. This sounds like big bang to me. Losing energy from supper energy vacuum universe may be once a while and it may be resulting into big bangs here and there. Hence, this will keep creating both matter and energy all the time (new Nobel Prize Idea - much better than ever proposed and no one can say it is impossible) That is how we can see negative energy or ultra high positive energy of parallel universes that are hidden in so called vacuum. I am not having any idea of how deep the vacuum is in negative energy or how high is positive energy.

Another idea - Can universe be compressed into a point? If not than big bang did not originate from a point. What was the size of something that became a big bang and what was it? Is the point of big bang a gate way to another universe and what we have in leaked out matter? Is God ship is leaking through big bang? Are there many big bangs and many holes in the parallel universe? Or two gint invisible universes are bumping on each other and giving birth to us small visible to us universe? Is our universe born without parents, just by nothing? If nothing can be something then why we don't teach that? Why Physics always teaches that nothing will disappear? Can we not accept that something can go away for good and something can come to us from nothing?

I am sure confused with this so call big bang idea or I have not all the information about the model. If parallel universe like vacuum is with deep energy and something there causes big bang then it may pop-up here to us as our universe. Up to this I am happy about. I can't digest the theory of something from nothing.

Shyam, when you write things like "I had this another thought that vacuum is negative energy matter in another invisible parallel universe and if you can impart enough energy to vacuum and in right quanta then it may accept it (energy delivery method may be different than shining LASER or exploding few supper nukes.", I get worried!

I do not know if you are are an engineer, scientist or technologist. I am an engineer and my mission has always been to take solid, established and well proven science and to go and apply it to practical problems for the betterment of life for humankind.

My advice to you: leave science to the scientists and eagerly await new scientific breakthroughs that you can apply practically. Do not philosophize on what may have been if science was different. Be realistic, we engineers are not well equipped for doing science!

What I do agree with is to take modern, mainstream science and translate it into "engineering language".

Dear Jorrie

The entire universe is open to all scientists so it is not in my control. I do not understand much of it either and many theories put together make no sense to me. I am not book scientist and never take anything for granted from any one.

I hunt for almost same thing what others do but I beleive differently. For example, atoms in radiactive material that decay now or that may decay later must have signature of their life in them from my point of view and are not alike for me. You may think they are same and follow statistical process (which may predict death of entire universe in a jiffy at some point). People go with spoon feeded knowledge alone (eventhough, somehow we all use it that way to great extent) and only some break the path every now and then.

I try to build instruments to catch minor signatures of atomic and sub atomic particles. I build similar instruments for others who think they have an idea. I am really not asking any one to take my ideas all that seriously. They are just my thoughts.

Real life things brings bread to me and I work for money and others pay for what they need and I do for them. I teach others only how one can earn bread. However, I think of many things as well that may be possibilities. I do some serious research on those things if I have enough resources. Please continue with whatever you are doing. Don't worry if I am a scientist or not. I am just a human, and that is all about me. I never like any other thing to be added to my identity.

Many of your comments were very nice to read. I think you do a lot of analysis of current research. I am not going into evaluation of any of those ideas as they will not be any engineering use in my life. I am in realistic world most of the time and only once a while swim into special thought world. It is all fiction unless we get to some link. That is what all people are talking. I look for possibilities and some are very pleasent thoughts to me (perhaps of zero scientific value). So, I am not a Scientist or Engineer. I am just Shyam.

It is mid night in India. I will prefer to have some good sleep. Bye.

Reply to Shyam's: "I hunt for almost same thing what others do but I beleive differently."

I think it is good to have lateral thinkers on the forum, so do not take my "criticism" too seriously! Maybe you should try and help out David, the original poster of this thread. To me it appears that he is off on a tangent that will bring him nowhere, but he does not listen to me - maybe he will listen to you!

Regards, Jorrie

Dear Jorrie

You are doing good job and I greatly admire that. I have read your many comments are they are good. Others will fly high with thoughts and will return to their ship sooner or later. Cleaning dirt is also very good thing even though seldomly admired.

I am involved in teaching to engineering lecturers, giving practical training to engineers, scientific instrument design and manufacturing, private ion beam research research for next generation instrument and systems. I am doing all that not for me but to let 100s others to get bread in life. I have feelings for people and I need to help them if I can. This consumes a lot of my time and ebergy and only at mid night I can see your postings on CR4.

World is waiting for some breakthrough in knowledge that may open gate to new living method. It is happening in small steps each day. While some work in real life like doctors, engineers and scientists, we also need people who can think beyond all the time.

Each of us want to break the Gravity pull but the Gravity Octopus won't leave us and will use us as its food right here of the earth. I will not like to be a food to the worms so my people will burn me to increase some CO2 in the atmosphere and I will be the cause of the climate change one day for all of you who may live after me. I will break that shell of gravity pull for a while until some tree will eat me from air. I will prefer to be eaten by trees than to be eaten by worms as once I am part of the tree, I will make the climate a bit better for you all. So let us all be happy now. I will be tree for you to take rest one day under my shade.

