Aesthetic Wind-Powered Water Tower Project in Addison, TX

Great thread, Tinker65. Have you ever heard of Wind Turbine Syndrome? I blogged about it recently.

Speaking of blogging, do you do any yourself?

Moose

Thanks for your interest.

My online blogs are:
Metroplex Alternative Energy Caucus: http://dfw-alt-e-caucus.blogspot.com/

Then there is The PC Basics blog: J. W's Keyboard & Mouse Tips at http://www.pc-basics.blogspot.com/.

I also collaborate with assorted relatives on a couple genealogy webs.

Most of my daylight hours are spent outside doing honey do-it projects, some volunteer work for friends and community and still I find time to tinker on gadgets made from (cobbled together from) recycled parts scrounged from the junk piles of industrial operations back lots and auto salvage yards. I truly believe we Americans do not grasp the concept of environmentaly friendly recycling; which for me is, "Use it up! Use it in a new way! And then, (just maybe) if you can't think of what else to do with it; Recycle it." After my wife got over how fanatical I became at recycling she jumped onboard and now we have about a small desk side trash can sized bag of trash and line the streets with our recycle refuse on trash day.
At the end of the day - I help clean dental offices to assist my past retirement wife. Otherwise I'd get bored. jwr

Hmmm, I am staring at that structure thinking *something* should be done with the tower.

What are you saying? A little too phallic for Texas?

Good joke Chris. No, it's supposed to look like a wine goblet, according to their PR.

One could arguably label me a wind turbine maven. Below are posts that address pro's and con's for this burgeoning electric generation industry. Not all of what are posted are pro-wind turbine in nature. Like all alternative energy industries, the engineering and the economic consequences of wind turbines and wind farms are still just coming into the light.

Their environment impacts, once focused on bird hazard potential, are now expanded to human health issues, as well. As a result, I have dropped tower mounted turbines from my quiver as an urbane area alternative electric generation solution and now favor low speed, high torque vertical or horizontal, high aspect ratio slat blade types (similar to blower wheels in air conditioning systems) because they are quiet and can handle structurally induced turbulance; unless they are miles and miles from everyday view and hearing.

R.E., Wind Turbine Experiences http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/30077
Comment #11 Wind turbine visual shuttering problems and down wind sounds Reference video link: http://www.youtube.com/philbloomstein
The YouTuber's recommendation is minimum 3,000 feet (3/5ths of a mile) minimum set back. No recommendation for visual shuttering problems set back. One would assume that one should have some sort of structure or vegetation block their view of turbine shadows especially at sun up and sun down when their shadows can reach quite far.

According to the thread named "Are Wind Turbines Hazardous to Your Health?" Industrial wind machines may cause ringing in the ears (tinnitus). r.e., http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/8351

In the thread: Windmill on a Kite http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/33795#21 I made the point that there are no standards that rate the viability of electric power from wind farms. Distance to consumer markets is also a factor that has been successfully exploited by the oil industry in Texas taking advantage of suplus electric energy during night time operations when demand is down but the wind is constently stronger in their wind zones 3 and 4 neck of the woods; all made possible by the subsization process (Taxes which guarantee the wind farms make money for their investors, the oil business makes millions in windfall profits and the tax payers remain clueless that we've have been ripped off with the blessings of the public utility commission by their tacit silence on this thorny issue.).

Addison, Texas has let bids for water tower powered by wind turbines. Yesterday I started a new thread dedicated to improvements on their out of the start gate design concept. I believe that great idea could stand some improvements such as installing water turbine generators at its base, to scavenge electric energy when the water is flowing back into the city water system; and a horizontal generator powered by low speed, high torque (quiet) vanes rotating around the entire outside of the wine-glass goblet shaped water storage tank. Here is a link to that thread.
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/35864

Last but not least, "Windmills on a Kite" solves the problem of tinnitus and shuttering, it would appear: http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/33795

You cannot get TOO phallic for Texas (used to live there).

No, I was ruminating over how to use the tower (slotted) with a turbine inside...mush in my head

edignan; I believe that Addison's great idea could stand some improvements such as installing water turbine generators at its base, to scavenge electric energy when the water is flowing back into the city water system (An impeller located inside the discharge caisson, with an offset gear and shaft out the side of the caisson coupled to a infinite speed transmission and a gen-set coupled to that, is what I mean); and a horizontal generator powered by low speed, high torque (quiet) vanes rotating around the entire outside of the wine-glass goblet shaped water storage tank. It could be greenest and the most Avant Gard water tower on earth!

P.S., I haven't the image rendering skills to post a picture of this concept and am hoping that a mutual wind maven, chrisg288, will cobble one together and post it here. hint hint

I've been asked on the aside to flesh out the original concept with a crude drawing. Here it is - best I could do with a pen, paper and then photo shop cleanup. The images and links work, too. Tinker65

Upgrades to the Aesthetic Water Tower Being Proposed by the City of Addison, Texas

These are suggested improvements in design incorporating more robust use of the energy to be gained by wind power and discharged water power.

