What Are The Most Important Subjects in Energy Reasearch?

Hi Garthh

It would be hard for any member of CR4 to give an informed opinion of the PDF (Most just won't have an idea about the broader picture)

About the PDF - Can one put the trust into someone just because they had a success 30+ years ago?

In SA (and I am sure in America as well) the DOE must compile a draft strategy and open it up for comments by public.

If someone did not use the opportunity to comment it implies that they agree.

All comments received, amended draft etc should only then be given to the legislator to finalize law.

What is found in SA is that only 5 to 15 persons out of 40 m respond, which suggest that almost any outcome can be considered a democratic solution.

I have made it my hobby to comment (it is realy hard work because you have to look at all relative facts) but found that the democratic system do work (even if you just change one word).

The system works for government because in this manner they get free expert advice.

Hi Hendrik

I hope to see some comment on the technical issues.

Politically it is what it is

The process is set up to be inaccessible, the entrenched interests will end up with the bulk of the funding.

I remember following some links you posted a couple of years ago about SA's political process. I of course lost them when I restored my computer. I use google bookmarks these days, which follow my account not my computer...

So forget what I said about political discussion. The political process is just that a "Process", who better than engineers & technical people to comment? I've tryed before & ended up with several strict constructionists [constitution] hoping for the clock to roll back or armed insurrection I couple of years ago I was positioning to join a renewable energy mailing list, the greener than thou administrators repeatedly rejected me, because I dared to consider economic issues & [gasp] consider the need for profit a requirement.

Positive incremental change is what I would consider politically & technically possible

Hi Garthh

I missed the links at the bottom but even with that I don't think I am qualified to comment. A first word problem is different from that of a third world.

Over here a hub like that will develop into a bottomless pit. The final report will in any case just end up in an archive as a expensive , ineffective dust collector.

Politicians (now thats another story) I have at least contributed to the disposing of some.

Best of luck with your quest.

I better go now I have two drafts to comment on before Monday.

Oh (yes) the gov website is down and I cannot download the necessary law to comment.

I have earned myself a night off.

As far as the PDF is concerned it does reflect some assumptions in its order of areas of the technology to be advanced. Nuclear Power is first focus.

Every time I've really focused on the issue of Energy in the Grand, or Broadest context, I end up feeling it really is The Grid that ought to be the first focus.

All sources of energy are valuable to us, and civilization itself depends on energy to waste.

It is important to achieve energy independence and it is The Grid, the distribution infrastructure that is absolutely vital if that is to be accomplished.

There are a number of functional ways to Feed the Grid, all of which are "important" subjects.

However in my judgement the single most important thing to be done by the US to enable a resurgent economic position, as well as be able to defend itself, is to build and rebuild the most robust, universal, Grid in the world.

I go radical on this when I carry it across all of our energy needs, factoring in Transportation.

The electric trolley systems that John Loz has profiled here on the Forum are of great interest to me, along with every electric road system from Slotcars, to Subways and the Long Island Railroad.

How could you power every Truck or Car with an Electric Motor non stop from Wilmington NC, to Barstow California on Interstate 40?

There are Mountain ranges to cross, and along the way in some times of the year, some really dangerous weather.

Further my radical desire to create an Electric Road does have the prospect of Dual Use, and Killing Two Birds with one stone, is a typical thought pattern for me.

If a thing serves two purposes well, it is better than a thing that only serves one.

In your crafty Political Discussion where you asked if we could create a better government, we did hopefully come to some consensus that Technocrats were superior to Bureaucrats.

(It will come to haunt me when my anarchy has to hire some Bureaucrats if this be attributed to me. I'll let it stand. Let us say that a Bureaucrat may be promoted to Technocratic status as a "Leadership Position".)

These "Hubs" are likely to be insular, secretive, and competitive.

If I was President, or had any power I myself would be focused on the Grid first, and then letting the suppliers worry about how to feed it.

Of course Enron types of corruptions and major powers have and will have pricing pay influence that could well continue to hobble real sensible solutions to our dangerous situation.

So then we may well be forced to consider the laws and politics as just as important a science for "research" as any wonderful engineering or technical feats.

"is to build and rebuild the most robust, universal, Grid in the world."

Seems to me one of the major issues with building such a grid is the efficiency of power transmission. That is why I believe that a major well-funded program to develop high temperature superconductors would be a big step in the correct direction.

Distributed generation, would complement Hi-temp super conductors.

Well, it is mostly fine, save from this part about producing fuels from sunlight, as fuels would be burned in the end, which would maybe make US independent of Oil, but would not help in case of Global Warming problem.

If naturall photosynthesis would be mimicked, then why not go for production of something edible, either by animals or humans? That would also remove CO2 from air, without need of finding way to capture and store it, which is totaly absurd idea by the way. It is allready known that Carbon fibers can strenghten lot of materials, so why not use captured CO2 to produce usable and useful thing instead treating it as waste material?