If the human brain is divided into analytical and artistic hemispheres, engineers and physicists would have well developed analytical sides. There is a great benefit to mankind when engineers use logic, and technology. However history shows that it is the artist-having no fear of abandoning logic (or no concept of the exisitng logic) that is able to 'break the current path' Ironically an artist's (theorist's) new view, will only benefit mankind after the engineer has converted it into technology.

It is a genuis that can do both.

Shyam keep entering into "special thought" I enjoy reading all of your, and Jorrie's posts; just remember to come back when you are hungry-there are alot of starving artists.

Without LOGIC thoughts will be random and of little use. Even dreams may have great amount of LOGIC in them.

Logic is a must for any intelligent system to perform. However, after the LOGIC we also need good inference engine where Fuzzy world is made look like real in quantized yes and no states to move on.

Deams are our greatest asset. I have been using them for decades. I designed more than 600 new designs (you can find many on the net and some are too old now) only in the dreams and I used to wake up and write in a small note book and go back to sleep. Most of do not give too much value to our dreams and become poor of this great natural wealth.

It is really very hard to become engineer or doctor or for that matter any kind of professional. It is much easy for me to do all that without rules. The way I live I need to break all rules. You see - I treat cancer in hospital being a radiological physicist, I teach engineers, I manufacture nuclear electronics, I develop new chemical sensors, and perhaps I do many more things. I also get double salary of a professor, I get double paid for my instruments, I also manage to do small cherity works to help jobless engineers and I do whatever I like. This will sound utter rubbish to many to do. So they are not Shyam in any way.

Whatever you like you do in this world as long as it makes you and others a bit happy. Always break the gravity and see beyond. Test your own thoughts on LOGIC and accept mistake in LOGIC as world without LOGIC will be like imposing dictatorship. I think science is a way to democracy and perhaps greatest possible source of happiness.

I request you all to concentrate on the theme of Gravity and I will like to read many more good postings. Gravity's secret may be hidden in its being non-polar force. Something like neutrons in the atom. Why are they there? Why can't they survive out side? If we can change neutrons to other particles know finer particles, we will also know how gravity became other forces, that are much stronger and polarized in nature. I caution you all that - please do not think that I am a scientist and my thoughts have any scientific value. If you like reading then please go ahead. I am very much afraid to be called a scientist even though all under 10 children near my house call me just that.

"Gravity's secret may be hidden in its being non-polar force."

Possibilities

1. The gravitron (or whatever you picture) consists of a positive shell around a negative core. Impossible to peak at core.

2. Time is also non-polar. Perhaps it is the other polarity.

3. Opposite polarity is into an extra dimension, we cannot measure.

4. All or none of the above

Forces may be like a binary language. (+/-) they represent something much more complex than simply on/off. It is like seeing the internet cable 1s and 0s, and never getting a computer.

You have one nice thing here and this is also the base of the thread.

---> Graviton can not peak at the core and paerhaps mass in real sense is a shell. Gravity inside the particle perhaps is push outwards and outside the particle pull inwards.

Now if we look at the already set up theory of nuclear well. There are two things to look at. inside particles are bound due to something and it is not easy for anything to enter the well all that easily. What makes that nuclear force at the shell of the well?

If we consider gravity outside and inside as one wavefunction G(x,y,z) for th finest possible particle and then sum up for all particles along with other force functions such as electrostic force (which also may have complex function in smaller dimensions), we may be able to manufacture the larger particle core.

------> Time is not a force so we can not use it here unless our natural factory is time dependent and all particles under going disintegration as radiactive materials do. There we may find better use of time. Perhaps all particle forms may be disintegrating, forming and reforming as our living cell do to make us look like same living thing. Time is a parameter and may or may not be a part of the fundamental wavefunction unless matter is something photon in motion and is trapped in a spherical shell where it is in a closed loop for a very long period waiting to excape. In that case both time and space can become part of the wavefunction even for stationaly fixed shape particle.

-----> Why particles take to smaller shape? It is something to be assigned as a propety to the Gravity G(x,y,x). Perhaps space has a meaning for the particles in time and I am afraid to add that time to it as G(x,y,z,I(t)). I(t) comes from interaction with other particles else single particle may live longer or forever without time. It can be associated to change of forms for particles and birth of new particles.

------> While things are non-magnetic, without charge, but why nothing is without gravity? Like the way we separate electric and magnetic fields from particles and see these in photon, can we also see something like this as a graviton? Perhaps that is what fundamental particles are and may be just one type in the end.

Fundamental Particle construct

(Graviton + photon / 2) or

(Graviton + photon / 4)

Or particle ---> 4 x Gravitons + 1 photon

Gravitons may not be free as magnetic and electric fields are not free in a photon.

