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220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/28/2010 11:49 PM

I went to a home to change a plug on a garage heater. when I disassembled the outlet I found only 2 hot leads and no ground/neutral. is there ever a time this is a proper setup?? (I think I know the answer to this but thought I would ask!!)

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#1

Re: 220v outlet no neutral??

01/29/2010 3:18 AM
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#2

Re: 220v Outlet No Neutral??

01/29/2010 8:40 AM

If this home has two or three phase 115 VAC supply, this is the way to get 220 VAC.

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#7
In reply to #2

Re: 220v Outlet No Neutral??

01/30/2010 10:30 AM

Regards.

In USA this is the system where phase is split to provide 110-0-110 out of single phase while centre is considered as Earth Not Nuetral

See:

Electricity_distribution

In the U.S. and parts of Canada and Latin America, split phase service is the most common. Split phase provides both 120 V and 240 V service with only three wires. Split phase has substations that provide intermediate voltage. The house voltages are provided by neighborhood transformers that lower the voltage of a phase of the distributed three-phase. The neutral is directly connected to the three-phase neutral. Socket voltages are only 120 V, but 240 V is available for heavy appliances because the two phases oppose each other.

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#19
In reply to #7

Re: 220v Outlet No Neutral??

02/03/2010 12:08 AM

Haajee; the 0 is the ground/neutral at the in coming service panel, it is one phase with a center tap normally called the neutral/earth/ground perry.

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#3

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/29/2010 1:24 PM

Assuming you are in the US and it was supposed to be a 220V outlet and if it is an older home (pre-60s?), that would have been the norm. It would no longer meet current code standards, but if all you are doing is replacing it, you can. If you are changing anything about the circuit, you will be required to bring the entire circuit up to code.

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#4

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/30/2010 12:12 AM

In a 240 load all the current flows in the hot leads. There simply is no need for a neutral though there should be a ground for safety. I installed a general purpose 240 volt outlet in my shop and used 4 wires and a 4 prong connector because I may at times use it to power 120 volt devices and so need a current carrying neutral.

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#5

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/30/2010 5:29 AM

If the load is rated for 220v and the potential difference in the 2 leads is 220v,then you may connect.If u are not sure of earthing,then provide earthing,if your work scope demands.

Note that in some cases electricians do not respect cable colour codes for live,neutral and earth,so u can test and correct such when you meet it.

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#6

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/30/2010 5:34 AM

Unless it has an isolating transformer

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#8

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/30/2010 1:51 PM

dear friend, this is simple reson...your plug point is 2phase 220 v supply system. single phse is 110v.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/30/2010 4:42 PM

Hmmm, two phase power? I have heard of this mysterious phenomenon but have never encountered it.

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/31/2010 8:51 AM

Regards.

Delta output transmission is common in USA & some other countries. See :

*********** Quote **************

In many areas, "delta" three phase service is common. Delta service has no distributed neutral wire and is therefore less expensive. The three coils in the generator rotor are in series, in a loop, with the connections made at the three joints between the coils. Ground is provided as a low resistance earth ground, sometimes attached to a synthetic ground made by a transformer in a substation. High frequency noise (like that made by arc furnaces) can sometimes cause transients on a synthetic ground.

Ref: Electricity distribution From Wikipedia

*********** Quote Ends **************

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#10

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/30/2010 10:32 PM

The National Electrical Code (USA) requires that the neutral be carried with all current carrying conductors, even if the neutral is not used to carry any current. An equipment ground is also required, even on 3 phase systems. So to do it properly, you need 4 conductors: 2 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 green (equipment grounding conductor).

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/30/2010 10:38 PM

So is every 240V dryer outlet I've seen in every house I've been in in my entire life in violation? Because I've never seen a dryer outlet with a neutral connector. Only two big flat hots and one round ("D" shaped) ground.

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/31/2010 9:27 AM

Regards.

And this is true because I have confirmed from some of my friends they say that the houses in which [bigger houses or independent ] have 220V for dryers, Carpet cleaner normall called Hoovers [due to i think the Trade name of the company], Kitchen etc.

And 110V also is available.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/31/2010 9:21 AM

Regards

OK but what we get info from web it differs somewhat:

********** Quote ***********

In the U.S. and parts of Canada and Latin America, split phase service is the most common. Split phase provides both 120 V and 240 V service with only three wires. Split phase has substations that provide intermediate voltage. The house voltages are provided by neighborhood transformers that lower the voltage of a phase of the distributed three-phase. The neutral is directly connected to the three-phase neutral. Socket voltages are only 120 V, but 240 V is available for heavy appliances because the two phases oppose each other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_distribution

********** Quote Ends***********

********** Quote ***********

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase

A transformer supplying a 3-wire distribution system has a single-phase input (primary) winding. The output (secondary) winding is center-tapped and the center tap connected to neutral. This 3-wire system is common in countries with a standard phase-neutral voltage of 120 V. In this case, the transformer voltage is 120 V on either side of the center tap, giving 240 V between the two live conductors.

********** Quote Ends ***********

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/31/2010 11:14 PM

Have all of you experience this?

Neutral and Earth for 240Vac system have potential difference of 7 Vac?

When we loop the N to Earth there is a current loop of 17 amps.

Could this be the Earthing at Transformer neutral has bad connection or the earthing.

Thanks if somebody could help me.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

01/31/2010 11:22 PM

7/17=0.41 ohms (ground does not carry current so you measure voltage drop from common connection to load end of wire) 1.619 ohms per thousand feet of #12 gage wire so unless you have a feed approximately 250 long or are using much lower gauge (you don't specify) wire then you have extra resistance somewhere. The ground and neutral should be same bus at the pannel.

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

02/01/2010 6:01 AM

In which country you are residing please.

Every country has a different way of House wiring and some places you may find not done correctly.

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#18

Re: 220V Outlet - No Neutral?

02/02/2010 11:25 AM

Being in the Central United States and from the old school commercial and residentcial Electrician the Home washers and dryers had to be wired with a neutral circuit as the elements were 230 volts and the motors were 120 volts so this was a necessity, altho, many of the 230 volt heating and cooling equipment ran the elements and the motors on 230 volts, as well as many of the commercial units and required only two wire installation and, of course, all equipment had to be properly grounded. Many times I found myself needing a neutral circuit in a remote location and in an emergency having the right HP motor but the wrong voltage...In Okla. at that time the neutral and earth ground were connected, but the earth ground was bare copper in most places which left you hunting for a neutral and being electrically safe..Now as then, follow the wiring diagram that comes with the equipment..

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