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Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/19/2009 6:35 PM

Hello Guys,

I am having a slight problem, hoping I can get some information on what is going on and maybe some solutions if possible.

I have a hot tub outside, I build an enclosure for it about 20' x 20' the roof is made of metal. The problem is everytime i use the hot tub the room gets very steamy and rains inside the enclosure. How do I go about to solve this problem? I was thinking about venting the enclosure to get rid off the steam, or adding a heater, dehumidifier and a large exhaust fan.

Can some one explain what is happening, I guess I should of paid more attention in science class lol. Has anyone ever had this problem before and fixed it using a cheap simple method?

Samantha

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#1

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/19/2009 6:42 PM

Ideally the enclosure should be insulated, with a moisture-proof vapor barrier on the inside (warm side) of the insulation. Your 20 x 20 enclosure would probably still have plenty of room for applying insulation on the inside, without encroaching too badly into the space.

Otherwise, an adequate fan might make it uncomfortably windy in there.

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#2

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/19/2009 6:46 PM

Take the roof off. Live a little!

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#3

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/19/2009 8:44 PM

I would consider a ridge vent. It would not be too difficult to install. It would let out the hot steamy vapors. Like in the other post, insulate and install a vapor barrier up to the vent. You will have to have a place where fresh air can come in, make that in a place that will be comfortable. Don't put a draft where it is not wanted. On the other hand, you may want fresh air conveniently placed.

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#4

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/20/2009 11:34 PM

Hi Samantha77,

This is that really old problem called "condensation".

The hot steam is condensing on anything colder than it.

And it sounds from what you say you have not insulated the roof?

I am guessing but I bet the roof is a steel girder and angle structure with either flat steel sheets or wood on that? And you may not have a ceiling?

And the "rain" is coming from the steel angle? Yes, not all science is boring! Some can save your life!

In a place like a steam or hot or heated bath, you should have ventilation with perhaps windows along all the outside walls, or have a ceiling erected just below the angle iron roof struts, and have it lower at the sides and higher in the centre.

If I was going to have a hot pool I would have roof vents and perhaps instead of windows, have a 300 mm or so, outside blind directly below the ceiling level. This 'blind' or some kind of area running the whole of the outside walls, should be opened when you are using the pool and closed if you are not. What I have in mind, is a simple wooden cover which when closed, closes onto a metal wire grid, small enough to keep animals out, but it will let the steam and hot air out which is causing the condensation.

I would also suggest a floating pool cover which will help prevent most of the heat evaporating as steam. This alone will help tremendously.

You should put something above your head and of course above the heated pool in such a way as to stop any condensation dripping off lights, rails etc. Electricity and water, as you may know are not the best of friends! So you should also have the ceiling well insulated and have the correct type of switched and light fitting for a watery environment. Ideally insulated lights fitted to the walls rather than the ceiling will prevent any more "rain".

Take a look at some of these sites for floating insulated pool covers. They will keep the heat in and most of the water.

hot pool floating insulated water covers

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I know my suggestions will work, it all depends on how the walls are constructed. It may be easier to install 'fanlight' windows which open just a few inches or centimetres to allow the hot air out.

Good luck.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 7:50 AM

I'll give you a GA for being both correct and putting a lot of effort into it...

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 3:58 PM

Hi ca1ic0cat,

Hope I got your name correct! I do not think we have corresponded before and I had to study it before I typed it, being half blind hardly help!

Why Sir you are a Gent. My profuse thanks!

There was more 'effort' than there looks as well. I typed it all out and my hand slipped and I lost the lot just as I was about to save it prior to sending! So I had to write it again and do more research as that page also disappeared.

Woh is me, he says holding his hand to his temple............................!

Have a happy holiday and thank you once again.

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#20
In reply to #4

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/22/2009 8:49 PM

Hello Babybear,

Thank you for your information that was most helpful, I am actually goint to implement those changes over the holiday break.

Samantha

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/22/2009 11:45 PM

Hello Samantha77,

I really appreciate your reply post and the thank you! And thank you to you!