Some more deeper thoughts may link the things in isolation and can provide key to the origin of the particles and photon and their exchanges.

I am sorry about the way I say things. You can write the function the way you know things. I do not know how others know these and express these things. I do not read books or published papers in quantum mechanics. I visualize these myself so may be hard for others to find what I am saying. These sound OK in my head and are as clear as I can lift my hand on thinking.

I simply tried to point out that gravity is not primary. It is a secondary effect, tied to our atmospheric shell and the entire universe.

If gravity were a primary force, the pulling of the earth, then someone please tell me how a storm in the north atlantic, with the atmospheric pressure dropping (lower density, higher speed) above the water, causes the water levels to rise in the neighborhood of several feet? If gravity were a "pull" of the earth, the pressure (or lack thereof) above the land or water would NOT have a negative effect on gravity! However, if the "effect" of gravity were an electromagnetic force ( interacting between our atmospheric shell and the physical earth), it could be affected by the amount or "density" of atomic matter (electromagnetically charged") between the "shell" and the "earth".

David, you wrote: "... someone please tell me how a storm in the north Atlantic, with the atmospheric pressure dropping (lower density, higher speed) above the water, causes the water levels to rise in the neighborhood of several feet?"

What do you think makes fluid rise in a drinking straw that you suck on? The storm does the same thing to the ocean!

Hint: don't ever use this one as a 'proof' of your theory - you only shoot yourself in the foot!

I depart this discusssion with these final words:

When a wise man contendeth with a fool, it is hard to tell them apart.

It is far better to keep one's mouth shut, and let people assume he is a fool, than to open it and erase all doubt.

Some guest said "I depart this discussion with these final words:..."

As another guest, I want to agree. Nobody (except perhaps Jorrie) tried to answer the original poster's statements (or theory?) and even that has not been very successful, it seems!

So let's close a pretty long and fruitless discussion in a more or less civilized manner: "may this thread rest in peace"!

Actually even Jorrie overlooked the fact that in the original post there was a prediction made that the interference pattern would re-appear

I was hoping someone would get to it. This could have been ended quickly.

The concept of a single photon and interference patterns was discussed in another thread and that is why I believe it wasn't covered here.

Interestingly though Davida didn't respond to the query on how his theory could explain a LaGrange point.

Please don't use the word atmosphere as that is not what you want to say. What you want to say is space above earth is responsible for the gravity of the earth and it is push from space to the earth.

I have read a book by Param Hansa Tiwari 0 retired Director Nuclear Power Station Cota, India. He beleived that matter is vacuum and vacuum is matter and the world is full of matter and only few voids in it are us. We eat void. He has written many quantum mechanics formula and even made a generator that can generate energy in a perpetual way. there are many such people. I am not very sure of such ideas but point to what you say in the form of Gravity. It is push and not pull. There one problem in it that it becomes stronger at distance which is against all rules of potential gradients. Perhaps I have not computed and you may be right. Can you give your formula to perhaps Jorrie or some AIP members and they may help on that. Mathematical model will help in a much better way. Unfortunately I do not earn my bread from Physics so I hate those numerical analysis methods which are the starting point to get some respect in Physics society and to know that your thoughts are up side down on not. While I often escape leaving the proof to others, many others feel hard to do so. You start proving and you go nuts. I rather assume so no proof requred. You all say you are right so end up proving yourself wrong in the last or without sleep. I will say, that have a nice sleep and your dream Godess (if you beleive so) will solve it for you. Next day while you have tea, you can talk of intelleigent solution.

Much of the public thinking is due to NASA like organizations and many other societies and institutions all over the world. Many put their life on serious research, and perhaps are cause of our progress and happiness. It is like you think, and you work and I gain. So I will say thank you.

Dear David and Jorrie

If you wish then read my new theory of Gravity, Shtom, Sh+ and Sh- particles etc. I want to avoid making the forum dirty and hence have placed it at location

http://www.sensorstechnology.com/research/shtom.html

It is very much OK if you think it is bull shit. I also know that. It is a test of tolerance in humans at times. You can say whatever you like and is Ok with me.

Dear David

It is not the slit that splits the photon (or Shtom atom like particle) and causes interference. Something more happens and which shares the energy of a photon and makes another photon that you see as two photons. Looks to me the Shtom theory can explain this using Sh+ and Sh- particles of the Shtom (Photon). Photon while in its journy actually splits and recombines many times and is never same. You never see it as long as the two travel together and only when you start sepating them you get two energies. Why two energies, you can get four, eight and any number of energies. However, if this split of Shtom happens at specific minimum energy level with another Shtom at near zero energy or at room temperature energies then you will find this Phenomenon only in those Shtoms that are above certain energies.

