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Electrical Noise Within High Speed Counters?

04/12/2009 1:40 AM

Hi guys and/or gals.

I need some integration assistance, basically I am using a high speed counter that is monitoring a hall effect pnp sensor located 90 feet away. The sensor is connected to the counter through a 18/3 conductor red, black, white with shield (screen). Red is 24 vdc positive, black is dc negative, white is a sourcing signal back from the sensor to the counter and shield to signal ground (counter side). Note-the 90 foot conductor is routed through a marine vessel where paralleing of low voltage lines with high voltage lines is possible. The counts at the high speed counter are not accurate and erratic. Do yall believe that noise is an issue, is it possible that the input to the counter is floating and may need a pull down resistor...as you know when your walking through this at times troubleshooting can be a bear, that is why I'm going to you pros. Please help.

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Guru
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#1

Re: Electrical noise within high speed counters?

04/12/2009 4:53 AM

As you have power ground and signal available at the sensor end, I'd suggest a simple buffer with low output impedance (say 50, 100 or 600 ohm whatever you fancy) at the sensor end. At the other end of the cable terminate the signal wire with a 50, 100 or 600 ohm resistor to ground.
This should help....or maybe just a RC network may match it and kill the noise.

You don't actually say what you mean by high speed...on man's 'high speed' is another man's 'snails pace'.

Give us more detail, spec of the sensor (characteristics of the cable?) and I'm sure someone will be able to give you chapter and verse.

Del

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Guru
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#2

Re: Electrical noise within high speed counters?

04/12/2009 9:15 AM

We could be missing important details about your problem.

What's the brand and model of your sensor and your counter? If you can give the specs of your sensor and counter, that might suffice.

You can run a small experiment to find out if your sensor and counter can work together. Just hook them up on your workbench and trigger the sensor with a small motor with a magnet on its shaft.

Another possibility is your sensing distance. If it's exactly at the threshold, vibration could be bringing it out of the sensing distance from time to time.

If you have an oscilloscope, you can view the waveform at the counter's input. If you see noise, there's your problem. If the waveform looks funny, look for the reason. Sometimes a shielded cable will have too much capacitance and tend to filter the sensor's output resulting in a slow rise and fall-time.

Lastly, it might be a simple loose connection. I say "simple" but looking for a loose connection can be anything but. Sometimes, it can be in the most difficult of places to get to.

regards,

Vulcan

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Guru
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#3

Re: Electrical noise within high speed counters?

04/12/2009 9:51 AM

Voltage drop could also be a big issue. Granted, the sensor pulls very little current, but any current on an 18 gauge wire over 180', your length x 2 - which is your full circuit length, will suck your 24 volts low. You may be just at the point where the sensor works or does not. Run some temporary 14 or 12 gauge wire and see if that helps.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Electrical noise within high speed counters?

04/12/2009 11:30 PM

North of 60, thank you, operating voltage is rated between 6 and 30 vdc. In applications like these voltage drop is always considered. But looking at the fundamentals is the right way to go about these inconsistent errors.

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Guru
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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Electrical noise within high speed counters?

04/13/2009 9:33 AM

Thanks for the feedback.

Why not flip the shield ground so it is grounded at the source and see what that does. I have alwys prefered grounding a shield at the source.

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#4

Re: Electrical noise within high speed counters?

04/12/2009 11:22 PM

I think signal should be first limited to desired frequency by RC filter and then can be coupled through impedance matched co-axial cable or twisted pair cable and terminated. If received signal is low then differential amplifier can be used to kill common mode noise. Factories run several km cables and easily send good signal by taking care of common mode noise and impedance mismatch avoidance. There is no reason to leave the standard path and get into trouble.

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#7

Re: Electrical noise within high speed counters?

04/13/2009 11:35 AM

North of 60 has the best simple idea to try. Grounding the shield at the source location ONLY will usually solve this problem for a no cost solution.

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