Wassup with lead solder anyhow?

RoHS is everywhere, but you can still buy tin/lead solder. I've used silver solder for stained glass projects, and I don't remember ever having a problem soldering it. You didn't mention if you were using a good flux. ?

No one is going to manufacture electronic products that can't be sold in the EU or Asia. That's just not good sense. For commercial grade components - resistors, caps, etc., you can almost not find anything that's not RoHS compliant anymore.

We (in aerospace) butt up against the RoHS issue everyday. Thankfully mil-specs still allow us to buy tin/lead tinned products.

That's interesting about the stained glass. I use 60% lead on mine; never tried silver. Do you have any trouble with the patina? Of course, when I solder stained glass, I usually use an old gutter soldering iron. That sucker will melt ceramics.

I only used silver for things that might be handheld - like a hand mirror or kaleidoscope. As best as I recall (20 years ago) there was no problem with patinas. it seems like the solder was only a very few percent silver, the rest tin. I've also used it for plumbing.

I would normally use 60/40 and then switch to a 63/37 blend to add decorative soldering, since the melting point was lower. (I might have that backwards.)

A really good soldering iron is your best friend.

Hi bahnkiii,

I think the so called silver solder for electronic work was tin/lead with about 2% silver. I seem to remember Tektronix recommending it for soldering the ceramic mounting points in there oscilloscopes to stop the specially plated grooves from lifting off the substrate. It is or was recommended to slow down steel loss on solder iron tips it did melt at a slightly lower temperature than standard lead solder which helped to re solder joints.

Luckily I still have a good supply of lead solder and some silver I have used the stuff for umpteen years and never worried about lead poisoning as far as I am aware it has done me no harm. Though I did not breathe fumes ifit could be avoided, It was the recomended method of terminating cables with solder lugs large and small in my apprentice days so have been exposed to this deadly metal for many years.

Well you've touched onto most if not all of the assembly problems of lead free solder. But as far as higher temperature soldering irons, there are many new irons with higher temperature available. Don't be surprised that it won't be available to fit your old handles.

IMHO the push in Europe for lead free electronics comes from a misplaced worry of lead solder leaching from discarded electronics placed into land fills. Mandating electronic recycling would have been a much better way to prevent this relatively small amount of lead from returning to the ground. Why do I think that this is a small amount of lead? Well there were a few small wars fought in Europe over the years and for many of the recent battles, lead projectiles were used with great abandon.

One problem that has yet to be solved with lead free solders is the problem of tin whiskers. Ironically these future failures (that's unfair), planned obsolescences (too cunning), scheduled mishaps (too forced), unpredictable anticipated catastrophic occurrences (now that's a good layer of gobbledygook) will be creating many more landfill than what would have happened with lead based solders.

Yes, but of course lead is just one of the materials banned by RoHS. And I believe the euros already mandate the recycling of electronics, in fact, I believe it's required that the manufacturer also do the recycling. I'm not sure where I heard that.

Tin whiskers are the bane of military / aerospace designers. It's not such a big deal with consumer electronics - you're going to throw that thing away in a couple of years and buy a new one. But military systems are maintained for years and years, and space craft need to fly for many years, without servicing.

I understand that there are new technologies that defeat tin whiskers, but I haven't kept up with them since I'm required to use lead.

This also reminds me that bird shot and fishing weights are no longer made of lead.

When I was a kid I'd use my mouth as a third hand to hold lead solder when I was building stuff. Maybe that's why my hair fell out so early.

Yes I used to bite solder from the reel third handedly....

But I don't yet suffer from...erm, what's it called again?

Hi Lemmy,

Biting solder, never a good idea.

I have just noticed your 'Moto', I like it!

Take care

<...lead is just one of the materials banned by RoHS...>

Lead is still used for flashing on roofs, so it isn't a banned material.

<...the euros already mandate the recycling of electronics...>

It's called the WEEE directive.

_{Indeed, but in the interests of health and safety I've had my lead cosh re-cast in silver/tin alloy .}

Del

Hi Del,

Very good advice, thanks!

Yup, I keep a reel of the good old melty stuff on my bench at work and at home.
The girls in the factory have to use the modern lead free stuff which is ok now we've found a reliable circuit board supplier & new bits for the irons etc, but we had a few quality probs to start with.
Del

lol @ "girls in the factory"

I remember when I started at a military plant 30 years ago and saw these long rows of grandmothers with their ivy plants and family photos building missile guidance systems.

_{hmmm, yes, they are all 40 plus, but then women are better over 40 .
Del}

_{hmmm, yes, they are all 40 plus, but then women are better over 40}

There. Fixed it for you.

Older women don't swell,

Older women don't tell,

Older women just enjoy it.

Yep, I too, have a couple of reels of rosin cored solder..........and about half a dozen sticks of the "good" stuff..............I even have my old blow lamp that is still in working order.

Hi MOBI,

I loved those Blow Lamps! Always an achievement when you eventually got them going? A little bit like start an old boiler, where there was certain checks to be done before it would light?

Take care and happy new year

Always an achievement when you eventually got them going?

Too true babybear, many is the times I have had it going like a flame thrower (maybe not quite as effective), but still a good show!!!!