David, you brought this discussion Gravity and Photon Interference in one place and made me to discover Shtom and related. It is opening many gate for me now in my mind and is a very strong construct on basic LOGIC of understanding. Perhaps I will have to refine the inner construct of Shtom slowly with some more details tested on LOGIC, but for now I am getting feeling that Photon is very much atom like particle and not a pure energy. It is a Shtom and different from atom and pure energy both. It is also not one while it travels and also not of one energy as we know. It is multiple and with total energy and makes friends on the way with many sleeping Shtoms. Shtom experiences vacuum all the time under while it is motion and something keeps its energy safe for very long. I think vacuum is a very elastic and friendly medium for Shtoms (Photons). Other mediums separate the Shtoms formed from a single Shtom on the way in the medium as you see in double slit interference. This should also happen in any Glass air Glass medium interface changes. People may have to go back to the experimental table once again to see what they missed so far.

It is like Shtom (E) --> Shtoms (E1) + Shtom(E1) --> Shtom(E) and so on.

Splitting is not direct and other Shtoms join on the way and leave on the way. our all energy measurements are on the bases of energy imparted within time period in matter and hence, we can not separate shtoms unless our media restricts energy absoption above. Try experimenting with this film scintillators and you can easuily prove this. It is very easy to catch low energy photons among high energy photons using PHOSWITCH detector. I worked on this Technology 32 years ago. You can try now. you will require fastest in the world scintillator and with pulse shape analyzer. The rise time of the pulse will differ in ps zone. This electronics may cost about US$50000 range. I have capability to build it.

I am predicting all this today because of idea of Shtom. One LOGIC can change the world with you and as gives you next step and way for Science and Engineering.

"Shtom" the name I have given from my name Shyam and using part of it from name Atom to redefine Photom as Shtom for greater clerity. I may be able to explain lot of Physics using this new construct concept.

To test my theory, I myself now planning the experiments. It is worth doing all that. I am poor so it is not easy for me even by putting my all life's earnings on it. I am not to leave it and will do all possible experiments in this life itself.

Thanks you David. You have given me greatest happiness of life and made my life worth for me. Even if this theory fails, I will be very happy to experiment with. It is like entering the heaven of truth and talking to God directly.

Shyam,

While Phoswich (Phosphor Sandwich) detectors have useful properties; as you know, they rely on scintillations from NaI(Tl) which has (typ) 230 ns time constant and CsI(Na) with (typ) 680 ns time constant , and discrimination between them. There is some "as-we-know-it" physics in detector technology which no amount of picosecond discrimination is going to help us with when looking for signals buried as deeply as you're looking. If you have faith in your theory, you have the capability to build the equipment and perform the experiment yourself.

Are you going to do it?

I've just read deeper into your post [at which I ranted (_sorry)] - but if you run a company which supplies such equipment, surely you could beg/borrow/get on 'sale or return' enough gear to do it?

Dear John

Not that slow PHOSWITCH. Use something that is used in space research. 100ps timing order or faster.

You can replace NaI:Tl with plastic scintillator. Perhaps to start with you can use Bicron 400 or better faster plastic scintillators that are in few ns time domain. My plan is <100ps. You can also try my old friend at OE Technology to get some plastic scientillators as he has lots of that.

Another method is to use fast thick layer of plastic scintillator (1m thick block) alone and look at the rise time shape of the peak. It will have signature of two photons in one pulse like pile up or deformed shape. In other words, the frequency component for higher frequency will emerge in FFT spectrum of the pulse. Perhaps you can try DSP process and do not go for dual scintillator old technology.

If you use scintillator as an optical fiber then also you can get same results. I can't go in too much details as my mind now moving very rapidly and putting all the thoughts in the discussions will be impossible for me and my thinking will slow down. I need to dream and solve everything there as I often do. I will plan experiments now when my mind will calm down in few days. Wave of consciousness becomes active for all of us and we can ride it to extract maximum from inside our mind. You can say you can feel things faster than you can compute. That is a very slow tool for me.

I have already found out many other things now and each day I will have lots of new dreams. It will drift from the discussion of the forum theme so I will prefer to say Good Bye to all you friends. I am also going to start funding my experiments immediately. What else can give better happiness than searching the truth. I am now not funded by the Government and use my own savings and that something my wife can spare for me. I am sure she will be shocked for months if she knows my plans. However, she is my best friend.

It is 3 AM now. I need to have some good sleep of few hours.

Bye.

Shyam, I for one hope for you to have the outcome, be it success or failure; that provides you the most happiness. I have enjoyed your postings, and feel honored to have (very slightly) participated.

I have to admit I have read over the postings multiple times. You stated that when you were younger you would wake up and write your dreams in your notebook, because your dreams are best for solving problems. I believe that you still do this, except now your notebook is digital, and we get to read it.

I expect you to be away for awhile, this will be taken as a good sign. Keep busy, keep happy, and keep having pleasant dreams.