Instead of noisy and optically distracting mast mounted turbines; they could consider one or two three-phase 440 volt generators powered by multiple external, high aspect ratio air foils rotating around the outside of the cistern.

If the vanes were of a contrasting color to the cistern shell, they could be lighted at night and under natural sunlight during the day for a stunning visual statement from great distances.

These air foils could be swept, top to bottom somewhat, complementing the original concept and improving turning efficiencies while reducing sound levels of an already proven vertical, low speed, high torque design model, as well. At the tower's base they could scavenge energy back into the net-grid when discharging large amounts of water back into the city water supply, as well.

Click for a clear, detailed view of this concept.

The address of this webpage is http://www.green-metroplex.com/Wind/Addison_Tower.html

Suggested by J. Warren Richardson, jwarrenr@rocketmail.com

Dear JWR,

I think the idea is interesting, and will put together some images for you (as soon as I get a minute)

but with the turbine in the bottom.. I think that if you have spent electricity to pump water up into the tower, what is the sense in trying to convert that water back into electricity, unless you have an energy storage requirment to offset peak load energy? The wind part is great, because the energy is free (sort of)

Are you the web administrator for your site?

Chris

Good question(s) chrisg288

As I understand it, the supply water of a municipal water tower is primarily gravity feed only. The water draining down from the reservoir above has never, to my knowledge, been considered an alternative source of energy. Water pumps, lighting, maintenance facility needs are all fed from a electric utility grid. Their is no "net-grid" hook up in a cookie cutter water tower operation.

Me being me, I've seen that the emperor has no clothes and I say - put some impellers on, y'all! I consider every water tower ever built to be a source of gravity fed power generation. Granted, one is not going to get as much energy back as it takes to put the head of water above - but one could expect SOME energy recovery, especially during electrical peak demand when the commercial rates for power is at a premium. A savey public works administrator would make it a policy to charge the tank with water only at night after the rates for electricity are at their lowest; the gen-set would make up some of the cost of electricity during the day when the rates are highest. Over the life of the tower an impeller/transmission/gen-set would more than pay for its capital outlay and save tons of carbon emissions in the process by way of savings of some fraction for electric water pump demand, local lighting, power for municipal repair shop tools, etc.

The pedestal of a water tower is a shroud. Inside and they are a steel strut and box truss structure covered for support. They add resistance to wind loading and angular bracing and to make it look more pleasing to the eye of neighbors. Inside are more than one water pump, for redundancy and maintenance. Older water towers still have their struts and girders exposed and are often the target of adverse city council complaints by individuals that have encroached into the suburbs where they were placed.

The point is that there is room to work on improved infrastructure, such as a scavenging impeller, inside a discharge pipe, inside of the shroud, out of sight. If the pedestal is too small, a small building attached but offset from the base could contain a transmission and generator set with automatic synchronization controls and a contactor, to connect it to the load side of the net-grid (on the load side of the electric meter.). One assumes from the start that this auxiliary alternative system will not make all the electricity that it will need for its pumps, local lighting, etc. Ergo, it has to be tied into the net-grid. The target is to reduce operational cost (and by so doing, reduce the water tower's carbon footprint). It is not about commercial or economic profit. It very well IS about reduced operational cost.

The purpose of putting the water up into the air in a water tower is to create both a reservoir and to create head pressure, especially when the demand for water exceeds the water pump maximum make up capacity.

An impeller coupled to a variable speed transmission, fed by the draining water, can then automatically maintain the 60 Hz r.p.m. needed by net-grid synced generators to remain online, permanently. As the head pressure drops during peak demand periods, the impeller will gradually start to slow somewhat. The transmission will adjust up wards and the generator will just make less than its capacity of electricity, but still be able to produce it at a steady 60 Hz. The impeller will be in a set aside supply pipe of course, not in a refill pipe up to the reservoir above. As the generator produces less and less power, the net-grid will make up the facility's water pump and lighting shortfall; spinning the meter forward faster, in so many words. But the amount of electricity purchased from the utility company will be significantly less than if there were no scavenging generators in the loop.

Add in the wind turbine, too, and you may (just maybe) see the meter turn backwards on occasion - who knows? The point is - here in a zone 2 area - there is no plausible way to make back all the costs of operation of a wind turbine system. However - Addison's city council can still look their tax paying constituents in the eye and say the cost is justified in that this water tower will cost less to operate than any other of its capacity, anywhere and it will save TONs of CO2 emissions in the bargain. And oh, bye the way? It will be a knockout crowd stopper to watch in operation, anytime, day or night.

Chris, as to your last question, I am sole owner and webmaster of www.green-metroplex.com If you or anyone has questions about the definitions of any of the terms above - use my websites' search tool for terms like net-grid, carbon footprint, etc., and you'll find definitions to these terms and hundreds of other, cross referenced, alternative and eco friendly words, resources and issues and further links to information and solutions related to our planet's citizens common need to go green. There are also off-topic web pages related to anecdotal interests and rants - but you have to look hard to find them. The full-sized pictures linked by thumbnails posted on the CR4 threads are stored there, too.