Another thing that is wrong here generally is that it would obviously be confined to US teritory, and problems are Global in nature, so why not include scientists and inventors from whole World?

I was working 8 years in Institute for Atomic, Physical, Chemical and Biological Research >>Rudjer Boskovic<< in Zagreb, Republic of Croatia.

Just in area of atomic research they have 60 years of experience, and they hold patents in area of materials for radiation protection and waste material depositing that could be simply bought and used. There are futuristic technologies allready invented collecting dust because 20 or 30 years before nobody was interested in them.

I would propose that World scale database of patents would be formed, to avoid reinventing things that allready has taken money and resources to be invented.

Idea of simulation research is what I mentioned severall times, because present level of development is pateticaly inadequate because it separate tests from one another instead of testing all together how it would be in real life usage of some device. The way it is now, any synergic effect, emergent characteristic of system or process and interactions between optic, thermal effects, and fliud flow and interaction with solid bodies are left out, and this is IMHO soul of any invention or innovation. Unfortunately even standard for solid body description is not yet existing, and since all proceses of testing are mostly approximations, each is based on its own theory that require different description of problem to test. Mostly used is >>brutta forca<< method for calculations of some phenomena and of course still long time there would be no computers strong enough to do it this way. I have pretty good ideas how to build such simulation system, and it would enable any person with an idea to test it fast and cheap. Simulation system should help inventor, not ask one to input all relevant formulas first. That way something observed in Nature canot be modelled if this is something yet unexplained, so surely there are no formulas existing for it.....

I would give example of my solution to problem of >>Traveling Salesman<<, which I solved in 80's when everyone claimed that 1000 city solutions would need 100 years of computing by strongest computers of that time. Still this problem is considered to be NP hard and only some >>greedy algorythms<< are developed that produce nearly optimal results in not so long time. Problem was in >>brutta forca<< method employed without moment spent in analyse of problem. When I discovered this problem, I analysed premises and required result. Contrary to thesis that there are n solutions for n cities, I concluded that there is only ONE shortest path connecting all cities, and other routes are depending only on starting/ending city of tour. Then I considered how this path would look like if cities are situated on uniform distances from one another, just like coordinates in coordinate system. Starting from small number of cities and increasing their number, I observed form of path that connected cities, and it started looking like fractal known as >>Sierpinsky curve<<. I used algorythm for drawing this fractal to assign ordering numbers to coordinate points, and then it was simple to connect cities fast using their coordinates to assign to each >>visiting order number<< and all that was left then was to sort cities on that number, and shortest route was guaranteed. My old ATARI PC was calculating 1000 cities route in less than 20 minutes! In that time was included complete process of ordering indexes forming for given coordinate system, and execution was in interpreted BASIC program, while compiled version took under 5 minutes to finish.

Same way I have idea for excelent virtuall prototype testing and simulation program that would not need swarms or stables of computers and years of computing time to finish.

Same way I invented new kind of Wind turbine that would be 95% efficient at least, for which statement I was allready scolded here on CR4, but I dont mind since I would patent it soon, and then I would be able to demonstrate that I am telling the truth, as allways.

Same way I invented financing system that recycles money and multiply it, for which I was called fraudster or SCAMMER, but this also dont mater as my system would be implemented soon in one Retirement/Pension Fund, which would start paying interest of 20% on money deposited at once instead after retirement of person as usuall. Since deposited money would be also multiplying at rate of 350 times in 10 years, if each 10 years all multiplied money is converted to initiall deposit, then 20% received per year would be also 350 times greater...... It is possible to do this each 36 months, so then guaranteed payment would grow at rate of at least 300%, and total multiplication factor would be smaller than in other case, but anyone would be able to retire as soon as guaranteed payment become adequate for normal life, with guaranteed increase in future also. Moreover, Fund Member can at any time after initiall 36 months take out initial deposit and all accumulated money till that moment, and system would keep paying out guaranteed 20% at level it was paying till moment of withdrawal, and money would continue to multiply, but not so fast as if money was not withdrawn, of course. Therefore, nobody would need to be scared of losing JOB as Fund would pay all the time. Also, any employer could prematurely retire old workers by seting membership for them in such fund and pay just 5 yearly pays as deposit, as 20% from that would enable them to receive amount equall to their yearly pay with same employer. This way young educated people can get employed, and perhaps 5 years period when retired workers would coach new employee to work in same JOB, transfering accumulated knowledge and experience to sucessor. In case of technology changes, that would be not necesary. It could be set also that way that person who would be retired receive double pay each year, one in hand and one in Fund. Retired worker/employee could be paid >>Advisor<< to new worker/employee for at most 3 years when his 20% would tripple (if three years consolidation period is used), and then that person can start enyoing life in retirement...