It is great to hear someone find happiness in the challenge.

Yes, I dream a lot. Yesterday's dream has given me solution to pair production. It tells me that the Shtom or Photon when of higher energy gets into compressed form and becomes smaller. It then can easily get into nuclear field. However when it bumps into that limit , it compresses intially and then elogates too much on exit due to nuclear fields and then in elongated condition and retarded or deaccelerated state it reacts with another Shtom or Phonon and pairs (Sh-,Sh-) and (Sh+, Sh+) to make electron and positron. Such condition can happen only in highly retarded state of Shtom of energy above 1.02 MeV and perhaps the Rest Mass of the (Sh-,Sh-) and (Sh+, Sh+) equals that energy and hence this particle set also becomes heavy. You can also see how probability or cross section of interaction increases in Shtom and nuclear field at high energies.

Direct Shtom + Shtom interaction into pait production is thus forbidden due to shorter time for pait (Sh-,Sh-) and (Sh+, Sh+) from Shtom (Sh+, Sh-). That means two Photons or Shtoms can not easily interact unless they travels a lot together and also find time or something that retards them and allows a pair formation of (Sh-,Sh-) and (Sh+, Sh+) which has greater size and mass and its wavefunction affects many sleeping Shtoms in motion making them short lived.

Funny thing is that electron alone can not accelerate and it need a horse like Shtom to get coupled to it under acceletation.

Anihilation of electrons and positron and forming Shtoms was easier as these particles are shlow, longer, less troublesome. Only I needed mas to change to oscillations to convert mass into compact energy construct of the Shtom. This also has done to through the gravity away. Hence, Gravity is somewhere in the retardation and gaining mass. I will not be able to get more solution on this unless my dream directs to that direction. I am not thinking but dreaming. You can perhaps understand that.

Some how I found in my dream to help john on experimenting to catch two Shtoms of half energy in Single Shtoms when it enters matter. This possibility gives birth to Double slit interference, what david has initially placed in the thread and now is becoming reality for new experiments and new thinking. Please see my reply to John on this as it was his question.

Dear John

Tiday's dream has given me this thing you asked for. See the picture below. Perhaps only half energy interference you may be able to observe and 1/4, 1/16 etc may be either forbidden or may heppen in highly sense media. Only early rise portion is different and not top near the peak which is acually identical. Hence hunt to signature in 10% to 90% rise time change. See the picture below. The steps are too small in time time <100ps. Shtom is changing these states easily in medium and some lower energy energy sharing may be normay not possible or observable. You may see only 1/2 E states as Shtom may hardly find another Shtom to get coupled in nuclear field. This is same state equivalent to pair production but a failed to form particle situation.

Shtom (Photon) + Shtom (Phonon in nuclear field) ----> (Sh-, Sh-) and (Sh+, Sh+)

or in failed state

Shtom (Photon) + Shtom (Phonon in nuclear field) ----> (Sh+, Sh-) and (Sh+, Sh-) of half energy coupled state ---> interference sources under delayed phase effect.

What you see in your experiment is separation due to delayed phase. Prism does it immediately as it gives different paths for low energiy Shtoms than to full energy Shtoms. Hence, Splitting of Sjtoms has nothing to do with slit but all to do with failed pair production in the nuclear field. I want to tell you that my mind wave is now settling down so will not be dreaming things for a while. I will spend time with Children and educate them in simple things. Hope you got some lead to do experiments. I will wait for another nice wave ride some time later and I hope I may get solution for what happens in supper conductors where two (Sh-, Sh-) can pair together and get compresed in size and travel easily in the low temperature medium or if something else is the cause. You can see the difference in my thinking which is almost stupid and wave which gives 1000 times better solution for LOGIC. We all are two in one and inner shell more intelligent for sure and outer shell just a bit to move around and feel self and gross nature of the world.

Dear John

PHOSWITCH is simulation for non-linear medium.

If you can get a non-linear scintillator then timing signature will be much better. Do not look at tail portion at all as by then Shtom (Photon) energy becomes almost identical.

If you can differential the pulse then you will get two peaks separated by <100ps or whatever delay medium may cause while one sleeping Shtom is interacting with your external Shtom (Photon). Here, the Z of the media may also play some role in time domain and greater separation of the peak. The separation comes from elongation of the rubber band like motion on exit time from nuclear field where Sh- tends to remain with nucleus and Sh+ is pushed out fast. This elongated state allows coupling of another sleeping or low energy shtom with your Shtom (Photon) resulting into sharing of particle state to either for (Sh-,Sh-) amd (Sh+, Sh+) pair or give you two equal Shtoms of half energy each as failed pair production. You can also see that gravity comes to only identical particle pairs. While it looks easy to have more splittings of 2 to 4 and so on but some of these may be conditional or forbidden states. Direct intercation among Shtoms looks forbidden so far as there is no retardation and not enough time. This condition requires bery special arrangement like Qauantum dot structure to give time to it in confined state.

