1993 Honda Won't Start in Warm Weather

Is it fuel injected or carbureted?

Do you use wintertime fuel additives?

Use ethanol blended gas in Winter to ensure that moisture in your fuel does not freeze.

Does it crank fast and not start? If it has a carbureter cold weather can hang up your choke and flood the engine causing rapid cranking and no start.

Does it crank normally and not start? If so try some starting fluid in the air intake.

If the battery is not as peppy in the cold due to the extra load of frozen lubricants it may not provide the voltage for the electronics to fire up the ignition during cranking.

If you haven't already, you might consider 5w30 oil for winter weather.

An engine heater will keep your engine at a start-able temperature and cut down on the warm up time.

Jon

1.) fuel injected

2.) yes

3.) either-or was told by person do not use ethanol but beleive he was biased

4.) fast and tries to hit

5.) figured I would do some damage with that

6.) new battery

7.) use 5w30 all the time

8.) in parking lot at work coming off a cold night

Thanks for the comments. Even had a mechanic told me it was low on anti freeze. He very funny

Fast and tries to hit sounds like flooding which is unlikely for injection. Could be caused by a sensor that doesn't like cold?

Got me stumped too.

Try a better mechanic.

Jon

If so try some starting fluid in the air intake.

Is that how a car is supposed to start where you come from?

Hello tit the rabbit,

In answer to "is that how a car is supposed to start......"

This is to check that fuel is getting to the inlet. If the engine will not start but, does, when fuel is squirted into the air inlet, chances are there is a fuel delivery problem, from a sensor not telling the 'DASH' that there is a problem.

bb

• Some petrol-engined vehicles have an automatic choke. The mechanism may be faulty.
• Some petrol engines have a temperature sensor that alters the timing of the spark depending on the engine temperature. The sensor may be faulty.
• Some diesel engines have an automatic pre-heating element. The mechanism may be faulty.

Try those.

How many miles on that engine.

Honda's are usually good for two to three hundred thousand miles but...

Check cylinder pressures. Low compression would absolutely cause hard starting.

Just what do you mean when you say "When the weather gets warm, it will [Start] if I haven't run the battery down or killed it."

Why, in warm weather when it starts, would you have run the battery down? Why, in warm weather would you have killed [Battery?] it?

Do you have a good multi-meter?

First check battery voltage but, do it this way.

Dig in the probes on the cable lugs. Not the battery terminals. If you are getting less than 12+ volts pull the cables off and clean the terminals with a proper terminal cleaner. When they are metal bright apply an anti-oxidant called NoLox or similar which is made for protecting aluminum service cables in houses. You can get it at Home Depot or an electrical supply house.

Look at the cable lugs. Is there any green corrosion creeping from the lug crimp up under the insulation? Vapor from battery acid has a nasty habit of doing that and it creates a high resistance connection between the lug and the cable. Of course crimping is cheap compared to soldering.

Cut them off if so. Actually, for every body, what I am setting out here is the only way to maintain trouble free battery connections.

Buy, at the auto supply house a couple of brass marine lugs which go on the battery terminals, same cleaning and anti-oxidant treatment as for the battery lugs, and present a stud to connect the crimp lug rings you have soldered to the cables in place of the old lugs.

Just as general routine I would do all this on any car even if I didn't suspect electrical problems. You will go years without any battery problems save a failed battery. It is not realized that the black oxide that collects between the battery lug and the battery terminal is an excellent insulator.

But do check the engine compression.

j.

1.) It has over 200 thousand

2.) Haven't checked cyl. pressure.

3.) Killed it means, kicking it, slamming door, cussing it, you know them kind of things.

4.) yes

5.) Took battery to battery shop and had tested.

Thank you

Meat,

Sounds like you have the bases covered.

I have heard of problems related to using starting fluid. It is probably related to using to much. In the old days it could pop the top off of the air cleaner and can take part of the carb with it if there is an ignition problem.

At over 200 thousand miles it might not hurt to use a heavier grade of multi viscosity oil like 10W 30 or 10W 40 during cold periods. 5W is the cold viscosity and 10W would provide more cold starting compression. The higher compression may counter the excess flow from the injectors. It may be worth a try next time you have a cold period.

However, I am still going with "Try a better mechanic."

Jon

Taking the battery to have it tested means nothing.

I assumed a good battery. The reason for the multi-meter was in order to test for high resistance between the battery terminals and the battery cable providing you checked in the manner I set out.

When you took the battery out and then put it back did you use a battery terminal cleaning tool to clean both the battery terminals and the cable lugs?

