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Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/27/2009 12:13 AM

We live along a dead end rural road with 5 other houses and a fish farm. The fish farm has a large generator to run pumps during a power failure. In an extended emergency could you disconnect from the main line and back feed power to the 5 houses from the fish farm generator? Would you simply run the generator output to the power lines and feed directly off the lines to the houses? Or would there be some way to back feed through the transformer at the fish farm and then run high voltage to the transformers at the houses? The generator runs 110, 220 and 440 including 3 phase to run several 30 hp line shaft turban pumps plus single phase equipment and light to buildings. The houses are on different legs of the 3 phase power lines coming in.

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#1

Re: Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/27/2009 12:30 AM

In theory, yes, but it takes considerable design effort and detail to attempt this. In particular, if the grid is down, some line worker is likely to be trying to fix it. If any consumer tries to backfeed the grid for the benefit of the neighbors, this will energize at least a portion of the grid and may electrocute someone. This can be avoided with a proper transfer/isolation switch, but it has to be located at the right point.

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#2

Re: Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/27/2009 2:08 PM

If you had permission and it was known by the local utility provider that you where able to do this they may let you do it. The utility company people would be the ones who would do the connections though when it was needed. As long as they do the hookup and unhook I think its legal. Around here the utility companies have lists of their customers who have large capacity generator systems just for that possibility.

Around here it is still common for a section of power line to go down and the local utility company will usually hookup and then back feed from a large generator at one of the farms in the affected area in order to keep others power going while a larger section of supply line is down for what ever reason.

They just have to isolate that area from the lines they are working on first.

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#3

Re: Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/27/2009 11:32 PM

There would be one other limitation. The transformers that feed your facility are sized to provide a certain amount of power for your feed. You could not exceed that amount in your back-feed. In fact, due the the fact you would be using the secondary as a primary, you would probably have to derate slightly to account for a slightly less efficient arrangement since transformers are optimized to operate in the intended configuration.

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#4

Re: Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/28/2009 5:55 AM

Another possible issue. Do these five houses have separate services? If so, you would be feeding them through their meters. Thus they would get charged by the poco for the power they use off the generator, even though it is not coming from the poco. Odds are though, you will not be allowed to do this anyway. The poco gets very pissy if you mess with anything on their side of the meter. I seriously doubt they will let you use their equipment. Too much liability for them. AFAIK the only way I can see you being able to do this, is if you ran a low voltage (120/240V) line to a listed transfer switch at every individual house's service.

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#5

Re: Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/28/2009 6:08 AM

I case of emergency, we simply disconnect the low tension fuses from transformer and send the power back through existing l.t line from generator provided with the agreement from the farm and local electricity authority.

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#6

Re: Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/29/2009 8:01 AM

Subject to legality, safety and commercial considerations imposed by the electrical utility supplier, then yes, it could be done in principle subject to a rigorous design assessment being done on the installation.

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#7

Re: Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/29/2009 2:06 PM

After taking all the other suggestions into concideration (You didnt list your location), but if you live in an area where it gets cold I'm sure you will want to use the Generator for Heating as well........average house will use a 20 KW furnace I'd say, plus all the other power requirements you would want, IE: water pumps , sewer Pumps, Fridges , lights etc. , x 6 houses , Id say you have nowhere near a big enough generator to do the job. You also didnt say how far the houses were apart so I'll assume to far to make a central point from the Generator and run heavy gauge Wire from there to each house. After taking in the cost of wire , dissconnect switches and the safety controls and boxes you would be required to install to feed back through the power lines, Id would suggest you go buy 6 portable generators for basic emergency use. The more power your gonna want to use , the more it will cost you for a bigger generator and the more fuel you will need to have on hand to run it. I also live in the country in central Canada where in gets cold,. I have an 8000 kw generator for emergency power. I also put shut-off valves and drains in my water supply lines just in case I would ever need them as cost was minimal. I set it up so one water line to a bathroom won't freeze And I will be able to drain ones that would. I doubt in these times you would be without power longer than a few days but we are set-up to be without power for a week. Of course we understand that there could be a 3 to 4 day storm then taking days or weeks to restore power to everyone but you have to draw a line somewhere as what to keep extra on hand. Anyway the point being is, the cost of preparing for a Emergency like this has to be concidered no matter what you do................C. Cobb.....Central Canada

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/29/2009 4:49 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. The houses are all withing 600 ft. of the Fish Farm Generator. I used to own the fish farm and we had a 350 KW unit. They have since replaced it but I imagine it is similar. The main line branches onto a dead end line down our access road about 900 ft from the generator. It is 3 phase power with a ground leg. The 3 hot wires look like they have a main disconnect at the branch point. WE have a few portable generators in the neighborhood. WE all have wells. Some are on gravity feed septic systems and some are pumped. We are in Washington state. I know we would have to open the breakers at the main line (with the permission of the power company) and bypass the double throw switch at the generator. We might have to keep our loads to a minimum to see how much capacity we have. I guess I wonder if it is more complicated than that. Some of the responses to my original questions suggest that a system like this would have to have additional engineering. My question is, could you just try it and watch the load as you bring on more demand.

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#9

Re: Reversing power transmission in an emrgency

12/31/2009 12:26 PM

Sounds to me like you are really wanting to try this without your Local power companies perrmission, other wise your first step would be approching them and seeing if you would even be allowed to use their equipment. IE: Wires, poles, meters and transformers. and that they would agree with such a setup. I will suspect that the answer will be no, but untill you find out that answer ( if you dont already know it )and getting permission from the power company in writing, you are wasting your time pursuing this avenue of supplying power to these homes legally. Without the Power Companies permissin and knowledge you could be putting a Power Co. workers life at risk and you are putting yourself and others at risk of huge fines or possilbly jail time. ........in my humble opinion...........C. Cobb

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