That rubber band effect of Shtom in nuclear field also can explain Raman effect and other phenomenons on how the rubber band behaves in time in nuclear field and at different temperatures and z of the material. Shtom has time and space within. I will not like to go into it now. My dreams are directing towards all basic understanding of many effects Shtom experiences in mediums or togetherness with particles. What I am surprized now is that everything is particles and energy can't be separated. One can only assume Shtom particle as pure energy for convenient use in approximation.

Gravity is not a separate identity or something permanent thing was another outcome of this theory. Gravity is a state which may go away any time very easily to near zero gravity and never to real zero gravity. Gravity is an after effect of the reaction and formation of something.

We may have many more secretes hidden in matter formation and my brain wave in not moving in that direction. It loves free mind and most of the time I am like a child and play with Children. If I get something there then I will let you people know about it. I never make any great attempts to think. It just happens to me somehow.

Shyam I gather you are saying that the photon splits in two forming two Shtoms. If this were to happen you would need to split the amount of energy in half and since the wavelength of a photon is dependent on the energy then the two shtoms would have longer wavelengths and lower frequencies than the initial photon. Either that or they would need to slow down.

If what you are saying is correct then when you split light with the two slits then you would get light of different colours on the other side of the slit. To my knowledge this doesn't happen so how do you explain it.

Dear Masu

You have not read properly. Photon is not splitting. In nuclear field it gathers another Shtom and shares energy in retarded state and in failed pair production state. Yo see, it is energy sharing and not Shtom splitting/ You need another Shtom and perhaps that comes from Phonon of the atom or medium. Once it shucks and couples to that (Phonon or Photon) Shtom then you can see recoil effect also and you get this stuff of either two Shtoms or pair production. I can't say beyond this now. It is consistent and LOGICAL.

You can't break a Hydrogen atom and you can't break a Shtom also. It is a particle with fundamental particles Sh+ and Sh- inside. You can't increase their numbers to split the Shtom or Photon. Only it is not like atoms in its construct or design, and is nore like neutron (do not make it equivalent as it is not that way also) without mass and with energy as oscillator.

Greater is the energy perhaps smaller it is in size. With too much energy it may become something else, which I am yet to know but it may very well happen. Sh+ and Sh- may react or may have some other state in time and space construct of itself. In any way shtoms are not affected unless they experience nuclear forces. Perhaps in dense star, Shtoms will under go reaction change and may become something else in highly retarded state. I have no idea of its experiences in those conditions.

I have obviously lost track here. I will need to go back and read all your posts to see where I got lost. I was trying to do two things at the same time and stuffed the other one up as well. For your information 7805 +5V regulators dont work backwards. That tiny bit of smoke that's in all electronic components and is critical to their function escaped and it doesn't work any more.

Dear Masu

Yes those regulators LM7805 don't sink current and only source current. In fact another variable regulator LM317 will sure need a diode from output to input to keep it safe. Put a diode with anode at the output and cathode at the input power source to discharge the power. This will not reduce the voltage that is in between 5V and Input voltage as diode will not conduct and your regulator will not sink the extra voltage. So use a discharge resistance for it or so called crowbar protection which kills any extra voltage. Perhaps a 5.1V or 5.6V 1W Zener diode between output and Ground will do the job and will make you happy. You need push-pull regulators which are not in the market yet. These regulators supposed to be like power amplifiers with source and sink capability. If you have any problem then I can help you design. Are you charging some capacitor with that LM7805?

Now for the Shtom theory. Here are some more thoughts that may be considered day time clean up jobs.

Coherent double Photon from time spaced two Photons is only possible if this double interaction is permitted by the single nuclear force domain (do not confuse it with electron-photon interactions in LASER production, we are talking of nuclear fields only now). This will also predict that 0.51MeV to 1.02MeV two Photons can also result into pair production if it is so for high energy photons. This is not at all easy so duplicated coherent Photon emission is equally impossible. Splitting is rather easy way out. I feel that two photon interactions are possible only with lots of photons around and not with few here and there.

Perhaps the theory has to under go some more visualizations before it becomes a complete usable model. It is still very much mist like right now. Once accountability is introduced, we will get results that fit into other models as well. I am right now keeping away from Ghost Models of Quantum mechanics as they are assumptions and not real visualizations.

It is human nature to call Ghost to something we have no idea. Once we know it then it is as good as anything else.

Thank you for your offer Shyam. I understand what you are talking about with the limitations. Trouble is I was working on a bread board and wired the little bugger up the wrong way, it always helps if its connected the correct way in the first place.