I also instructed as to other probable causes of high resistance, such as corrosion in the crimps on the lugs on the battery cable ends.

I think you entirely miss the point, point being to determine if there are high resistance connections and a means to eliminate them if there are, or in case you cannot determine if there are.

All that would have cost you maybe ten dollars as opposed to what???..even for one trip to the Honda shop.

High resistance connections are a common and usually elusive cause, even to the Honda shop mechanics who are only parts changers because they generally know nothing about theory, of the kind of problem you report.

As a matter of fact given your trouble report and the mileage Honda should have checked cylinder compression. Maybe they missed an opportunity to sell you a new engine or engine rebuild.

In summer less friction and higher battery voltage because that is the nature of batteries. In winter lower battery voltage just when higher friction may call for just a bit more voltage to the ignition whilst the starter motor is pulling it down.

Nonetheless, at over two hundred thousand I would check cylinder pressure cause with borderline compression you may well have the problems you speak of as well.

j.

Those were some excellent tips for ensuring good battery connections.. can you suggest what a good terminal cleaner and anti-oxidant should be like generically.. I may not be able to get NoLox out here..

and how do you decide the size of the brass lugs ?

Thanks,

Amit.

Amit,

I don't know where you are but any electrical supply house will have a product for use on aluminum service entrance cable to prevent oxidation. I assume the compound is made of grease and a good conductor like carbon or graphite powder of the sort used as a lubricant.

As to terminal cleaning I was suggesting a common tool one end of which is pushed over the battery terminals and rotated to clean them, the other end a round brush to clean the lug that goes over the battery terminal.

For the lugs obviously a crimp lug that can be filled with the wire and solder that will take the wire size involved and have a hole to fit over the marine terminal studs.

In general I was describing procedures to eliminate high resistance connections wherever they may be, for instance between the cable and one of those lousy clamp on repair parts that are used to replace original cable lugs but which are subject to corrosion and invariably cause trouble even if they "look" good.

j.

I don't know if this holds true on Honda's but on Fords the check valves on the fuel lines go bad and let the fuel drain back to the tank. When you crank the engine the fuel pump only runs for a second or so before it shuts off if no fuel pressure is registered. After so many seconds of cranking the fuel system shuts down again to prevent flooding.

Or the fuel pump may not provide adequate pressure for the injectors to squirt it properly.

I assume the fuel system pressure and flow have been checked out?

And the ignition system is in good condition with good wires, has a hot spark while cranking, and the timing is set correctly?

TCM,

This thread is not properly labeled but:

Wouldn't that apply in any weather?

Meatlogger said "I've got a 93 Honda, that in the wintertime if it gets in the teens it will crank over but will not start."

He also said that in warmer weather it works okay.

However, icing of the fuel components could cause what you describe.

Jon

Cold weather.

If it has a ballast resistor in the ignition or fuel pump circuits, check those connection wires, or try replacing the resistors.

The 93 Honda I have is fuel injected. When built, the engine would start in the cold weather. What has changed since the car worked correctly?A cold engine needs a richer mixture to start in the cold. How does the engine get extra fuel? from the same 4 injectors it uses in the warm weather. So there must be something that tolls the injectors to supply more fuel in the cold weather. What can tell the injectors that it is cold? That would be the coolant temperature sensor, and the air temperature sensor.

You could remove the sensors and test the resistance at specific temperatures against the designed resistance. OR, you could spring for 2 new temperature sensors. The temp sensors are the cheapest of the sensors sold. Besides, with 200,000 on it it may have been damaged years ago from an overheated engine.

As a rule, I do not like throwing parts at a problem, but the cost of these sensors does make me think that it would be worth the money to just replace them. Good luck. Please let us know how it goes. ( The test)

A problem I had with my '92 Honda Accord was oil getting onto the spark plugs and causing a no-start condition. The valve cover has rubber seals at the bottom of the spark plug wells. Over time they harden and leak allowing oil to get on the plugs and short them out.

The first step is to check whether the CPU has registered any error codes. If so investigate them. The problem is probably caused by spark or fuel and you should undertake tests to find out which is the problem. Warm the car up and then drive it home. When it will not start use a timing light to see whether you are getting a spark. If the spark is normal then suspect a fuel problem. Since this is a fuel injection engine check the impulse to the injectors because flooding is unlikely with a FI engine.

Dennis Waller

One other thing to check is the Honda's master relay that sends electric power to the fuel pump if you can get the engine to run by spraying some starter fluid (ether) into the air intake (take the cover off the air filter and spray fluid into the hose going to the engine).

