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Anonymous Poster

Space junk

04/04/2009 6:16 AM

Would it be possible for satellites to carry enough extra fuel to kick them out of orbit at the end of their life so they drift off into space instead of hanging around attached to earth and cluttering the place up.

Same for the booster rockets, surely they could carry enough fuel on board so that after they've deployed their satellites they could have just enough extra fuel to point themselves out into space and hit the GO button.

It would be better than bringing them back to earth, with all that that entails.

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#1

Re: Space junk

04/04/2009 8:17 AM

Possible? Yes.

Practical? Depends on who you're talking to.

The extra fuel means the rocket will need to be more powerful to lift the extra weight. That could increase the cost of building them as to make it prohibitive.

Planning the launch so that the booster falls into the ocean is a better idea (one that they're doing already I believe). Putting extra fuel in the satellite is probably not a problem.

Besides, sending them out into space beyond Earth orbit means they will go into orbit around the Sun. A hundred or thousand years later, they may intercept the Earth again and we'd still have the problem ('cept someone else will have to take care of it ).

I imagine that it would be better to build them of such mass and/or material that they will burn completely in the upper atmosphere when they reenter.

This does not address the problem of satellite collisions, however. Any ideas?

regards,

Vulcan

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#2

Re: Space junk

04/04/2009 12:13 PM

they do.

retired satellites are either fired into a "graveyard orbit" where they will perpetually orbit the earth, or shot down, or brought back by the Shuttle, or cremated (allowed to plunge down and burned up by the atmosphere).

please see this highly informative site.

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#3

Re: Space junk

04/04/2009 11:04 PM

I think this is a great idea!.. very responsible and imaginitive thinking... Include the cost of 'recycling' in the initial cost.. wow that is deeeep...

you have done well grasshopper

Chris

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#4

Re: Space junk

04/04/2009 11:22 PM

Ahem, ESCAPE VELOCITY would require, well the amount of fuel used by a saturn V...back in the day??

The small amount of fuel needed to send it back toward atmosphere to incinerate as was posted by others is far more practicable. We track about 8-10,000 larger pieces of space debris, some good facts in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIsubVLN9uE

Some less frightening explanations here: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usspc-fs/space.htm

"USSPACECOM tracks about 8,000 man-made space objects, baseball-size and larger, orbiting Earth. The space objects consist of active/inactive satellites, spent rocket bodies, or fragmentation. About seven percent are operational satellites, 15 percent are rocket bodies, and about 78 percent are fragmentation and inactive satellites.

Most debris (about 84 percent) is out approximately 800 kilometers - roughly twice the normal altitude of the space shuttle which orbits at about 300 kilometers. Only a small amount of debris exists where the shuttle orbits.

The likelihood of a significant collision between a piece of debris (10 centimeters or larger) and the shuttle is extremely remote. The statistical estimate is one chance in 10,000 years, in the worst case. The probability is higher for objects smaller-than-baseball size which currently cannot be tracked with available sensors.

Although 8,000 space objects seems like a large number, in the 800 kilometer band there are normally only three or four items in an area roughly equivalent to the airspace over the continental U.S. up to an altitude of 30,000 feet. Therefore, the likelihood of collision between objects is very small.

Through the SSN, the command tracks and catalogs all space objects orbiting Earth which are 10 centimeters or larger. During shuttle missions, the center computes possible close approaches of other orbiting objects with the shuttle's flight path. NASA is also advised of space objects which come within a safety box that measures 10 by 10 by 50 kilometers of the orbiter."

The artists conceptions make it look more crowded than a tokyo commuter train, The above quote:"in the 800 kilometer band there are normally only three or four items in an area roughly equivalent to the airspace over the continental U.S. up to an altitude of 30,000 feet. " should help appraise the risk.

Good idea to get ' em out of the way. I'd just point em down not out.

milo

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: Space junk

04/05/2009 10:18 PM

Yup. The booster stages are by definition sub-orbital. If the first stage could reach escape velocity there wouldn't be any need for a second or third stage.

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Anonymous Poster
#5

Re: Space junk

04/05/2009 1:33 AM

Thanks to all for good infos, much appreciated.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Space junk

04/05/2009 2:17 AM

Or you could just coat it in a super thermite and when done turn it to vapor. Of course the flash would blind any telescope pointed in that direction and any object to close would get a metallic/silica coating. You would have to make the parts from this stuff to get it to work and no one would want a flash bulb for a satellite or ship part.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Space junk

04/05/2009 7:16 PM

re "coat it in a super thermite and when done turn it to vapor"

Or coat it in a super termite and when done, wake them up!

Termites will devour it in no time!

Tony

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Anonymous Poster
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Space junk

04/06/2009 3:13 AM

If we shot this space junk into space then it is like littering!

We have messed up earth so now lets have a go and see if we can mess up the rest of the universe!

We are the ones that put the junk up there so we should be the ones that have to deal with it!

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#14
In reply to #5

Re: Space junk

04/15/2009 5:37 PM

Welcome, Guest!

ones in a blue moon Guest say Thanks. very well!!!

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#10

Re: Space junk

04/06/2009 9:18 AM

In presence of previous excellent posts, I have only a tidbit to add:

While designing and constructing delivery systems, one essential is to determine that to the best of their ability the manufacturer had designed each part to either de-orbit, or remain attached to a substantial (trackable) chunk.

So when the explosive bolts blow, frequently either end is attached to a bit of retaining wire; when clamshells deploy there is a cable that keeps them attached to "something" depending on the exact situation.

And then for debris that will have to de-orbit, of course there is an entire scenario of mass calculations to determine whether it will burn up or if not, to determine a safe place to drop it (big sky/big ocean theory).

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Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: Space junk

04/06/2009 10:56 AM

I feel I need to be honest & say that I did not bother reading much of the offerings on this thread (kind of busy this morning)- never the less I want to suggest that there be some international committee be formed to extract fees (insurance?) from countries/persons- whomever would venture to leave stuff in space orbit. Maybe a charge according to over all weight (remaining weight?) - this insurance $ can be used to fly 'spacewreckers' here & there to clean up those trashy upper regions... The truth is we should not allow anyone to continue to screw up our cosmological neighborhood! I bet there would be some good money in bringing down some of that high tech stuff- sort of like mining the ocean above for spacely treasures. Carlos "The choices you make might be mistakes but it's never too late to turn around." Johnny Lang-musician

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#12

Re: Space junk

04/07/2009 1:28 PM

One issue is some of that space junk is dangerous to deal with. Spy satellites are classified and possibly failsafed.

Possibly a ballistic blanket rap to contain parts before moving to keep the black ops junk from multiplying. Of course the respective governments will deny all knowledge but will tell you privately to leave it alone both legally and for safety.

Some will be shut down to be activated later. Getting the respective countries to admit ownership will be problematic.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Space junk

04/07/2009 2:00 PM

Hmmm, I wonder if all satellites qualify as "abandoned" under maritime law?

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