Dear Masu

That is not your fault. The designers themselves have done it wrong way. See catalogs of LM7805 and LM78L05. They are exactly the opposit way. So if you learn something once and use it as an universal experience then also it may result into crash. Always look at all the numbers, make and their original catalogs. Fortunately LM7805 was designed short circuit proof with temperature protection within. I am not sure, how good its is in reverse polarity protection scheme. It is very good in short circuit protection.

Yes the documentation I was supplied with was for the wrong chip. I havn't used 7805 for a while and I thought the pin outs they supplied me with look strange, I should have trusted my memory and not the documentation. I can say from experience now that they are not very tolerant to reverse polarity connection. They fail catastrophically at about 5V and that critical smoke component escapes. Just out of curiosity have you got any idea how may days you have spent trying to sort something out only to find that the manual was wrong in the first place. I can think of a couple of program manual errors that have cost me a week each. The one I remember most vividly was a function statement that showed the variables you passed it in the wrong order, it took quite a while to figure out what was going wrong and then to find out what the correct order was. I just remembered another one from way back. I was working on a micro processor based control and automation system called the A/D1000. It consisted of a Central processing unit that had 10 serial interfaces that would talk to op to 64 panels connected in parallel on each of the channels. The serial interface cards could either use a 20ma current loop or a 300 baud voltage signal. Some bright spark in the states decided to design a new interface board that was RS-232 compatible and would run at 600 baud. They shipped this board all over the world stating it was 100% tested and operational but nobody could get it to work. The designers blamed poor line quality for the failure. I eventually traced it back to the fact that the mother board in all the CPU that had been produced up till that time had no -12V rail going to the IO boards hence the RS-232 card could never have worked. The fix was so simple in the end but it cost I would say world wide at least a man year of labor stuffing about with it.

Making a copy of Shtom with identical energy may be a difficult construct but not impossible. What you may be getting is an delayed effect if you get equal energy interference in phase shofted two Photons. Phase delay may be caused by medium interactions. I have not much idea there. Our perception on the film or CCD is a slow effect. We should look with <100ps time domain separation on image formation and not in ns and microseconds. Shtom turning into 2 Shtoms of half energies is in very short time domain. They can easilt become one in another medium which remove one of them and let one carry all energy. While they travel almost together, they hardly interact with each other. This is now part of my new experiments. It is to be verified and not to be beleived to be true. I can't direct the dreams so can not cross check the details. This is all to be done in real life experiments.

Dear friends

Energy and energy density in time space packet in highly statistical both real and complex reality of nature for an observer and hard to fix in a clear shape of classical understanding and going back in time will not make us any more intelligent. Hence, while you can have fun, you need to look into future from where not only you can go up the hill but can also tunnel through in almost zero time forgetting about space playing role in velocity to travel.

Maxwell was the great man on earth to show the new way. Subsequently, Ludwig Boltzmann, Bose and Einstein also accepted the way nature is and contributed wonderful research work for the world to know more about the nature's laws.

Hence, smaller models of particle theory alone will not be able to explain all that we know now. It does not matter, how hard we try, we will end up with wiping out the model in the end.

The thread of Gravity will not be able to take up to any serious conclusion as it is far reaching in research and ideas. I did get some benefit and will be experimenting with, and perhaps will get new results also. By products are some time of greater value than the main product itself and was the case here. I want to thank david for the thread and Jorrie for seriously looking into many things and pointing out error. There were also other good thoughts. I also loved looking into classical model that can be of some fun but hardly of any use. We know little of the nature for sure and some thinking from somewhere will drive us to next step.

I will not return to this thread now as it has reached its peak now. Bye friends.

Keep it simple

Compare this question to the other principles you see every day:

When a truck passes you, are you not repulsed at some points and sucked in at other points.

How does a vacuum pickup work... a hole in a water pipe will do two things

1. if the flow rate is slow, the water will leek.
2. If you increase the Potential energy (speed the water goes past the hole) it will not leek and instead suck in air or other liquids

Gravity is simply the sucking force created by an object travelling at extreme speed. this causes high pressure areas and low pressure areas. If the object is spinning, the outside is going even faster. Energy is absorbed and excess is expelled from a pole

For an object to repell it must be going at a slower speed

How fast is the planet surface spinning (17,000 miles per day) + the speed to travel around the sun (pi X 93 million miles² / 1 year) + the speed the solar system is travelling in the galaxy + the speed the galaxy is travelling in the universe and that is all I know about... is the universe moving?

This only leads to one conclusion... Space is a firmity

I never trusted the taught theory comparison of spinning the bucket and the water staying in. If the bucket was facing outward the water would spill out.

The atmosphere is definetly not holding us down (it only weighs 15 lbs) and the pressure is pretty much equalll all around. If that were so, then if you jumped you would leave the planet.

magnets work because they have like particals travelling at high speed in the same pattern. The particals are similar in size and speed, so they line up to compliment each other. the more the material. the more particals are traveling at the same pattern, the stronger the magnetism.

pi X 93 million miles² / 1 year

What in the universe has the area of a circle the radius of the Earths orbit around the Sun got to do with its speed? Don't you mean

Speed = 2π r / 1 year = 66,660mph

Hi Masu

You got that nice color now.