Cant say for sure. I just know a number of friends that have the delayed start problem too. Some times they start fine hot or cold other times they don't!

The OP's problem could be a program error in the computer too! I have known several people that have had different cars from different manufacturers have starting problems from corrupted computer systems. They can get random glitches that develop in the code that will tell it to do the wrong things at the wrong times.

I have 19194 Mercury Grand Marquis that has the check engine come on after the engine warms up but it never logs any error codes and does not show any problems even with a diagnostics computer hooked up while out driving. The diagnostics computer agrees the check engine light came on but wont say why.

I swapped the computer with the one from a friends car just to test the problem one weekend and the light stayed off in my car but then his would come on. So its a computer glitch as best as we can determine.

Even though your starter motor is cranking when it's cold, it still may be worn / damaged enough to prevent it giving max cranking speed for that temperature, ie, inefficient starter will cause what you are describing.

Have an auto electrician check it out.

Can't be that as I have been fighting this problem for 3 years. Usually I listen to the forecast and if I know it is going to be that cold I won't drive it or if I do I go out every 3 to 4 hours and start it. It is kind of tempermental. I have had to the Honda shop 4 times, towed twice there and as soon as it is in the shop it starts and they add a part, $ charged and bingo same problem.

How about if you get rid of the darn junk and get a newer car? You keep all these hard workers from performing their daily duties... even though, from the lenght of their answers, I don't think they have any...

Rabbit..

I have friends with newer cars who have the same sort of problems. Because they have bigger and heavier cars, all dependent on that same 12 volt battery, they often cannot even turn the motor much less start it.

My bet would be his problem is either low compression or electrical and by electrical not that esoteric stuff about sensors and computers and etc. Honda's are not usually prey to those sort of failures. They make a first rate piece of machinery and all of the ancillaries, ignition, starter motors, alternators, etc., hold up.

My main bet is electrical but he does not seem to be able to follow the thought about high resistance connections. If it looks tight the general assumption, not just him, is it's o.k. because folks can't conceive of a very, very, thin film of metallic oxide being an insulator.

Further my bet is, even if he put a new battery in, whoever did it did not properly clean and prepare the connections. I know. Watching a mechanic put a new battery in a Honda Accura Integra I owned, I had to make him go back and start over properly cleaning and preparing the connections. And those folks, Walmart, sell a lot of batteries.

j.

Meatlogger,

You have my deepest sympathy for I too have had "unsolvable" issues with vehicles (until they are eventually solved). I may be repeating it, but the best advice is to have it analyzed by an ASE certified master mechanic who is familiar with your specific vehicle. Having both the familiarity and analytical competence to properly troubleshoot your symptoms, they would have the best probability of solving the problem. Often they can go right to the cause because they have seen the problem and have solved it before, or if not can eliminate all the theoretical possibilities by proper testing. Don't assume that just because you take it to a Honda dealer that the mechanic who works on it is capable of solving your problem. You need a doctor, not a nurse (no slight intended). If you can not find a local mechanic who meets the above criteria, talk to your Honda shop about your needs and they should be able to recommend a specialist (maybe someone who worked for them before). My son gets specialty work like this from dealer shops all the time.

As I read your entry, I was hoping someone would have had the exact same problem and could relate their solution to you. So far, no luck! If you like the car and/or can't replace it right now, don't give up. There is a cause (or causes) and once resolved you can continue the benefits you derive from this car. Best wishes.

Hey Uno,

He has been getting that advice from someone who has had those problems on other cars as well as on Honda's and I have been driving and working on my own vehicles since I was sixteen and am now seventy five.

In addition I have worked as an industrial maintenance technician and electrician.

Low voltage direct current, especially battery systems with lots of corrosive battery sulphuric acid vapor around, regularly present those sorts of problems and until he does what I set out for him he won't eliminate that very large possibility.

He will spend a lot of money though.

j.

He said he has a new battery.

He said that in very low temperatures his engine cranks fast like they do when flooded or trying to start. That is not a sign of a poor connection at the battery or at the starter.

He said it works ok on warmer days. A bad connection only on very cold days and not on warmer days?

In a previous post you advised measuring the battery voltage at the clamps, not at the posts, and said if it was less than 12 volts it was a bad connection. You did not say anything about putting a load on the battery. What if the battery was low and the clamp voltage was the same as the battery voltage?

To determine if there is a poor connection between a battery terminal and the cable you take your measurements by connecting the meter across each battery post and the cable (not the clamp) while putting a load on the battery. I use my headlights for the load. There should be a very tiny differential voltage. If there is a significant voltage then it warrants cleaning, replacing or whatever as you suggested.