Seting up such Funds is what I would reccommend as one of goals in described plan, even if they would like to study it first :-))

That would shortly solve unemployment problems in any country using such Funds, and that would surely make better situation in population and improve quality of life.

Only problem is that unemployment is lever that is used to keep employees salary down, as with several unemployed people per any JOB, employer can fire worker asking for raise in pay and hire someone who would be happy to have job at all....

Also, Banks would be forced to offer same benefits to their clients, so people would have more money everywhere.

Now, is it not time that great country like US start thinking about the rest of the World, and consider great mass of talents, knowledge and inventions that could be used to advantage of whole World?

How long it would be necesary that talents leave their country (that same which invested money in their education, and which rightfuly expect that they would remain usefull members of its society) and come to live in US to be able to find support and realize their full potential? Why not give grants to anyone and have priority right in use of work done? It would only take commision od scientists, ecconomists and other experts so all fields would be covered, which would receive and discuss Grant applications, and if applicant can prove idea to be sound and they conclude it is viable and would be usefull, then money should be granted. It would take less than 100 bilions, compared to 700 recently thrown in bottomless holes of rotten companies that then out of gratitude pay big bonuses to their management who bring them in such situation in first place.......

So, that is my two bits as American use to say (if I am not wrong, being form other side of the World)........

Sorry for spelling mistakes as CR4 spelling checker has fell into endless loop and then I got message that there are >>No data received from Server<< :-((

The goals detailed in the .pdf suggest that the concept is political in origin, rather than based on any pratical potential public good. I suspect these will wind up as black holes for tax dollars. The significant difference between these proposed "hubs" and Bell Labs (or any number of other such organizations) is that Bell Labs (or Edison's Menlo Park, or the Skunk Works or any number of others) were ultimately motivated by the profit motive, but provided with a longer-term horizon than is currently acceptable.

An intriguing fact about innovation is that most significant paradigm-shifting developments in history have actually been "invented" independently by a number of claimants- sometimes separated by many years. Consider just the claims for "first flight", for example, or the telephone, or the extended patent battles over the laser. The laser is a good example of technology that was available long before we had real applications for it...

One of my favorite stories is the development of Sticky Notes at 3M- as I have heard it, Sticky Notes actually evolved from a failed development of an adhesive. Although the adhesive failed miserably based on the original design goals, someone within the chain of command had the bright idea that here was the perfect replacement for refrigerator magnets. You will never, ever get that sort of thinking in a bureaucratic environment. The will never be anyone in the chain of command within these hubs that can say, "Hey, this new configuration s..ks as a storage battery, but what a fine distillary for exotic variations on scotch" (of bourbon, should your tastes run in that direction). Bureaucrats that think outside the box can not survive in the bureaucratic environment- groupthink is a requirement of that particular breed...

Nice to see you Cwarner.

Frankly at first reading of both the news report, and then the PDF, I felt the pdf was badly written as if the writer or writers were seeking to make simple concepts confusing.

In the case of the "hubs", there was something equally missing, at least in the bit of journalism, for I wanted to know exactly "where" in a real world these "hubs" were going to be.

One of my philosophical tenets is to never believe in anything too much.

To the Government I do subscribe to the belief that there are some responsibilities for which it is the duty of the Government to at least do the best it can whenever Private Enterprise fails.

Though there was much talk of "Change" prior to the Administration change of our recent US election, I am really saddened that when it comes to Energy, the focus there seems diffuse, as if swayed by any new TV commercial, and a search really for what amounts to The Holy Grail, something fantastic meant to marvel us all, and fix everything all at once.

It is no wonder that Nuclear Power heads the pdf list, since for the US that was the original "Silver Bullet".

Apparently The Grid, is simply too mundane.

STOP, Part 2: Though your thesis concerning the ultimate motives of private enterprise as superior to government research and development institutions is sadly often too true, your mention of the Skunk Works to a degree undercuts your argument. It may also show a successful institutional way for the Government and inventors to collaborate. The Tennessee Valley Authority is more of a hybrid than commonly understood, and overall it has provided a long running strength to the nation.

To get to a simple relationship between Government and Private Industry weapons may well represent an ideal. Private industry knows for a fact governments will buy their products, and this drives their incentive to make superior weapons.

The adoption of the Beretta as the US Army standard side arm to replace the 1911 .45 illustrates something.

Frankly I'm to the point where I advocate the Federal Government of the US buy all of the US Electrical Grid, and as an Institutional Ideal Mission have it known that it is simply too important to be left to the short term interests of Private Interests.

In a complication of the Human experience, somethings are true, and then again only true if you believe in them. At a real point you cannot make a system work, unless you believe in making it work.

For an Institution to really work it must have a simple mission, and an understandable Ideal.

The US Postal Service is of note as far as a "successful" government institution, though it is too bad it does not offer an email service, at least for there it has lost a competitive edge.