Testing a Master Cylinder

HEY LISTEN UP.

I have just about reached my limit on reasonability. Do you want Jack Jersawitz and I to come over there and share some of our reasonability on you? Jack, you first, I'll meet you there.

CJMcGill You've done it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Is it possible that you or one of your friends has pushed a caliper in during the time you have been diagnosing the issue"

I had to come back one more time and GA you for this insightful/psychic deduction.

Bye.

Alright the verdict is in; I think Lyn said it best when he wrote, 'slap forehead say Doh.' The answer is a little embarrassing but here goes (as my mechanic explained it to me)

One of the sliders on the front left caliper was frozen in place and that was causing most of the problem. He worked on it, got it loose and as he said, "got you back most of your pedal." However he wasn't totally happy with the pedal so he manually adjusted the left rear brakes and now everything is fine. He said the rear brakes are suppose to self adjust but sometimes they don't. So that is the whole of it. Do I feel a little dumb right now, yes. Could I have taken it in to him and saved 3 days of jacking the car up, taking off the wheels, slopping brake fluid all over the driveway, the answer is yes. Knowing what I do know would I have changed anything? NO, I learned so much from this board and working on the brakes that I wouldn't change a thing.(well maybe one or two little things) So thanks again everyone who helped, it is appreciated. BTW he also found out I needed a new lower ball joint and a CV boot, he called because he was worried that the bill was getting up there, he said it would probably run me $350 or so. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I spent that much on brake fluid the last three days

Prepare yourselves for more work. I've been married for 26 years and for 26 years my father in law (who was a very good shade tree mechanic) has had four engines sitting in his garage. (he was a depression era child learned to accept anything offered and never throw anything away, for any reason) I don't know anything about the engines (as to make model, etc) but I'm going to tear into them and try and rebuild one. (nothing to lose if I mess it up I'm out nothing) I will probably be posting on this site again for help.

Well enough rambling, Thanks again appreciate all the brainiacs on this site.

Thanks for the update. Nothing worse than not knowing the answer to a mystery. I think your report deserves two comments:

1. I cannot see how a "frozen caliper" would generate your problem. That would diminish the braking power of the system but not result (to any extent) in a soft pedal. Can anyone enlighten me?

2. The real problem as I see it could have been that your brakes were out of adjustment and that a "retraction spring" kept pulling the pads too far away and that this then led to excessive pedal movement. This is sort of implied in what your mechanic said - but there are two problems with this. First is that your original post implied that the problem had arisen suddenly, and second is that most disc brakes effect their return via the springiness of the rubber seals around the pistons - which by definition is always a relatively fixed amount.

Taking the pad out (not originally stated, and by the way not required if only wear is being checked) would have caused excessive pedal movement the first time the brakes were used, but they should then have pumped up and been OK. Hope it wasn't that on-off glitch that then precipitated all the rest.

Yep, now that I think about it, you are 100% right. Add 1 for good answer.

There can be a lot of twist in a single piston caliper - that I'd under estimated in my original answer, and yes the "retraction spring" (not that there was one) would not pull the pad back.

If you could understand that ranting I sent, you are doing just fine.

heehee... Good work TM3912... I'm glad we could all, 'enlighten, confuse, teach, sidetrack, joke & rubbish each other, & still come out smiling ....

Expect me to stick my nose in again next time you post any of those engine problems... "bring 'em on I say" .. heehee....

Take care of yourself mate..

cheers for now

LOWIQJO

Good for you. And don't forget to send a thank you to that mechanic. He could have sold you a pair of calipers and even spindles.

Now about those engines. Can you identify who manufactured the engines? lets try to ID them before tearing into them. Look for names on the valve covers and air cleaners. Part numbers on the air filters and oil filters. Bring them on.

Then I would suggest you get a good and complete book on engine rebuilding written from a machinists point of view because you will spend a lot of time with engine machinists.

Then there is the matter of tools.

Do you have an engine lift, an engine stand, a torque wrench, a full set of inside and outside micrometers and calipers, feeler gages, a full set of socket wrenches, end and box wrenches, cylinder hones, and of course all the specs on whichever of those engines you choose to work on, and...and...of course a book that completely describes the component parts and workings of an internal combustion engine.

j.

tm3912,

Thanks for the update, that is where the collective learning is cemented into place.

I will also mention that from your last entry, we can deduce that you have disc/calipers in the front and pads/drums in the rear, thus the mention of "he manually adjusted the left rear brakes". Disc brakes cannot be manually adjusted.

Also, with the automatic adjuster mechanism not functional, the rear pads will wear to a point that the full extension of the driving piston will not produce braking. Oh, and yes the retraction spring of the rear pads is quite strong enough to pull the piston and brake pad back into position. Usually there is not much fluid loss at first, so it would go unnoticed, and this situation would mimic the retracted front caliper piston, but endure until adjusted, whereas the front caliper would be self-curing (as mentioned previously).

I would suggest getting a rear brake repair kit that supplies new springs etc, and ensuring that it functions as designed. The original problem still exists, and you will need to manually re-adjust the left rear until corrected.

Regards, CJM

I also got a lot from these posts, may I just add a recomendation?...Upgrade to High temperature DOT 4 brake fluid. I use a brand that I get for my motorcycle and my SSR 6liter engine.