Thank you for asking. J. Warren Richardson, green advocate, a.k.a. Tinker65

JWR,

thank you for the great answer... I've been looking at different structures in books, web, and mind.. and I'm just wondering.. are the new proposals required to keep any of the existing water tower structure in the proposal? I'm sure I'm missing some information I should know.. so forgive me for asking dumb questions.. but do I have to conform to the wine glass shape? or can I throw something completely new out there.. thank you for your diagram..and I will put an image together for yours... I am not saying I have any improvements at the moment.. but just in case.. it would be helpful to know the full intent and scope of the city planners.

thanks,

Chris

Okay Cris, and thanks,

The Pub Works Director has not, as yet replied to my email inquiry, nor has their mayor, albeit the email was sent on Friday last as I recall. I intend to get them on the phone in a couple days, otherwise. Meanwhile, here is their link to what they have for public consumption and what I originally was apprised of, at any rate.

"For more information on this exciting project, click here."

The thrust bearing supporting the lower portion of the wind vanes, under the egg, can be cogged on the inside such that another bearing inside, mated through a slot in the shroud could have a shaft running down the length of the bottom portion to the transmission feeding constant speed to the generator at the ground elevation. Near as I can tell Addison wants that wine glass shape; I deduce that it lends itself to greatest water capacity at highest head. I'll be sure to get an answer about that when dialogue starts up with their Pub Work Director. Okay? Thanks for any voluntary help and being a sounding board. And, oh yes, thanks for crystallizing these ideas for me with your posts on other threads - it's your fault you very well know

I may be guilty of being crazy too.. you never know...

but if you are in zone 2.. why do you not propose a solar companion to the water tower?

btw.. I see you have a neighboring town named after you! (Richardson)

Chris

The latest hot set up for wind turbines is to make them direct drive with permanent magnets as exciters for their DC output generators - then run whatever output generated through a synced inverter. Wow! NO Planetary Gear Train at all! What a jump in efficiencies and ANY RPM 'cept dead zero produces SOME output. I'm already looking at my Siemens and GE stock positions with an eye to the boost this will undoubtedly be for two major inverter manufactures. ;-)

Over the life of the tower an impeller/transmission/gen-set would more than pay for its capital outlay

Oh MY do I have questions

1. Since every inch above ground that you place that tower cost more money, would the tower not be *just* high enough to provide the necessary pressure to the users?

2. Would sticking an impeller into that water stream reduce both the flow rate and therefore the *felt* head pressure?

3. Will an impeller inserted into the captive stream not be dependent on how many people are currently taking a shower, how many firemen are fighting fires?

Not busting your chops, just things to consider...

edignan

All good questions - my chops are intact.

Their PR page states the below factoids. They set the hight requirements. Capacity reduction issues, from my mechanical background, are handled by proper up-sizing to include the restriction factors caused by the parasitic drag the impeller, throttled by a load, will create. I don't have the hydraulic tables to refer to, and don't know how to use them in this application, at this time. The point of infinite/variable/constant output speed transmissions is to take whatever energy the impeller can get at any speed and transform that into a constant, relentless r.p.m. that the generator needs to make 60 Hz single or three phase electric power. (I prefer, in my minds eye, 3 phase, 440 volt because that is the most efficient and simplest setup and match for commercially fed electricity usually; from a three phase Delta-T or Y transformer supplying electricity from their utility company.).

They'll be just flushing 1.5 million gallons down the pipe without recovering one nickel of savings for any of it if they DO NOT install an impeller powered gen-set, otherwise. The impeller housing, constant speed transmission, generator set and controllers are all off the shelf and will all be at ground level. The Vertical Wind Vanes' bottom Thrust Bearing should be cogged on the inside and a power take-off gear could mate with that and a shaft, properly built with U joints and support bearings would take the wind vane energy down to the ground level inside the bottom shroud, as well, to another constant speed transmission at ground level along with gent-set, controller, etc. All the electric cabling will be underground for a clean, uncluttered, finished project.

Addison's Proposed Water Tower

The point of using a vertical axis wind vane design is that, being low speed they are much quieter than standard wind turbines which have been proven to cause health issue if one stays closer than 3,000 feet from them over extended periods and have been known to cause epilepsy from their blinking/shuttering shadows in rare cases. They don't kill luckless birds that fly through them because they are not moving at ball bat speeds like conventional turbines do. Being a curved, swept vertical wind vane design, they are a proven design that can handle the turbulence swirling around the water cistern without incident, too. There are these and other issues already covered in other threads.

R.E., Wind Turbine Experiences http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/30077
Comment #11 Wind turbine visual shuttering problems and down wind sounds Reference video link: http://www.youtube.com/philbloomstein
The YouTuber's recommendation is minimum 3,000 feet (3/5ths of a mile) minimum set back. No recommendation for visual shuttering problems set back. One would assume that one should have some sort of structure or vegetation block their view of turbine shadows especially at sun up and sun down when their shadows can reach quite far.

According to the thread named "Are Wind Turbines Hazardous to Your Health?" Industrial wind machines may cause ringing in the ears (tinnitus). r.e., http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/8351

Very stylish.

:)

This wind-powered water tower seems so coool!!