There is this angular velocity and circuilar velocity and perhaps a linear velocity of expanding universe which I disagree. to me everything looks circuilar or elliptical or parabola at best or may be spiral but sure not linear. For our little minds, assuming that it is all linear then that is rather simple to look at.

"You got that nice color now."

Yes somebody else stared using my avatar so I decided to change it a bit to stop confusion. I am starting to think blue would be a better. With some of the posts lately, not yours by the way, I feel I have been talking till I am blue in the face with no real result.

Great, If Hubble Telescope was pointing at your awtar then it will see lots of expanding contracting unverses. Are you jumping over gallaxies to save your soul from some one? I hope that is not me.

Did you notice that the pressure is an imaginary stuff and only an experience of the impact. There is actually nothing like pressure in vacuum or vacuum suction etc. Vacuum can never suck. It is the material that pushed itself into vacuum and is the cause of pressure or material with linear momentum moves into space.

Vacuum suction is like vacuum pulling the universe in itself. Space is material hungry. Sounds very funny logic. Fact is that any thing that has energy builds pressure or develops a capability to fill space. If there is a way then it moves into space.

Perhaps our expanding universe does not have a way out so it is inside an imaginary balloon. Virtually with capability to expand not just not able to do so. It is not allowed to move beyond the imaginary balloon. Think that this balloon is tied with gravitational strings and is a repulsive force for our matter. Any matter reaching the limit will bounce back into our universe.What makes this property is yet to be found out. Like nuclear forces that binds nucleus, electrons are bound to atom, planets are bound to solar systems and stars are boud to gallaxies and gallaxies are bound to our balloon. Perhaps there is something that is also bound to balloon out-side of our universe. Our universe itself must have spin and something may also spin out universe. What is that thing? Perhaps something that escaped the repulse forve of the universe and has attractive force to balloon boundary and is different type of matter than that of our universe. This means our universe is far bigger than balloon itself. Then perhaps there are universes of this kind forming gallaxies or universes. Those we can not reach as there is limit for us to cross the balloon. We need different matter to cross the balloon. What if something tunnels into our universe from outside? We may find strenge matter which may move as an oscillatory boundary of our universe like the rings of saturn. We have no way to reach it unless it comes with high energy and is non interactive particle. We should look for these high energy particles that have repulsive gravitational force. They may have charge or may not have charge, they may have very small mass to tunnel through our balloon. One day you will find these particles for sure and then just remember Shyam. They have come from out side of our universe and are not part of us.

"If Hubble Telescope was pointing at your awtar then it will see lots of expanding contracting unverses."

I think the reason I have gone blue in the face and my eyes are all bloodshot is due to the rising levels of CO₂ in the atmosphere from all the fossil fuels we keep burning. But then again it could because I was trying to run away form some other threads, at close to light speed, where it's like talking till your blue in the face and I have now turned around and come back to a thread like this where my comments are appreciated.

"Perhaps our expanding universe does not have a way out so it is inside an imaginary balloon."

Well sort of because our universe expands it creates the space and time that the matter then tries to fill. It's sort of along the same lines as the question;

"What happened before the big bang to start it off?"

To which the answer is since the big bang created all the space, energy, matter and time you can't have before since time didn't exist. It like absolute zero and a vacuum once you remove all the energy it can't get any colder and once you remove all the matter the there is nothing left to remove so the vacuum cant get any emptier. Doesn't the universe do strange things when you start to talk about the extremes?

Dear Masu

Can you ever generate energy out of nothing? Under which law of Physics you can do that? I don't mind if you write a new law of Physics. I can digest that too. If you can start from zero then you can also make it vanish into zero. Tell me how will you do that? All energy = 0.

I have a way out and I have talked about it also.

I am not saying that the universe came from nothing but rather the dimensions of space and time plus matter and energy didn't exist at the time of the big bang. From what I have read shortly after the big bang there were 11 dimensions 7 of which collapsed leaving us with the 4 we have now. The problem is that it is extremely difficult for us to comprehend something without time and that's where it gets really hard. I don't understand it myself but I am reading Jorrie's book in an attempt to get a better understanding and grasp of what is going on.

Pressure by definition is force per unit area. Idea was to define flow by pressure difference. If one particle is moving in vacuum then what is the pressure difference that makes it to do so. One definition is not valid for another. What is happening in near earth zone under gravity is rather different that what is seen as gallaxies in the expanding universe. there is no such pressure for expanding universe and perhaps the gavity of the entire universe put together may also be different than what we know here on earth. We are not yet near any massive anti gravity force. That NASA will announce some time later after they read it here. I predict anti-gravity matter and zero gravity matter different from our matter.