Better Have Good Intent!

I sort of agree with the general content of the code and as one of the older generation that may have (normal) illegal substances at home I would not fear the code.

The style of the code however is unsatisfactorily.

The code writers will do better if they introduce understandable logic into the code.

I have started changing one paragraph of the code as an example. I know that more simplification and improvements can be done

(B) In a prosecution under this section,
(1) it is not necessary to allege or prove that
a) the offender assembled or
b) possessed all chemicals necessary to manufacture a controlled substance in schedule I or II. or
c) The assembly or possession of a single chemical that may be used in the manufacture of a controlled substance in schedule I or II,
with the intent to manufacture a controlled substance in either schedule, is sufficient to violate this section.

The intention of this section is simply to be able convict any person in the drug production line.

The intention of this section is simply to be able convict any person in the drug production line.

Including the helpful man at the Ace Hardware store?

Milo

Unfortunately simple laws are policed by simple people who are blind to the obvious stupid problems that arise from poorly formulated legislation .

This is a world wide problem, example : A city council in Sydney fined a shop for putting 2 pots of flowers in front of the shop because they had not applied for planning permission.!! You would have to despair that the inspector could not apply some reasonable judgement without turning it into a federal case.

One cannot police unfulfilled intent.

See "Minority Report".

If you think that's bad, you should see the Natural Products legislation that Harper's government tried to push through in Canada. They redefined "sale" to include a gift to one or more persons, and would have made everything from garlic to pickles potentially to be seized without a warrant, not at point of sale, at point of gift, or where it's growing in your garden... Subject to something on the order of quarter million dollar fines, applicable to serving mint tea to your neighbour. It would be illegal to harvest herbs from your garden without a license, irrespective of any suspected or actual harm. What kind of law is that???

After reading a fair bit of legislation the last couple of years, I am convinced that elections should be campaigned on the demonstrated capacity of the party to formulate useful, meaningful legislation that doesn't violate the Charter of Rights and is actually applicable to protecting our rights from infringement.

Think about it. The actual "WMD" in 9-11 were boxcutters in the hands of fanatics. There's no law applicable to "boxcutters" that's going to stop this threat (other than taking your nailclippers and shampoo, shoes etc etc before getting on a plane of course ). It's the "fanatics" in the equation that makes the difference...

I wonder what kind of evidence would substantiate "bad intent" in a court of law. I don't think "we suspected" or "we think so" is going to cut it.

I'm still just completely aghast that your Grandma and Grandpa were drug trafficking. I mean...who would have suspected?

Like much of the legislation from the War on Drugs, fundamentally flawed at the outset.

Wasn't that long ago, the average citizen could walk into a hardware store to buy dynamite by the stick or the crate. Stumps and stones had to be moved.

Then under the banner of the War on (insert here) Communists, anarchists, etc that was made illegal, too.

Hi Milo

Looking at the code again - it does seem to afford teeth were no teeth should be present.

I know about the Miranda but not enough about the American criminal investigation system to really understand your law. The closest I got was reading Perry Mason books in the 60's.

In SA we have this system and I was wondering if other countries affords the same opportunity.

Before any Act, Regulations (code or anything carrying the force of law) is introduced A draft must be published for public comment. The comments received must be considered.

The rest of the process includes a public hearing where one can air your concerns before a portfolio committee.

I made it my hobby to comment on law and had were rewarded with some successes in tempering excessive powers or just made the law clearer for subjects to understand.

I even once commented on existing law and they had a look at it and changed it.

My motto is :- If you don't uses the opportunity of commenting you should not complain about unjust law.

We have a similar opportunity here in the US.

It is little used, and frequently only by those paid to pursue a single issue.

Thanks to all for the well thought out comments, even those about my grandparents!

milo

It is a pity.

Although I am doing it as a hobby for free it landed me a job as legal advisor to firms of lawyers and advocates when I retire at the end of the month.

Technical logic is like 4 Aces against a pair of the legal profession.

Good on ya Hendrik, we need more like you in our country and methinks we will be in even more need of people like you shortly.

another "probable cause" you have drain cleaner that means there must be a drugs ring somewhere.

I hope for your sake that you don't have Hemp growing wildly in your garden

Dont worry, we in Australia have just joined the party. In nearly half of the states in this country we have, this week, just made bikie clubs illegal, association with anyone in a club illegal, showing anything remotely like club colors illegal and punishable by 2yrs 1st offence, 5yrs 2nd offence. We do not have a bill of rights, hence we have no rights. Even if the filth THINK you might know of someone in a bikie club, its the cells first and try to make it stick second. Might see some interesting court cases in near future, cant keep hitting innocent people around the head with a porcupine fish, its immoral.

Rok

Dear Guest.

I live in Oz too, and haven't seen or heard about anything of the sort.

There may have been a few letters to the editor suggesting it, but at the moment the cross country transportation of the various drugs is quite safe.

Add to this the law about "obstructing a policeman in the course of his duty" which is defined as if he thinks you are obstructing him, then you are guilty.

A prominent criminal lawyer I spoke to reckons that because of the way that law is written, it is almost impossible to avoid being convicted. Even if you have done nothing, the cop is free to assert you should have, therefore you are obstructing him.

You may not have such an extreme version of this law in Victoria, but there will be an equivalent.

Whatever happened to having to obtain proof of committing a crime, rather than assuming that if you could have done a crime you must prove you wouldn't have?

A policeman's word takes precedence over the citizen's word in court for one reason only: they are the ones who made the report: they have all the documentation. By the time you get to court, any discrepancies between your version and theirs can be attributed to your faulty memory.

The best thing to do: if you can't make videotape or audiotape of the police interview, make notes just as they are doing. And if you can't make notes during the 'interview', make notes as soon afterwards as you can lay hand on a pen and paper: write down everything you remember was done or said, and sign and date it.

It's a sad fact that power corrupts. Every illegitimate law is a drop in that cup of temptation.

Nice.

milo

It really is a pain!

I've made homemade olives, both from my own trees and from others, for quite a few years. It was quite a shock about three years ago to find that I can't go down to the store and buy lye for processing my olives! All because of meth...

Now I've found a source for the lye, but the olive fruit fly has moved in, and my olives aren't worth processing...

Is water one of the "chemicals" used in producing meth?

No. Its a by product.But duct tape, coffee filters, tubing, and pop bottles are equipment used 99% of the time...