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motor single phasing or double phasing

11/20/2009 7:25 AM

what i can do to save a motor from burning or breaking down if a phase had been lost from a connection to motor ??????????

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Guru

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#1

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/20/2009 7:50 AM

I'm assuming you're referring to a three phase motor. Typically three phase motors employee Mag starters, basically a contractor that incorporates some sort of current protection. If a phases is lost the protection will open and require a Manual reset.

Now day's many magnetic starters are adjustable, and of course to be effective they must be set for the full load rating of motor. MAG starters also commonly employed what was referred to as a heater on this type of MAG that heaters must be sized to match the load rating of motor.

Sometimes OEM Equipment such as large air conditioners utilized three phase motors internally. In this case there's commonly no MAG starter to protect the motors from over current conditions caused by a phase a loss.

In this situation the OEM Motors employee internal thermal overload protection, I've run into situations with the contractors have replaced the OEM Motors with three phase motors without the internal overload protection, in the event of a single phrase condition the motor will quickly fail and potentially become a fire hazard.

Of the two types of protection the Manual reset required by the MAG starter is the best, the internal overload production will prevent the motor from catching fire, and will protect it from a temporary phase loss. In the event of a permanent fault there is a good chance that the motor will damaged by the time the situation is discovered.

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#2

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/20/2009 10:08 AM

Many VFDs have phase loss protection. If your system has a VFD you may look into replacing it with one that is capable of detecting a phase loss.

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#3

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/20/2009 10:53 AM

If you are referring to a low voltage (440V) motor, the most effective protection against single-phasing is to use a thermal O/L relay with SP protection. Less than $ 10. Mechanically operated thermobimetal device. Awesome accuracy at this price.

If it is an expensive motor of high HP or at medium voltage, electronic relays are available.

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#4

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/20/2009 11:06 AM

If one phase is lost the motor will stall. An overcurrent protection device installed in the drive circuit can then be used. It will trip on overcurrent during the stall condition.

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#5

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/20/2009 11:27 AM
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Guru
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#6

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/20/2009 1:51 PM

Hmmm... some potentially dangerous generalization here...

Bi-metal thermal overload relays are NOT a good way to protect a motor from single phasing. This has been grossly over sold by the IEC motor control manufacturers. It only works if the motor is almost fully loaded when the single phasing occurs, and only if it is already running. If the motor is not running when a phase is lost, it has no idea and will allow you to attempt to start. By the time it trips, damage may already happen.

It works via a system called a "differential trip bar" in the trip mechanism that relies upon equal force being applied by all 3 bi-metal strips. If one is "cold" because no current is flowing through it, the bar moves slightly against the other two bi-metal strips so they will trip QUICKER under a loaded condition. But if the motor is not fully loaded to where the other two bi-metal strips are bending in the first place, the overload will NOT trip at all! Unfortunately when you single phase a 3 phase motor, it creates a lot of what is called "negative sequence current" as a result of one of the phases being un-powered for portions of each cycle. Those negative sequence currents cause anti-torque pulsations in the rotor, so in essence the rotor begins to "fight itself" and heat up. Than means you often will get rotor damage even though the overall current going to the motor stator (as seen by the remaining 2 bi-metal strips) is still below the tripping threshold.

And by the way, this "differential trip bar" ONLY is found in IEC thermal overload relays. NEMA style OLRs do NOT have that feature at all, so they do NOTHING to protect against single phasing. The same is true for eutectic melting alloy OLRs.

As waross pointed out, the best way to do it is to use a Phase Monitor Relay. Of those, the best are ones sensing current, not voltage, because the voltage type can be fooled by regeneration off of a spinning motor, i.e. if the phase is lost while the motor is running, it may not detect it. Current based Phase Monitors look at the total current in each phase. It is not only fool proof, but they usually also provide phase current imbalance protection. Some solid state OLRs now have this kind of protection built-in, that's another good way to go.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/20/2009 9:01 PM

Well, perhaps yes, the bimetal relay with differential slider needs a minimum current (NOT necessarily mechanical load on the motor) to operate .. 33% in the case of a relay i had the privilege to work on. Very sensitive differential slider with mechanical amplification of differential movement. Happily, no-load currents of IEC motors turned out to be quite high, most often >40%, thank you very much. Maybe things are different in the USA. Relays here have therefore proved to protect motors against single phasing even at "no load". Of course, as i said before, if expense is no object, many sophiticated electronic relays are available.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/23/2009 5:34 AM

........and also motors draw much more current than no load current when single phasing (making the application for phase loss protection of the simple IEC thermal overload or motor starter / cb more likely to offer some protection).

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/23/2009 5:56 AM

Thanks

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: motor single phasing or double phasing

11/26/2009 5:58 AM

Two posts and both GA !

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