Previous in Forum: Autotuning in VFD   Next in Forum: AMP Panel Circuit Diagram
Close
Close
Close
16 comments
Anonymous Poster

Temperature Monitoring and Wire Drawing

12/01/2009 9:21 AM

Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

I have an application that requires Temperature Monitoring of wire through a "Drawing" operation. The wire is Aluminum clad Steel and is coated with powdered lubricant. The speed is up to 400 meters per minute and the minimum wire size is 2.02 mm. The temperature only needs to be "Read" about once an hour and will be taken at 20+ locations. The typical operating range is between 250 and 290 degrees Celsius. Currently the readings are being taken manually with a contact T/C. However, we will be automating this operation for safety concerns. The color and "Shine" of the wire is variable so optical sensing may not be the best choice. (This is our preferred choice, but cost and emissivity are the limiting concerns) The wire does not need constant sensing so momentary contact sensing may be our best option. Any suggestions???

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: City of Light
Posts: 3945
Good Answers: 182
#1

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/01/2009 10:00 AM

Infra-red sensors? radiation wave length is correlated to temperature and does not depend on colour or shine, at least within some limits.

The best would be to organize a test with a IR thermometer supplier.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22777
Good Answers: 411
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/01/2009 11:24 AM

how about thermal imaging?

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South Carolina, USA
Posts: 46
Good Answers: 2
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/01/2009 11:53 AM

Due to the changing appearance of the wire, (Light/Dark & Shiny/dull) Thermal imaging was discounted. Do you know any reason (Emissivity) to re-visit this process???

Best Regards,

Ron>

__________________
Knowledge Gained is in Direct Proportion to Equipment Ruined... or, K(+) = E(-)
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22777
Good Answers: 411
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/01/2009 1:00 PM

About 2 years ago I was looking into color imaging (quality control on a sorter for fruit)High speed and high Volume too.

and was surprise the extend of speed, quality and senitivity it had offered. I just put that out there.

p911

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South Carolina, USA
Posts: 46
Good Answers: 2
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/01/2009 1:24 PM

Thank you for the input!!!

My company (www.4TTC.net) routinely offers Thermography solutions to customers. You are right; some of the things possible with this technology are amazing. However, in the hands of someone not properly trained in the use of the equipment (Emissivity, set-up, etc.) many false readings are considered good. Add the fact that each location has different conditions and considerations, and the "Technician" will have to adjust (Calibrate) the equipment for every reading. In addition, this equipment is not cheap; budget is always our limiting factor...

Have a great day!!!

Best Regards,

Ron>

__________________
Knowledge Gained is in Direct Proportion to Equipment Ruined... or, K(+) = E(-)
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42296
Good Answers: 1663
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/02/2009 2:52 AM

There is a commercial section of CR4.

This forum doesn't usually engage in commercialism to the extent that you have. Your posts always include a sales pitch. I'm sure all your products and services are probably top notch, but we don't normally sell ourselves here.

Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South Carolina, USA
Posts: 46
Good Answers: 2
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/01/2009 11:48 AM

Sorry, I did not mention that IR was tried with mixed results...

In addition, Cost is a driving factor. I know this process is being done every day, I just need to find the best industry solution. Why re-invent the wheel...

Thanx for your input...

Ron>

__________________
Knowledge Gained is in Direct Proportion to Equipment Ruined... or, K(+) = E(-)
Reply
Commentator

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hutch City
Posts: 61
Good Answers: 1
#8
In reply to #3

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/02/2009 7:16 AM

Ron,

I'll be honest. You're hosed. I have tried for a couple of years to find a similar solution, for a similar application (galvanized wire temperature measurement, out of a multihole drawing die). There is nothing I could find to reliably and CONSISTENTLY measure temperature on a relatively fine wire (.250" and less) while running. Contact would be the best, but not at 400 m/min. You're also talking about cost as being a driving factor... The process is being done every day, using simulation software, then limited trials to confirm. The idea is to freeze the process so that nothing change. That is a better way and it can be done. Otherwise, you're wasting your time. Explain that to your boss who put you up to this.

