Squirrel Cage Generator?

River Turbines

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4213223.html

Now using a 90 percent conversion rate of the waters kinetic energy to electrical power and knowing the river flow rate immediately upstream calculate the change in the flow rate of the water.

Wait a second!!! How can that be?

Gavilan

Impeding and diverting is considered a water use in SA and authorisation must be obtained. At the scale you are proposing (10000 units) a license preceded by an environmental assessment will be mandatory. The law in Oz would be similar.

Apart from the raising of the water level upstream the safety of people landing in the stream would be a concern.

But your design can be improved by alternating between eels , squirrels and underwater (natural) solar panels. (That should give AC where power can be increased by transformers.)

Point well taken. In reality I'm only going to be throwing 4 or 5 of these things into the river (a friend of mine owns a heating company and has a bunch of them that he's going to give me). I did exaggerate about putting 10,000 of them in the river, but the point I was trying to make is that the principle could be expanded if it works into a viable, cheap source of electricity. My brother was an injection mold maker for 20 years, and he thinks that you could make a couple of molds and make these things out of polystyrene or some other cheap, safe, durable plastic at a very low cost, especially if the vanes of the fan were flat instead of rounded. It would still spin underwater, and you could mold magnets into the plastic vanes and a wire coil could also be molded into the casing outside the spinning fan blades. The result would be a cheap, simple, safe generator with zero emissions and maintenance. For that matter, they wouldn't have to be submerged and would probably work with wind, but I live by a fairly big river and water seems to be a stronger, more consistent source of energy. I don't know, I'm probably nuts, but if anybody thinks that this might work and make some money and wants to actually try this, let me know. My brother is disabled, but he says he could still make the molds and he's trying to find some way to support himself. Social Security Disability in the US is a joke. The last time he was denied it was because "the patient had dirt under his fingernails and callouses on his hands that indicated he was capable of performing moderate to heavy work". It didn't matter that he can't walk because 5 of the screws in the implants he's had in both legs for 13 years have broken and the jagged edges of the screws dig into his muscle tissue whenever he stands up.

scottandstan@gmail.com

Who says you can't work just because you are wheel chair bound? One of our best employees here is wheel chair bound and can only use one arm. He is a proud man that puts in his eight/day and earns a good living. Your brother had calloused hands and dirt under his fingernails, I expect he is a proud man too and is trying to do the same. Don't marginalize him by expecting the taxpayers to support him.

I understand your point, but one the main reasons I'm putting out these posts is because my brother does want to work. The truth is, when a person applies for a job, especially in an industrial environment, the employers are often concerned about insurance liability issues. I was told this specifically by 2 shop owners who were told that specifically by their insurance companies. If an accident occurs, they might be held liable for my brother's previous injuries. Furthermore, my brother paid into Social Security with every paycheck he made for over 20 years, and the benefits he has been trying to get for over 13 years, which amounts to $502 per month, would be paid for by the money that he himself paid into the Social Security system for over 20 years. His left leg was scheduled for amputation immediately after his accident, but one caring Doctor made the effort (over 10 hours of surgery) to piece his femur back together. Before the surgery, he took me aside and told me that he was going to help my brother because he had seen many cases where limbs were amputated if the patient didn't have insurance because it costs less. I'm not making this up, it's the truth. My brother did work for years after his accident, but 5 of the screws that hold the implants he has had in both legs for 13 years have broken and the jagged edges of the screws dig into his muscle tissue whenever he puts pressure on them, including sitting in his wheel chair. If he had not been denied by Social Security, he could have had this repaired and he would be able to work instead of living in pain and destitute.

I was pinned to a block wall by a 900lb liquid O2 tanks for over 30 mins. After 9 back operations, a 4 way bypass and 2 knee replacements the doctors told me " Son no one wants to hire you, you have to many health problems, start your own business".

So I did . Become a consultant or outside contractors as like like to call us here. I can stop and go la down when I need to take all the meds I needs to and have yet to fail my companys urine test.

I keep forgetting to make myself take one.

dadw5boys -

That's what me and my brother are trying to do, but it ain't easy. I opened a bar for 2 years in Spring Valley, IL called the Full Moon Saloon and the place was packed every night. But, I got sued 3 times and the rest of the money was stolen. Some guy got drunk, grabbed some girl's ass, and her husband bashed the guy's head with a beer bottle. So, they sued me, even though I wasn't even in the place at the time. But thanks for the inspiration, my brother gets very despondent at times and I will read this post to him this morning. Thanks...

Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us.

A dimensional transmutation is mere speculation if the known values equal zero or less.

If i decide to go to the pet store and buy 1000 mice, cages and 1000 'round spinny things' (forgot what they're called - but you get my drift) can i get the mice to produce enough power to power my house if i glued generators on them?