This would have been a pretty straight forward build, assuming the design took account of the large amount of condensation. None of the build seems to have taken account of this huge condensation situation. Rectifying it afterwards is not so easy and care has to be taken that the roof and the supporting walls and floor are all sound and stay safe.............. Having said that, it also is not 'rocket science' and is something that should have been anticipated?

Anyway, I hope you can indeed put some suggestions into this hot tub room to make it more comfortable? I wish you luck, and would just add, that it is not something to be rushed. Think about where the water is going to flow and how and if possible why, (that horrible science thing again!) and you will end up with a really nice good looking, and well decorated hot tub room. I/we are always here!

Take care.

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#5

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 2:13 AM

Hi Samantha,

It is the reaction of Heat and Cold meet together = condensation. Hot tub when you put indoor will encounter condensation problems and the solution could be the proper air ventilation or exhaust fan. since your hot tub was located outside, the best solution is leave the roof without walling, then this will help to get rid off condensation problems. If your concerns is privacy that you don't wants your neighbor enjoying watching you while using the hot tub, then why don't build a wooden trellis instead of solid walls put plants in the pot around as touch up design, but I would also suggest when you build your trellis wall allow certain opening and not all the way up to the roof to serve as top vent, for sure you will solve your problem in condensation without additional operation cost on energy (exhaust fan, dehumidifier or heater as you mentioned).

Trust me, as we have outdoor hot tub with zero condensation problems.

Kind regards,

Roman

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#7

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 10:28 AM

Samantha,

A vent may help resolve by eliminating the steam. Also the condensation is due to difference of temperature inside and outside the metal roof. It's colder outside than inside, thus when steam touches the colder metal it condensates and the water drips like rain. Another way is applying an insulation inside the metal roof. Some of those foam boards to prevent the steam condensating into water. Hope this helps.

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#8

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 10:30 AM

You could simply stretch some plastic* sheet under the metal roof, angled so that moisture can run along the bottom surface of the sheet to places where you don't care about drips. Then smear the bottom of the plastic sheet with a small amount of detergent to help the moisture run along the sheet - the cheapest washing-up liquid that doesn't contain any moisturiser should be best. The air-gap between the plastic and the roof will reduce the condensation anyway, but you may still need to experiment with the angle to ensure that the water runs along the surface, and also replenish the detergent from time to time (a ridged umbrella shape with strategically-placed gutters is another possibility.

babybear's suggestion of a pool cover is good for when you are not using the bath. A thin layer of body-oil or a so-called "chemical cover" will also reduce evaporation - but be careful to choose a material that doesn't irritate your eyes.

Personally, however, I prefer to use a layer of 1" diameter floating insulating balls, as these can stay in place when you are using the spa, and are nearly as good as blankets for when you aren't (you can of course use a cover as well if you wish). There will be an initial cost, but savings in water-heating costs can lead to a short recovery time if you shop wisely.
(Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether industrial products designed for the purpose will answer your needs on price; expanded polystyrene balls are sold for packaging, for craft use and for filling bean-bags, but they may prove too lightweight or fragile for the purpose - though a coating of emulsion paint would probably solve both issues if you have time on your hands)

*for safety: the sheeting must be thick enough so that it can't cling to your face if it falls on you.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 4:03 PM

Hi Guest,

Just a few words...............

Bearing in mind this will be a Hot Tub, and the water from your plastic will eventually find its way back to the tub..............

It is not really a good idea to smear washing up liquid or soap on the plastic, as this would in turn possibly make the floor slippery and, make the Hot Tub dirty.

Not a bad idea apart from that though.

Good luck and why not join?

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 7:04 PM

The assumption was that the 20'x20' enclosure was very much larger than the tub, so the detensioned water could drip onto absorbent soil where it would do no harm. Dilute grease-free detergents should be much less slippery than soaps.

If the floor's impermeable you'd need to provide drainage.

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#9

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 12:35 PM

Samantha77:

From your post it sounds like your issue is with the 'rain', but is it also with the steam? I'm going to try to give some explanations with common approximations without resorting to things like specific heat and other thermodynamic terms and equations not normally used in everyday conversation.

