How Do I Level the Field?

• Can the person do the job?
• Will the person do the job?
• Will the person fit the organisation?

That is all the interviewer is trying to establish.

Also, what are the downsides? Initial employment costs? Entry level vs. "25 years of experience" that he/she may expect to be paid for. medical/health insurance? Single vs. a family? Life insurance? Worker's Comp? Relocation costs? and so on.

Does the interviewer knows this?

Yes to both...

Depends on the job.

Depends on the job... and company expectations.

What I've seen after all is that when it comes to more experienced people, in many occasions, companies and employees tend to firm a contract for part or full time service instead of hiring the guy for a fixed payment. This way, the company spends a higher payment for the more experienced one and is capable of shedding the load when project is concluded. Younger people is more prone to be hired for a lower salary for a little more constant work load.

But, of course, depending on the job, level of knowledge, and even if there's a risk a competitor could hire you to develop a similar service or product, this can change. Both in prices and time.

I think answer #4 is the best so far, as in my situation, as I am not interested in a long term commitment,(till retirement).

I guess what I am looking for are options favorable to me and the potential company, as I am entering into the next level of business.

Hi Redfairlane

This is one of those questions that I would have loved to ask (but didn't dare)! I'm in exactly the same situation, age and experience.

Sorry not to help you but, I will watch this space!

Good luck!

the 23yo if they have 10-15 years experiance.

Several things come to mind - your salary requirment, are they hiring a trainee, will the people over you fear your experience and for their jobs, would the person doing the hiring fear you taking their job, and how much abuse they think you will take over a trainee plus any high cost medical problems in your family; this is a big one if your needs for insurance would run up the cost . You would be wanting a family plan most likely, right ?

Your experience would put you at the top for a Inspectors job for the state of Federal Government. But you may need to get a degree. Go take some CLEP test.

I'd hire experience over schooling, but... the 23 y.o. can be groomed for long term career. So, if it's for a specific project, experience is a no-brainer; if it's for a long term position the younger one has more years to sell to the company.

Remember, you are approaching the OVER 30 club!

Either under 30 years old or over 30 years experience.

Start consulting and contracting and really enjoy the fruits of all of that labor now.

At 63, I now make much more money part time than I ever made working full time and taking all of the inflation into consideration also.

Why gee in 3 more years I can collect SS her in the US and I am still darn fit and will just keep on until I find it is not fun anymore.

You don't friend, A 23 yr old graduate is the better options because business and government simply know wisdom comes with life experience and with such comes cost. A graduate on the other hand, should be smart enough to find his / her way for less. Trade Vs Office of Fair Trading NSW, Ignorance is know excuse in the meaning of their law, as is their law no excuse to be arrogant in the meaning of trade.

You just have to hang on and fight on!

To all the posts that have answered to this thread, " If you were a paying passenger on an airline, would you be willing to fly in an aircraft that is piloted by a 23yr.old, or if you could, opt to fly in an aircraft piloted by a 53yr. old? I have witnessed 23 yr.old A&P mechanics want to let fly aircraft that I deemed unairworthy and put a stop to their actions, (1) I would not have let a family member fly on that aircraft, (2) as a QC Inspector it was my responsibility not to let something like that fly. And that is something you gain from experience, and not out of text books. I've also been in a situation where, an inexperienced air traffic controller let a heavy 747 over fly the airplane I was on, during our approach into San Francisco, causing our plane to flip inverted and 300ft above the bay (water). It was only because the pilot in command was 53yrs.+, that I'm here today to give my input to this thread.

The bottom line is, if they want Quantity hire the 23yr old, if they want Quality then they should hire a 52(+) yr old with experience.

My B.S. degree came from the school of Hard Knocks and Common Sense.

So to you, Redfairlane, if they don't hire you because of your age, they are not worth working for to begin with. And call it karma or what ever, they'll get what they paid for in the end.

The comment about large firms vs. small firms hiring practices is probably more truthful than not. As the owner of a smaller heavy construction company I would definitely value experience more than GPA. Get ready to sell your experience and related intuitiveness that will provide immediate benefits to the company you are applying with. And remember, you are 52 years young, not 52 years old. The average age of a construction worker these days is 54. ( pretty scary huh? )

I asked a recruiter the same question after I was laid off at the beginning of the year. I have an AAS with 10+ years of experience in manufacturing, but I wasn't getting any calls. He told me that large companies want to see that diploma, because it shows them a desire to achieve. If that's the case, then what about spending 10, 20, 30+ years in the same field??

I was eventually offered three jobs, all with small, privately owned companies, because of my hands-on work experience. I've worked for two large corporations, and I don't think I'll do it again.

how about being over qualified? Salary expectations, and finaly, When will the newbe start?

Something else to remember is that in most places now the modern CAD draftsmen is considered semi skill information systems technologists. So you need to see how you compare with companies projected needs, considering the rapid rise of GIS, 3D modeling and CIS in the industry. If you only know CAD, then I would expect they would hire the 23 year old who might take less money, work longer hours, manage the computer information systems in the office, and handle the GIS and modeling. Remeber most almost any engineer or other technically trained person with a BS can use CAD and skill do the technical work, the modern draftmen is a computer specialist that keps the systems running, knows GIS and understand modeling. Now this is not the situation in all businesses, some smaller businesses with older managers really need CAD, as the older maangement never learn and does not understand CAD. So one thing i would do is estimate how old much of the staff that has a need for draft is? as a rule I usually figure 45 to 50 year old right now for the break between understanding CAD themselves and needing someone to do it for them. In the case of an older staff you need the drafting experience to compliment CAD. Younger than that and most will be able to use CAD, understand it pretty well, and will need other more advanced skills with computer systems to compliment the CAD.