Hang on, what about bikes...and people to work for me peddling?

Dude...why are you trying to reinvent an idea used decades ago?

Ok , Now copy the those cupped vains on to a lenght of pipe to reach across the river.

Place a small coffer damn in the river when the water level is low using something like those concrete traffic dividers.

Place your lenght of pipe with the cupped vains just over the wall on the downstream side.

The water flow over this coffer damn will turn your pipe at a high rate of speed. With mounts and bearing to support the lenght of pipe and a large gear on both ends of the pipe you should be able to run 3 or 4 small generators.

The trash flowing downstream will for the most part be carried over the your pipe by the current. If you make a split system with 1/2 of the pipe lifted for repairs vertical on each side of the river you can make repairs to one while the other remains functional.

I suggested to our local government 5 years ago that we build coffer damns all along the river because of the lack of rain fall and the long drought we are having. These coffer damns would hold back some water during dry periods and help maintain fish levels in the higher stream beds. Too often the fish run south when the water levels drop and once over the several high water falls they are gone for good and we have to restock from hatcherys.

These coffer damn can serve several uses in Eroupe they use them to pump water out to farms. Imagine using water flow to pump water to farms.

There is very little differnce between an old mill and a squirel cage fan. It's mostly the size. However rather than putting a winding, have you considered simply using the pulley that is on the fan attached to a 60 amp (or more) car altenator? Two of these with enough batteries will power an average 2000 SF total electric house with electric heat and AC.

If you put in a water race (divertion ditch) and let the water come over the the fan then you would have less problems with the water level flucuations.

I could see smaller versions of water wheels streching accross the width of a river.

20,30 heck 300 or 1000 such small generators along rivers that have little or no traffic. Even those with white water rafting traffic could be guided to points over the bearing to be washed over the short water falls and the generator arms.

Coffer damns could also solver cities like Alanta drinking water problems by holding back large pockets of water along the rivers during dry spells.

Imagine the torque of a water wheel that streched the width of a river.

Yeah great only a host of regulations standing in the way

If Unemployment gets much higher I bet Regualtions would be relaxed very quickly for someone with the right Business Plan to produce cheap engery.

state incentives: http://www.dsireusa.org.

Federal incentives:

Most federal programs to support renewable energy have tended to focus on solar and wind rather than hydro. There are however some federal incentives that do still apply to using microhydro power.

Public Utilities Regulatory Policy Act of 1978 (PURPA ). PURPA was enacted as part of the National Energy Act of 1978, during a time of unprecedented energy supply instability in the United States. The law requires utilities to purchase energy from non-utility generators or small renewable energy producers that can produce electricity for less than what it would have cost for the utility to generate the power, or the "avoided cost." Although once considered a key incentive for renewable energy, PURPA is less helpful for renewables today due to lower fossil energy prices.

Clean Renewable Energy Bonds (CREBs). Clean Renewable Energy Bonds are tax credit bonds with an interest-free finance rate for governmental bodies (including tribal governments), municipal utilities, and rural electric cooperatives included in the 2005 energy bill. Visit our CREBs Fact Sheet for more information. More information also available at the Public Renewable Partnership website, including a presentation on Public Power and the CREBs program. New Markets Tax Credits (NMTCs)

The New Markets Tax Credit Program. This program provides a credit against Federal income taxes in exchange for making qualified equity investments in designated Community Development Entities (CDEs). The CDE may then invest in renewable energy projects. For more information visit our NMTC Fact Sheet.

Oh one thing I forgot the key to the design of the coffer damns is a Tear Drop shape pressing the water flow towards the center of the river.

What about replacing the motor with an alternator and use the same belt / pulley set-up?

Perhaps there won't be enough force to spin the alternator? You may have to play with the pulley's to get the right gear ratio. How would you have them mounted (to the river) and to accommodate the rising and lowering levels of the water?

Sounds interesting and fun. Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

Josh.

It is very likely that there will be a more efficient blade design for the undershoot water wheel you are talking about, since the squirrel cage fan was designed for use with a much less dense fluid. Rather than an idea that is decades old, this is an idea that has been around for millennia. A good deal of research and trial and error has gone in to the optimization of the appropriate turbine blade configuration. I suspect your squirrel cage fans would be more appropriate as wind generators.

Another issue to consider. I just finished the development of a mini hydro system for a friend in a remote location with good water flow. The cost of the installation (including batteries, plumbing, cabling, electronic controls, etc.) is on the order of $3000 for about 1 kW. The turbine and generator were not even 50% of the total, even though we went with a commercially available unit (which is essentially an automotive alternator directly driven by the turbine).