The fixes given are relatively cheap, but may have downsides as well. The steam and 'rain' are the same as when you may take a hot shower or bath with the condensation (steam or 'fog') on a mirror on the wall. If you take a hot enough and/or long enough shower the condensation will drip down the mirror. The same is effectively happening on the underside of the roof. The heated water is evaporating into the cooler air above the hot tub, like steam out of a shower, hot bath, or pot of boiling water... convection will cause the steam to rise and spread out while the cooler air around it falls... the warm steam will then coalesce (condense) on the surface of the metal roof which is cooler than the air... a thin film of water droplets will form as the water releases energy by adhering to the metal and heating it up slightly... like a foggy mirror during a hot shower, dew on the morning grass, or frost on your car windshield (where the water gave off enough energy to freeze).

There are various ways to address the steam and/or 'rain', most have which have been suggested here:

You can divert the 'rain'... such as placing a piece of plastic above at a sufficient angle for the water to runoff... the disadvantages could be reduced headroom and if the dripping from the roof was from a 'flat' spot and not a supporting frame member, the plastic may have to be placed at a steeper angle for the water to runoff before dripping. It's like making a large still (which you are already in, essentially)...

You can divert the steam... such as installing a fan or vents... this is essentially trying to move steam away or cool the steam down before it reaches the roof... like opening the door to the bathroom or turning on a vent fan during a hot bath or runing on the exhaust fan over the stove when boiling water and letting the steam out... if you've even been in a hot shower in the bathroom, you know what the disadvantages can be... the steam, along with the heat in the room, has been let out... so it gets cold... meaing that the hot tub won't feel as warm (if you're not submerged) because the air temperature will drop... this is good for removing the steam from the air, but it may also cause even more condensation if the 'drafting' actually cools the surfaces more, and may actually move more steam past cooler surfaces as it pulls the steam up and out. You could try a type of dehumidifier that pulls out the water from the air but leaves the air warm... but this could be expensive.

You can heat the roof... In theory this should work... One suggestion was simply insulating the roof, but I doubt that simply insulating the roof would work... especially at first. The steam would still condense on the roof (or insulation or ceiling) at first until it becomes approximately room temperature... Then the rate of condensation would be reduced, but not eliminated because the surface in contact with the steam would always be a little cooler... the reduction may or may not be sufficient to eliminate the 'rain'... if the rate is slower than the combined rate of evaporation back into the air and/or absorption into the material (which lasts until the surface is saturated) then it won't rain. If the roof was heated it'd be better... a bad approximation might be like turning on the defroster in your car... once the windshield is heated up from the inside, the water in the air outside is not likely to condense on the surface (unless it falls in the form of rain, sleet/hail, and/or snow...)... however, hot humid air on the inside of the car is still likely to condense on the inside of the windows until they are heated to room temperature or above. Another, better example may be like a heated mirror in the bathroom.

The fix all depends on what you're willing to spend and what side effects you can live with. Sometimes the best solution is a combination of fixes... like insulation and a vent. I don't know if I've given any better information or explained it better, but hopefully you've gotten something out of this.

I particularly like the idea of the styrofoam balls floating in the hot tub... effectively moving the 'ceiling' down to the level of the hot tub... it may feel a bit weird though... like an adult combination of the ball pit from a children's play area, the trash compactor scene from "Star Wars", and sitting in a giant cup of hot chocolate surrounded by nasty-tasting spherical marshmallows... To each his own.

I have some background in specifying and troubleshooting problems with industrial water cooling towers at my current job and another job from my past.

If you need further information or would like a more technical explanation, please let us know.

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#21
In reply to #9

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/22/2009 8:52 PM

Hello JCG,

Your reply was awsome, now I have an understanding of what is happening. Thank you for your reply and suggestions was most helpful.

Samantha.

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#13

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 10:14 PM

We had a similar problem at our fish hatchery in Canada.

Originally the roof was cedar shakes. It was replaced with steel roofing for fire safety and long life.

Then the inside rain started when winter came.

The room is approx 80 x 100ft and is unheated. We have long troughs of water with the fish in them. So floating balls etc was not a solution. The water is at a fairly constant 12deg C from a deep well (160 us gal/min). Ridge was continuosly vented, but obviously did not have sufficient air flow.