In my younger days I did manage to start a small grass fire.......which I fortunately managed to extinguish with a garden hose.

Hi MOBI,

I recall the first time I used one and broke all six panes of glass on a garage door! I used paint stripper after that for anything near glass!

It is a mute point of whether they are safer than the gas alternative? With the gas comes to chance of the cannister exploding. I have never heard or seen a paraffin blow lamp blowing up?

Take care................

ALL SIX???!!!
One..ok.
Two...hmm something wrong here.
Three....yeah, definitely something wrong...maybe try one more.
Whoops that's four.

But all six
I admire your persistence
Del

Hi Del,

Hope you had a wonderful holiday and a grand new year!

I have to admit three panes broke at once as I was trying to strip the centre bars. Actually it would have been almost cheaper for me to get new doors! They were rotten and the glass was lose anyway. Even more lose after I had finished! Fortunately there was a glaziers nearby but getting the iron hard putty out took as long as the stripping had.

Take care Del...............

Short answer: politics. Long answer: lead is highly toxic and can cause longterm brain damage, so concerns about the longterm exposure to lead fumes resulting from soldering has resulted in many companies banning the use of lead solder for fear of future lawsuits from their former employees.

Yep, I know it's toxic. I have a little fan exhaust I use in the shop if I'm doing a lot, like with stained glass work, and I really scrub my hands afterwards when I do any soldering. I think I'll have to break down and invest in a new soldering iron station for me. And, get some good flux. Still, what's a little more brain damage at my stage?

Hi TP45,

Happy new year BTW!

Try reading this. It seems to explain the reasons. But I have read just a few lined and even before that I can see why they may be phasing out lead solder. Imagine all those long lead solder baths in electronic factories and all that nasty vapour. I know they have extractor fans, but if you live 'downwind' you will be constantly breathing this stuff in, and slowly or not so slowly going nuts!

I lived in a house where someone was eating the lead paint from the walls. Yes it was a really old house. There person had to go into hospital as his mind was totally screwed.

This first link is the search field:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=why+use+lead+free+solder

Good luck.

Back in the 40's and 50's, our house in New York had lead pipe as did most of the older structures in those days.

Hi ronseto,

Yes same here. Often the only way to re-pipe a house with copper was to wipe the first 4" 10 cm, to the copper mains. Not perfect but where the mains was buried or was just not get 'attable' it was the only choice.

Take care.

Dear TVP45,

I was recently renovating a 1960s valve amp which needed new electrolytics fitting;applying the iron to the various joints produced a heady aroma of old style resin flux and everything else which made good soldering a real pleasure! When it came to reinstating the bits and pieces the new 'stuff' showed a lesser affinity for the job in hand, but a rake about in the junk box revealed a length of the old stuff and soon things were as they should be.

During the 80s much publicity in health terms seemed to focus on the effects of the fumes generated by flux rather than the miniscule quantity of lead liberated in the process; as far as lab technicians were advised .This was addressed with installing LEV systems.

Notwithstanding all the attention given the success of joining circuit components effectively and quickly with the minimum exposure to high temperatures is of paramount importance in my book!

Good luck for 2010!

Massey.

Hi Massey,

I have not used silver solder. I last used any solder about 20 years ago, and that was to 'wipe' a joint while plumbing. From what I have read here it seems silver solder does not like the old lead solder but, if the item is new and has solver solder used on it would it not be more likely to accept the silver solder?

Take care and happy new year

Hi Babybear,

Good to hear from you. My 'wiping' is not pretty but is water tight and yes affinity for the parent metal with a generous helping of tin gives title to the name 'Tinsmans solder' what a product; it could be 'maltreated' by amateurs or caressed into masterpieces by craftsmen!

As far as the new stuff is concerned I am not impressed and that goes for the 'lead free' capillary fittings on sale for general plumbing work as the solder tends to be relucant to flow and therefore the trade plumber 'piles on the heat' and over-cooked and potentially leak prone installations can be created.

Happy New Year and keep in touch.

Massey.

It's good stuff babybear...........and easy to use......use it correctly and it follows the heat source like a treat. Cleanliness of the material(s) is very important.

In marine applications we use 50% + silver.......otherwise galvanic action will usually occur if it is a sea water system.

Hi MOBI,

Appreciate the info, thank you.

I was not aware of the 50%/50% silver/lead in ocean going vessels.

Take care.

I've been using tin/copper solder (99.3/0.7) for several years now. True, the melting point (227°C cf ≈190°C for tin/lead 60/40) is higher, but I've not had any problems with either new joints or rework. I use the same 15W mains iron¹ (max. tip temp. 370°C) that I used to use for the tin/lead.

So-called "silver" solder² is typically silver/tin/copper (4/95.5/0.5), melting at ≈215°C; should be no problem (though I haven't used it).

¹ I don't use a "proper" temperature-controlled soldering station - generally I lug enough tools around without wanting or needing the additional weight. The soldering I do is mostly repair work, with the odd bit of prototype stuff when I can't get anyone else to do it!

² Not to be confused with misnamed "silver solder" used for brazing - which melts at about 450°C

I've used both lead and lead free. I like the lead free one, looks much better and shiny. Its a bit harder to melt. Need to wait for the iron to really heat up first.