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hutch City
Posts: 61
Good Answers: 1
#10
In reply to #8

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/02/2009 7:28 AM

Oh, its not your boss who put you up to this...You are actually selling temp measuring devices, but you don't know what you're doing and trying to get help from people you're suppose to educate... git!

Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South Carolina, USA
Posts: 46
Good Answers: 2
#11
In reply to #8

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/02/2009 8:13 AM

Thanx for the words of encouragement!!!

Have you ever heard about the Ircon "CHF" system? (This is a non-contact system for temperature sensing for wire drawing that I have found in my search.) I was just curious if you looked into this system and perhaps had some feedback on it's use…

Perhaps some else has used this system and can offer some additional assistance…

Thanx again for your reply… ;-)

Please Note: I am not selling temperature measurement systems! One person took a (Unintentional) post of mine and distorted it into my "Commercialization" of this site!

Best Regards,

Ron>

__________________
Knowledge Gained is in Direct Proportion to Equipment Ruined... or, K(+) = E(-)
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42296
Good Answers: 1663
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/02/2009 8:32 AM


Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: South Carolina, USA Posts: 13

#

7
In reply to #3
Find in discussion
Re: (Urea)Ship loaders and rail track for Jetty 11/13/2008 7:26 AM

Nilesh,

My company, "The Technology Consortium, Ltd.", offers a unique solution for ship loading.

This equipment consists of a mobile (Wheels) Belt Conveyor for positioning the discharge at the ship loading point. Additionally this conveyor is a "Sandwich belt" design which means it uses 2 flat belts to contain and protect the product during transfer. This is important for fine particles (Wind loss) and product protection (Rain) during the loading operation. We currently have units installed in shipping ports in Australia.

Please visit my website at www.4TTC.net and review the pictures and details of this equipment under the "Material Handling" section. All of my contact information is also located there. Feel free to contact me directly to get additional details...

Best Regards,

Ron>

There are others Ron. You seem knowledgeable and willing to help others, but don't deny that you have used this (non-commercial)site for commercials.

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22777
Good Answers: 411
#15
In reply to #12

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/02/2009 12:07 PM

Hey you and Who Wants 2 Know??? in together stop advertisig for him.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42296
Good Answers: 1663
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/02/2009 12:45 PM

OOPS! Caught in the act.

I should have just included the crass commercial parts and left out the rest.

Cheers.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster
#13
In reply to #11

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/02/2009 9:21 AM

Ircon is nice and reliable, but the CHF system I think only goes up to about 275 deg C (530 F). Plus, you said cost is a very important factor. Ircon is anything but cheap.

Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South Carolina, USA
Posts: 46
Good Answers: 2
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Temperature Sensing of Moving (Drawing) Wire...

12/02/2009 9:28 AM

Thank you to everyone who helped me get a handle on this project!!!

Have a great day!!!

Ron>

__________________
Knowledge Gained is in Direct Proportion to Equipment Ruined... or, K(+) = E(-)
Reply
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South Carolina, USA
Posts: 46
Good Answers: 2
#9

Re: Temperature Monitoring and Wire Drawing

12/02/2009 7:19 AM

I am Sorry if this sounds like a commercial; IT IS NOT!!!

When I went to edit one of my posts, I must have inadvertently copied my "Clipboard"...

As you can see, these replies were intended for private E-mails...

Thanx again for your help...

Ron>

__________________
Knowledge Gained is in Direct Proportion to Equipment Ruined... or, K(+) = E(-)
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 16 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); lyn (3); nick name (1); phoenix911 (3); titi-the-rabbit (2); Who Wants 2 Know??? (6)

Previous in Forum: Autotuning in VFD   Next in Forum: AMP Panel Circuit Diagram

Advertisement