Before I started my own consulting company I worked for a large electrical company.

I found the straight A student often was not the best candidate. I preferred a B average with lots of outside interests and activities and a friendly personality. The straight A student often had little to offer than his A's.

I also hired older engineers, often from behind the iron curtain. They often proved to be real plow horses, and consistently turned out a consistent volume of work at a steady pace. Their degrees where not recognized in this country, and that was a shame. (The odd one you misjudged and had to let go.)

Bottom line is what can YOU offer? Tried and true, steady worker, consistent out put, reasonable financial expectations OR obsolete, cranky, and tired out, and wanting a gold mine? It depends so much on the candidate.

You can't level the field. Companies and the military don't want old people 'cause they know too much.

Actually it is frequently quite opposite. They dont want them because they know a lot but many times it is severely outdated to fit in well with the modern technologies available and computing capabilities. Being an expert with a slide rule is not really of much value in modern society. While being an expert with excel is just a typical minimum work place expectation for unskilled office labor. Additionally, the personnel the least willing to be flexible and learn new skills are the older labor forces. However, they do frequently have the refined interpersonal skills and years of experience with previous problems and failure from which to draw on, which the younger forces do not. Additionally frequently they are not as aggressive about promoting upwards and advancing their careers, and might be willing to work at a certain level until their upcoming retirements. However, this also means they sometimes may not be as aggressive about get things accomplished. A rapid growth oriented company breaking into new markets frequently want a more flexible adaptive staff knowledgeable in current technologies. On the other hand, these people present a risk to entrenched established companies that spend time and resources on training staff, as these people tend to present a higher risk of turn over in prusuit of career growth.

I was laid off at the age of 53. Lots of applications and no replies. A real ego crusher. Younger, new grads that I helped train stayed on during the down sizing.

Here is a gross generalization:

Large firms want to groom and mentor the younger cheaper labor.

Small firms just want to get the job done once and done right.

Were you getting close to a retirement?

Lay off the older so the retirement benefits don't cost so much?

The issue may be whether you'll ever get the opportunity to respond to some of the things other posters have mentioned.

If the HR people make prejudgements about you, you won't get to an interview. Without that you can't assuage concerns about you.

Isn't that the same as choosing a man over a woman because "She won't be here long term. She'll get pregnant and quit to have a family.", without asking *her*?

Although all too many hiring groups do this kind of foolish leaping-to-conclusion I have to agree with the person who said you wouldn't want to work there anyway.

That said, I'm personally so addicted to eating and paying my bills that I'd work at a place I didn't enjoy. And do the same fine work that I do everywhere.

Best luck on meeting an employer who takes time to interview you and is honest enough to address and discuss these things.

Lots of good advice

Here is another - 75% of jobs go unadvertised

Work your friends, do the research to know who needs people like you, approach them directly. Smaller is better for this effort.

Small firms are ignored by recruiters, can't afford to advertise, frequently cannot afford any sort of HR.

But scan the papers, the trade journals, the internet for news about the firms; find out who needs not just your skills.

And do this with a genuine interest - you will quickly find that Joe's shop may not actually need you, but he is actually friends with Pete (his competitor) and will make a call for you.

Tiny firms are actually flattered when people seek them out, tho maybe not as much as before.

And always consider becoming contract employed.

At your age it is best to level the field by restructuring yourself to have the 23yr olds under your wing for your own consortium development efforts. Applying through working resource channels at your level of mastery seems cheap and abusive! It's the drag of self employment that has probably got you into this comparative. Head hunters should be finding you if there is a good market so maybe that construction firm and a few others in your field are not doing very well at the moment. At this time in life you just need an expertise to sell as focus for accomplishing a specified goal; ask yourself, who needs you and your prodigious talents to accomplish the thing that makes them the most unrelated to you and your skills; because the construction firm will have a prejudice from knowing people just like you for far too long.

The best thing you can do to impress HR is show some flexibility, don't look stagnant. Show how you have advanced your knowledge base to stay ahead of the technical advancements curve over the last 15 year, not falling steadily behind like most people over 50 seem to have done. There was a huge transition between Baby boomers and Gen Y in the way we think about work, careers and long term prospects. Baby boomers tend to still hold on to the older ideal of one or two jobs for life and no real training needed, just work and work until retirement, and company loyalty is important. Gen Y lives under the idea of a career being separate from their jobs, as they will work somewhere near 10 to 20 jobs over their working lives and they aren't particularly loyal to any one company (after all it is just a job and not their careers). They learned to constantly learn new content as the technology advances so rapidly and you must stay current for the next job that comes along. Bring the best of both and show it to the HR. Be flexible to start working for less with the prospect of growth in your job. Be flexible about the scope of work you are willing to do. Adapt to the needs of the employer.