Oil leaking into the distributer seems common on the SOHC motors. I do not think that would effect the cold starting though.

I have a '94 Honda Accord and this happened to me last September when it was really hot. I walked around trying to find a pay phone and stumbled across an auto repair shop. The guy there said he was just leaving to run an errand said he'd stop by where I was "stranded" and take a look.

After I raised the hood he asked me to go ahead an start it. It started fine. He explained to me that Hondas have what's called an "Ignitor" that display this symptom. When they are failing, they don't work in a hot environment. The ambient heat plus the heat of the engine can cause the intermittent behavior. He said it probably needed to be replaced, but that if it happened again, just let the car sit for awhile and it would probably start up again.

Hope this might be of some help. If you had been driving around in a hot climate and then it wouldn't start again in short period of time, then this is likely the problem.

P.S. I was extrapolating that very cold weather might also cause intermittent behavior of the "ignitor". Sorry for the referral to you driving around in hot weather. It's a winter problem.

"I've got a 93 Honda, that in the wintertime if it gets in the teens it will crank over but will not start. When the weather gets warm, it will, if I haven't run the battery down or killed it. I've had it to the Honda dealers 4 times and of course another part plus $ and presto same problem."

POSSIBLE SOLUTION

I am almost certain that your airflow meter is faulty. When the ambient temp is low the flap in the meter should close in the same manner as an partially closed choke in a carb. engine. Try to choke the engine by closing the air inlet with your palm and releasing your palm alternatively now and again to allow fuel while cranking the engine. This should start the engine . Wish you well. [The title says 'warm weather' ??]

Mel Prasad

wrong if you place your palm over the air intake you will reduce the airflow over the sensor the ecu will read this as no airflow the only time this would arise would be on a stationary engine. thus no fuel would be pumped

if it has an mass airflow meter then the enrichment would be via excess fuel via the injectors or there is sometime an additional injector just for this

Hello MeatLogger,

Hope you are well even though your car isn't?

Several things you can check which may not have been checked already in the Garage..............It sounds like a fuel or electrics problem, so try the stuff below.

You are trying to save the cost of taking it to the garage, and there is some simple stuff that the garage may not have looked for.

I do not know where the sensors are on a Honda, but, if they are easy or 'get attable', take one out, and also loosen the fuel hose from the inlet, and try to start the engine. If the fuel flows OK then that sensor does not work. If the fuel does not flow the sensor is OK so go on to the next sensor. Try all sensors just to eliminate them from the equation.

You should check the electric as advised by Jack. When all is clean cover all connecting surfaces with Petroleum Jelly or Liquid Paraffin before assembly. This will prevent and 'crud' forming and adding resistance to the circuit. I would loosen and 'remake' all electrical connections including the body earth. If the electrical wires to the battery are partly 'eaten' through, replace them.

Let me/us know if any of these things work please?

Take care and good luck.

bb

Hi MeatLogger,

Can I just say your heading on this thread you started is misleading.

You say you car will not start in the summer. But, go on to explain in the message body, it will not start in the winter. Which is it?

bb

my 93 accord did the same crap the difference is that mine had 260000 and i own a repair shop and a tow truck.you have a couple of issues hear 1 even though Honda makes the best engine out there 200000 is a lot of miles and things inside the engine are worn i don't care how well it was taken care of. 2 build up of carbon inside the intake and cylinders absorbs the fuel that is sprayed in on cranking and causes extended start times in any kind of weather.3 this is important.... ethanol is the crappiest additive that i can think of for 3 reasons..1 it does damage rubber and aluminium parts...2 ethanol does not atomise well in cold weather it tends to puddle and puddles don't burn very well...cars that run on alcohol use fuel heaters in the winter or inject gas for cold starts just to get things going,ever go to a race track and see an alcohol funny car...that stuff they squirt in to the air intake is gas/nitro methane if they don't it won't start unless the engine is hot already.3 if to much water gets into the fuel it will turn into a yellow nonburnable mess. with the addition of ethanol in modern fuels we see that it takes less water to make this happen...... I solved my start problem with a block heater,thicker oil (3 qts 10/30 + 1 qt Lucas oil treatment) and a BG fuel service since then as long as i plug it in in the winter it starts right up i sold the car to a good friend of mine and he is still driving it with no isues....and i bought a Honda Odyssey(coming up on 170000)and my friend has pushed the 93 over 290 so good luck