Stained Concrete Gone Awry

Aloha Auina La Ha-Waiian,

I would have to agree fully with your assessment.

And may I add "WELCOME TO THE ASYLUM".

Good Point about the order of the operation Ha-Waiian.

It is weird sometimes what goes on with concrete considering that the Romans invented it.

In my work in construction I was shocked at many of the concrete floor finished appearances.

In the dye added radiant floor pours and finishing I saw much streaking and splashing from the finishing occurred, and was accepted, whereas if I was paying for this in my house I'd expect a uniform color.

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome!

Not often does one get a GA with one's first post.

I disagree with adding a top coat to a slab on grade. You will end up trapping moisture and causing the same problem.

Getting worse?

What are the soil conditions and where are you?

Was a vapor barrier applied before the floor was poured? How long has it cured?

Is it below grade? How far?

Do you have footing drains to daylight?

Have you mold or condensation anywhere?

If you have hydraulic pressure you need to put in a sump.

Epoxy paint would have been a better choice if any of the above are a problem.

Ok, From what I gather here is that you wanted your concrete drive way stained, fine but you mentioned he applied a urethane sealer before he applied the stain, not a good idea. Concrete is a porous material and will absorb moisture from on top on bottom, any where there is moisture in contact with it. Just humidity alone will have an impact on moisture absorption as well as condensation due to temperature variations.

I believe what you should have done was to just stain the concrete and leave it in a naturally state so that the moisture could move (in and out)within the slab naturally.

Brian

No I did not want my driveway stained, I used that as an example of stained concrete that is exposed to water and the elements and moisture, humidity etc... that makes sense though about the breathing and being porous and the fact that he sealed it... i will be in court I believe. Even if I give him the chance to rectify the situation by redoing another poor job... I think he has mis represented his work and the longevity is not known, although he stated he has been doing this for years. I wanted a stained floor what I got was a sealed floor that was painted. How do I "prove" to him he did a bad job. I have gotten another contractors opinion but then I just get them in a pissing match... any advice?

How do I "prove" to him he did a bad job/?

Don't go there, let the court proceed the ramifications may lead him to that conclusion but maintain perspective, then walk your way.

First of all you can't "seal" concrete, it needs to "breath" if you seal the concrete it can't breath and expel moisture so something has to give, either the sealant or the concrete.

A good example is painting concrete lawn ornaments with oil based paints. It seals the moisture in and the concrete will crumble within a short period of time. A latex based paint must be used. Go talk to a pro from Home Depot and they will tell you the same thing. In my oppinion this guy didn't know what he was doing. Why would you stain concrete?

Re: it needs to "breath" ...

c'mon ... take a deep breath. That's it; breathe deeply. Relax, now.

As for: "Go talk to a pro from Home Depot..." Yeah, I did that. Twice, in fact.

First time, the Home Depot "Pro" sold me a (plastic) bath-surround kit, the gallon cans of adhesive needed to perform the install, and the 'correct trowels'.

The morning following the installation, I was horrified to see the surround all 'wrinkly' and nasty looking.

Sure 'nuff, upon reading the fine print on the label, it stated that it was NOT to be used on the type of plastic from which the surround was made.

Go argue with them 'til you're blue in the face; THEY are not responsible! (meaning: they are irresponsible). Their argument was that they only offer advice, to be taken "For-what-it's-worth"... and *I* should have read the label thoroughly FIRST, and brought the glue back BEFORE using it [they wouldn't even refund the price of the glue].

Three years later, I gave the store another shot (having been similarly snookered by their competition during that interim period).

Ah well... knowing that Corporate lawyers would have this post deleted in a heartbeat if I told the second story, I'll leave it to the Collective's imaginations...

Suffice-to-say: Never trust a "Pro" who works for $10-$12 an hour...! Prepare to do a terms-worth of reading/studying and practice-rehersal on scrap materials before attempting anything yourself.

And best wishes to all here, in your future endeavors.

A "pro from Home Depot"? What a contradiction. You would be as well off asking your counter server at McDonalds. If you want to get factual information, google Gran-Quartz, as they provide machinery, tools, and products for concrete floor cleaning, polishing, staining, sealing, etc.

Concrete can be effectively sealed with a silicone-based product such as any of the ones manufactured by Sika and Sonneborn. These products penetrate the near-surface portion of the concrete and do not create a membrane, they create a moisture repellant zone in the porous concrete structure.

There are a number of factors that could be causing what you are observing, probably the most likely are attributable to the inept and incorrect activities and procedures of your contractor.

If the polyurethane finish is debonding (peeling, blistering) one or more of several things is happening.

1) Concrete was not adequately cured before sealing, it DOES have an effective moisture barrier between it and ground --results in moisture weeping out through top surface--top coat of urethane WILL NOT WORK

2) Concrete WAS adequately cured, surface properly prepared (acid etched, rinsed, thoroughly dried) but subsurface moisture from the SOIL is precolating up through the slab--inadequate moisture barrier under the slab. Only solution other than redoing the concrete slab right--is to reduce/control moisture at the edge of the slab and all the way down to an inpermeable clay layer or 'deep enough'. Involves installing ' water barrier', usually a clay slurry wall in a trench outside the house, like when 'dewatering' a construction site where subsurface excavation is going to be done.

3) Combination of 1 & 2

4) Concrete surface was not properly etched and rinsed, then dried before sealing, moisture trapped in top layers of concrete.

The entire 'peeling' issue is why most professionals recomend a WAXED finish coat to protect the stain layer from wear. THe stain MUST be in the concrete, not just a top coating.

If you have a slab on grade and there is not a plastic liner located beneath the slab, or if the concrete is still fairly new, or the contractor did not fully dry the acid wash, then the polyurethane is going to blister. Concrete is not air, water, or water vapor tight. It allows the restricted flow of these elements. By sealing the top and trapping moisture in the concrete, the polyurethane will blister. Yes, a water problem could contribute to this blistering. But don't put a pump in. Just the moisture in the earth beneath the slab could cause blistering if there is not a plastic lining beneath the concrete slab.

My opinion is the Contractor botched this one.