Now, for a REAL innovative use of your retired squirrel cage fans- convert them to chicken hutches with a collection system for the droppings, and convert the waste to biogas in a digester....

Thanks for all the informative comments. I realize it's an old idea, but the difference is in the integration of modern technology with a proven principle and ending up with something that could actually be used, and even sold. What I want to do is to make the squirrel cage out of a very durable, cheap, green plastic and then molding the magnets into the spinning vanes and molding the surrounding wire coil into the enclosure. This way, you wouldn't even need a generator or alternator, the unit itself would produce electricity with only 2 wires running from it. It would be cheaper, more durable, zero maintenance, zero liability, etc. and installation would be a matter of just throwing it in the river. My brother was an injection mold maker for over 20 years, and he thinks that this could work and it would be very cheap to make after the 2 molds are done. At any rate, in the current economic atmosphere in the US, I would think that it would be possible to find some support and maybe even financial backing for anything that produces energy and is environmentally friendly and could generate income for the US from the rest of the world, especially China. I don't know, you can call me crazy if you want, but if there's anybody out there that would actually like to try this thing, let me know...

ScottandStan@gmail.com

This resource may benefit your endeavor...

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.asp

We are millers from way back when, it was the ten thousand that threw me off.

Del's comment of the benefits of old style tech is pertinent too.

I've got a discussion out there about using the same principle but using it in the ocean to capture the waves. I liked the squirrel cage design because it would spin in one direction even though the current is flowing in both directions. The top blades catch the incoming wave and the bottom blades catch the out going surge. I really think it's a good idea, but I'm so far from an ocean it isn't even funny. You also might look at the axial flux alternator. It would work will well with your molded plastic idea. Take a look at this web site.

http://www.windenergy.nl/website/files/artikelen/AXIAL_FLUX_HowItWorks.pdf

Good luck

A lot of old textile plants in the USA used water turbines and a generator. A synchronous motor or compound motor can be used as a generator. Usually the generator was vertical above the turbine. As they run slow you need a large number of poles. Thirty poles running at 240 rpm this is an example.

This equipment is available used and much cheaper than manufacturing new ones.

The Float method is useful for large streams if you can locate a section about 10 feet long where the stream is fairly consistent in width and depth.

STEP 1: Measure the average depth of the stream. Select a board able to span the width of the stream and mark it at one-foot intervals. Lay the board across the stream, and measure the stream depth at each one-foot interval. To compute the average depth, add all of your measurements together and divide by the number of measurements you made.

STEP 2: Compute the area of the cross section you just measured. Multiply the average depth you just computed by the width of the stream. For example, a 6-foot wide stream with an average depth of 1.5 feet would yield a cross section area of 9 square feet.

STEP 3: Measure the Speed. A good way to measure speed is to mark off about a 10-foot length of the stream that includes the point where you measured the cross section. Remember, you only want to know the speed of the water where you measured the cross section, so the shorter the length of stream you measure, the better. Using a weighted float that can be clearly seen (an orange works well), place it in the stream well upstream of your measurement area, and then use a stopwatch to time how long it takes to cover the length of your measurement section (e.g. 10 feet). The stream speed probably varies across its width, so record the times for various locations and average them.

With these time and distance measurements, you can now compute the water speed. For example, let's assume it took 5 seconds for your float to travel 10 feet: 10 feet / 5 seconds = 2 feet per second, or 2 feet per second x 60 = 120 feet per minute You can then compute flow by multiplying the feet traveled by the cross section area. Using our cross section area and speed examples: 120 feet per minute x 9 square feet = 1,080 cubic feet per minute (cfm) FLOW STEP 4: Correct for Friction. Because the stream bed creates friction against the moving water, the bottom of the stream tends to move a little slower than the top. This means actual flow is a little less than what we computed. By multiplying our result by 0.83, we get a closer approximation of actual flow: 1,080 CFM x 0.83 = 896.4 cfm (cubic feet per minute), or 896.4 CFM / 60 = 14.94 cfs (cubic feet per second)

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU, RED GREEN ?

Google "riparian rights", which is a provision under UK Common Law. In the UK, doing that to a watercourse would require written consent from the Environment Agency. The Admiralty would need to register "no objection", whether the watercourse were navigable or otherwise at that time.

Under the Acts of Parlaiment authorising "statutory navigations", where the river has been engineered to become navigable (Thames, Avon, Severn, Chelmer, Stour, etc.) consent from the relevant navigation authority would be required.

Same as or similar to USA where if a river or stream which otherwise would be navigable if only by kayak said stream may not be fenced off or in anyway restricted of navigation, or words to that effect.

I've known of ranchers whose land was accessible only by air to be penalized or threat of for fencing tributaries; lamebrain butt backwardness at best to show to what extent this type restriction has been applied.