We installed a 1/4 hp ventillation fan and so far we have a dry roof this winter.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/21/2009 10:52 PM

Hi GW,

Sounds like the way to go!

No offence to the OP here but, I fail to see how condensation cannot be anticipated?

I guess being a builder help huh?

Good luck.

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/22/2009 6:17 AM

Steel roofing is sold as long life and fire safe. It is also sold as being environmentally friendly (even wikipedia)

All of this can be true - but only if the steel is suitably treated and insulated. Clearly, the insulation under your roof was not even as good as the cedar shakes. So I would be inclined to check everything - starting with changes in your fuel usage, continuing through the rust-proofing on the underside of the steel. Then, if you are in a region that is prone to forest fires, I would ask the area fire officer to check that the location is suitable for the supplied roofing.

Just my $0.02 worth.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/22/2009 1:27 PM

Galvalum standing ridge, treated both sides, + factory painted both side, 3 year installation warranty, 20 year manufacture warranty. Held down with clips so there are few through holes.

Installed on top of 1x4 strapping from the cedar roof, plus vapour barrier.

The steel roof is doing far better than the cedar ever did. Cedar in a temperate rain forest is a recipe for rot, mildew, and moss.

If I had it to do again I would probably add a couple inches of $tyrafoam.

The building is unheated, except for a small lunch room. Sole purpose is to provide security and a roof over our heads. (Water pipes that have little flow are heat traced). The 1/4 hp is not seen against 10hp of 24/7 water pumping.

We use a small Baby Bear wood stove for a "warm spot".

The fire safety issue was not due to a forest fire problem, but vandals.

The building is in a large urban park!

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#15

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/22/2009 6:09 AM

Simple extractor fan should work OK.

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#18

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/22/2009 4:40 PM

Listen to everyone else...

Or go mad scientist with it... you have basically built a big still... put it to work... install a collection system and recirculate that nice clean(ish) water to good purpose... water the lawn, refill the fish pond... refill the hot tub... use it for any non-potable uses... it shouldn't have many impurities beyond those it picked up off your ceiling and walls, but I'm not going to recommend you drink it even though you probably could.

Or you could go artistic with it... make a waterfall down one wall or a terraced 'stream' something along those lines... you just have to add enough slope and/or reduce the drag enough that the water wants to flow rather than form droplets, then you can guide it where you want it for aesthetic effect.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/22/2009 8:47 PM

Hello Hairlessssimian,

that is a very good idea I can put it to work but it might cut into my bath time, LOL.

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#22

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/22/2009 8:58 PM

Thank you all for the replies, I am going to implement those changes over the holidays and let's see what happens. Will post some pics of the modifications and I taught I would have nothing interesting to do over the Christmas break, lol.

Thanks everyone for your input, hope you all have a happy holiday,

Samantha

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/23/2009 5:25 AM

nothing interesting to do over the Christmas break, lol.

Have people started using lol as a written word in its own right; with some sort of definition that they have kind of guessed from it's normal context; without realising that its an acronym for Laughing Out Loud.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/23/2009 6:12 AM

"Loads of love" almost certainly predates computer usage.

From Wikipedia

"Other unrelated expansions include the now mostly historical "lots of luck" or "lots of love" used in letter-writing."

Also

"Let's order Linguini"

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#29
In reply to #24

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

04/12/2024 8:37 AM

There's always www.acronymfinder.com, of course.

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#26

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

01/21/2013 4:01 AM

Dear Mr. Samantha77,

In my view, employing an exhaust fan will be a simpler solution.

Alternatively, You can think of providing a canopy, if possible, over the tub and provide a vent, to out side the roof.

DHAYANANDHAN.S

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

01/21/2013 12:23 PM

Hello DHAYANANDHAN.S, It's Mrs Samantha, but thanks for the input. I have already solved the problem by insulating the roof plus using an exhaust fan, the enclosure was built a couple years back

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#28

Re: Hot Tub Enclosure Steam Problem

12/11/2014 12:40 AM

I think there should be a ventilation system in your room so that the excess steam passes from the room and thus it does not get steamy. An exhaust fan would also do, but if you still have any queries you can consult an expert for this.

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