Water pump placement (over my head)

Someone I know suggested a slight improvement to that idea.

The return pipe must be made smaller than the down pipe and in that way increase the return pressure to above the inlet pressure and thereby creating additional power.

Unfortunately that would not work.

A ram pump can however deliver a small portion of the down flow against a much higher head than available at the inlet of the down pipe. Very handy but the sustainable output in a closed loop will be zero,

Cut out the middle man and use a wind driven pump.
or a small DC pump and a solar array.
It's an odd friend who cooks up ideas and expects you to do his experiments...
I certainly don't want you to make may next bow for me .
Del

A wind driven pump is exactly my idea!

FYI : I would like to introduce that I have another Water Pump Without Motor Driver. over head Flowing 'till 150 Meter Vertically. Detail Pattern of Mfg/Construction I have. It has been successfully operated. Any interest and Inquiry, Pls. inform me. Goodluck & Thankx.

How do you want to push up the water to second floor ?

Putting a pump to suck in the water will create too low suction pressure NPSH and is not preferable for 2 - 3 floors. So better to push up the water from ground level to a top tank.

From tank use a pipe to create a gravity flow for your watering plants = why really you need the pressure (unless it is for some fountains ? )

This pipe can be made of varying sections or the flow in sections can be controlled through orifices so that all the portion get balanced water and some pressure.

The pump can be started on and off automatically based on the reservoir level Low/ High floats.

In Simple It's Work : 1. From a Dam water flow down (About 25deg) in Pipe Conection. 2. This will reslulting A water Hammer (say Tsunami) in the pipe, in immediatly A Valve inside the pipe stoped when the water flow. 3. This condition create a High Pressure of the water than push the Water in a Tube (Can) on the top of the Valve. 4. When the water inside of the Tube (Can) is full in Equilibrium and the water inside of the Intake Pipe have no power to flow, The Valve inside of the Tube (Can) will close down by gravity & The valve in The Pipe will fall down open by the gravity. 5. The Water in Intake Pipe will flow again. 6. Back to No.1 All the detail with our Eng. calculations, say sorry I can not expose it here. Hoping that is enaough, but anyway may I explane it in another condition. Thank's.

agung jetantik

"sorry I can not expose it here"

Your (say Tsunami) hydraulic ram pump is known to man for quite a while now, I have seen one in operation almost 60 years ago.

It is an amazing thing to watch because it almost seems like it obtain power from thin air.

Google it and compare notes!

If you have a design that does away with the excessive waste flow discharges you may have a winner.

Thankx. May I invite you to check in http://www.linkedin.com/in/trishulaindonesia or in my facebook (Agung Jelantik) and I looking forward your advice. Kindly Regard.

and . . hereby I would to invite you to visit http://www.linkedin.com/in/trishulaindonesia to see the pump that I mean. But Sorry, in Indonesian. Thankx.

There is a top tank collecting rain water as a first step already. The real goal of bringing the some water up is the fertilizer in said water created by the vertical fish farm on the ground level. I was thinking of sucking the the water up and thanks to sb for introducing the NPSH issue of having the pump up top.

I also realize how incomplete my question was at first!

Attempting to be clear: With a small roof tank, and a tall, potentially very tall, tank on the ground floor, we want to move some light sewage from the bottom of the big tank up to the roof.....

Shouldn't there be a point significantly off the ground where the pressure from the big tank "feeds" (good NPSH) , say, a cylinder or peristaltic pump? As a function of the height of the big tank?

or alternately,

"Stacking", hydraulically, the roof tank on the big tank would give us siphon action to control from the roof, as long as the run ends below the roof tank?

Again, many thanks for your time and attention to my vague, ignorant rambling.

Water shall allways seek its own level. Having top tank flow down and mix with light sewage in bottom tank, raises furtilisier to same water level in top tank, then a third pipe going down with holes in it delivers the fertiliser to each desired level. Drill holes at appropiate sizing to ensure water discharge at bottom is not so great as to take away any discharge at top level

As I understand your scheme is like this

In this case you have to understand that

a) The amount of flow in from the top tank will not be able to push the fertiliser (heavier than water and of course solid) up the pipe. You will need certain velocity on this pipe which your inlet pipe may not be able to feed. If it can (get a large pipe for feeding - intermittently and a smaller drain pipe) then you don't need a pump may be. Just the gravity will do the trick.

b) In that is not possible then you may have the pump at any level below the first opening to push the slurry rather than sucking it. You don't get anything by sucking it. The pump any way will work based on its work done , which is proportional to its quantity pumped and the pressure difference created if you start with a positive head (by putting it at the bottom) then of course you need a lesser head..

c) Ensure you don't suck in the fishes and the water level do not deplete

d) The pump should be able to suck in the mud.

I don't see any way of transporting the mud up unless you pump it. Gravity etc will not be able to create sufficient velocity.. Also the pipes and the orifices may get choked.

You're right and the otherhand I did that the pump is in work. By the 6" pipe as inlet conecting water from a Dam into the Pump (Dam position 3 Mtr High than pump by the distance about 24 Meter). Is enough get a potezial energy from the water sliding inside of the Intake Pipe by gravity. . . and at the end 'cause The Valve is Open & Clossed Systems, resume resulting Potezial Energy of Water pushing (pumping) the water (about 10Ltr/Sec.), as 50% to the OutLet Pipe to the Reservoir Dam about 100 Meter vertically (Overhead) or about 2 KM distance (if the overhead is 45Deg posision) and 50% flow out to the river. I'm very interest to make any discussion about it, to improve it. How can I show up that the pumps is actually work ? I'm looking forward your advices and Thankx. Kindly Regard : Google Search : agung jelantik or trishula indonesia

Just FYI additional : http://trishulaindonesia.blogspot.com/

drawing good. you no working with sump pump?

I am very grateful for the advice sb, and will heed it.

Why you not give guru rate for good answer???