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Anonymous Poster

Water in Elevator Shaft

03/04/2010 11:21 AM

I have a problem with water in our elevator shaft. The floor of the shaft is not level and water that can't get to the subpump pit pools and has caused a "rust like" build up and smells awful.

Periodically, we have someone clean it out, but that seems to stir up a foul smell that is offensive. My questions are 1) Is this "rust like" material harmful to breathe? 2) What can we do to prevent this water from laying there?

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: office manager

03/04/2010 11:29 AM

Bring the low spots up to grade or more with cement grout so that there is pitch from every point to the sump. Problem solve.

The foul smell is hydrogen-sulfide gas (rotten eggs) caused by anerobic decomposition. You have a tiny septic tank in your elevator shaft caused by the poor floor grading.

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Guru
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#4
In reply to #1

Re: office manager

03/04/2010 11:15 PM

GA for that answer.. great way to handle the drainage problems. then you just have to fix the smell and mold etc.

here's a start.

Chris

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Guru
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#2

Re: Water in Elevator Shaft

03/04/2010 12:01 PM

Hydrogen sulphide knocks out the sense of smell above certain concentrations and is toxic to humans by inhalation. It is a particular hazard in municipal waste water processing, and confined space entry training is required of all operatives working in sumps and pits, inside vessels, etc. in that industry in the UK. Part of this training requires the use of personal gas exposure monitors that are sensitive to it.

If there is a lot of water to remove consider hiring the monitoring equipment and using forced ventilation while the remedial works are being carried out.

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Anonymous Poster
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Water in Elevator Shaft

03/04/2010 12:11 PM

Yes, good point. Treat this as a confined space entry. I should have mentioned that in my post #1.

The consequences can be serious.

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Power-User

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#5

Re: Water in Elevator Shaft

03/04/2010 11:37 PM

Depending on depth it may be easier to take a small diamond grinder and effect the necessary drainage. Definitely use proper confined space practices. If grinding won't work there are many floor leveling compounds that will adhere better than grout. It will take serious cleaning to assure adhesion. Even Home Depot can help you there.

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Guru

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#6

Re: Water in Elevator Shaft

03/05/2010 1:16 AM

You did not say how far below grade your elevator shaft extends. Excavations in urban areas often encounter ground water high in H2S. I suspect that the ground water entering the sump is elevated in the sulphides and not just the incidental water not being drained to the sump. The rust like deposits are likely the result another nuisance bacteria called iron bacteria.

H2S is caused by the reduction of organic matter under anaerobic conditions by sulphur reducing bacteria (SRB). These bacteria thrive in biofouled environments. Iron bacteria will create a coating of slime on the formation. Underlying the iron bacteria slime is an ideal environment devoid of oxygen where SRB thrive. As the biofilm sloughs H2S enters the water and releases its wonderful aroma. Often iron sulphide will be evident as black deposits and often slimy like a runny tar. Why do we notice it more in an urban environment? One reason may be that some of the sewers are old and leaking into the underlying formation. This organic matter then becomes the food for the nuisance bacteria. SRB are very clever and need only a small amount of organic to grow. The organic need not come from exfiltration of the sewers but could be from low levels of natural TOC or total organic carbon although I suspect the sewers as part or all of the problem. The presence of iron and sulphur together indicates an advanced level of these bacteria and lots of biofouling.

What cure is there? If you can rectify the drainage you may still be faced with a sump that smells. As an aside, I did work on a hospital with a sump about 35 feet below grade. It was a new wing on a very old building. The new sump had very high levels of H2S (>10 mg/L) and resulted in the hospital wing being closed and not officially opened. Copper pipe newly installed had blackened as evidence of the airborne sulphide. This sump was discharged to the storm drain (not sewage line) that collected water from curbs, roofs and other buildings in the area. When the hospital discharged it created smells in neighbouring buildings and led to the close of the library because of H2S release in that building.

The best cure we had was to install a chemical pump that fed 35% peroxide on a timed bases to control the odour. It was very effective. Peroxide has the added mechanical feature of bubbles being released that helps to penetrate the biofilm. It is also environmentally friendly and can be discharged to storm drains. It will degrade rapidly in a storm drain environment.You may want to try hand dosing (say 1 liter of 35 % mixed in a 20 liter pail of water) the sump before installing anything more permanent. However I do suspect you will need more than the odd swabbing of the elevator shaft to achieve good results long term. Good Luck. Here are the reactions.

8 H2S(g) + 8 H2O2(aq) = S8(s) + 16 H2O(l)

or in more alkaline environments

S2-(aq) + 4 H2O2 (aq) = SO42- (aq) + 4 H2O(l)

Peroxide is best do not use a hypochlorite or you will not be able to discharge it to storm drains.

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#7

Re: Water in Elevator Shaft

03/05/2010 5:52 AM

We also had similar problem in our lift shaft. It was due to choked up drainage pipe which was running near the shaft. We got the drainage chamber and pipe cleaned up and when shaft's walls were dry we applied water proof cement coat. After this this water seepage has stopped.

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Anonymous Poster
#8

Re: Water in Elevator Shaft

03/05/2010 12:12 PM

Have a concrete or tile company "float" the floor, to direct the water to the sump-pump. i am sure you have an inch or two clearance, which is plenty of fall to make the water run to the pump.

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Guru

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#9

Re: Water in Elevator Shaft

03/05/2010 3:56 PM

Depending upon just how deep the pooling is away from the sump, you may find that you can saw cut grooves from the pooling area to the sump. This can be done with an electric or gasoline powered saw. Expansion "joint" saw cuts are done this way on many construction projects, especially where tile or vinyl flooring is to be installed. This is an easy fix provided the concrete floor is not going to be compromised because it is too thin.

TMF

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Anonymous Poster
#10

Re: Water in Elevator Shaft

03/20/2010 7:28 AM

First make 20 mm drill x 150 mm and put pipe pice than join with pressure pump and grout cement slurry that is 3 part +1 part bentonite mix with 2 part water starer and by pressure pump grout 60 psi pressure (any volume cut bottle and make a part of volume ) once pit will dry smell will gose automatinc if you can't understand contact me basantidas_2003@yahoo.co.in or 09869657461

basantidas (India) we are solving this problem 150 per year

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Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: Water in Elevator Shaft

05/18/2010 4:22 PM

The best solution would be to stop the water from getting in to the pit to begin with. Most contractors say they can stop it but use materials like epoxy or expanding foam which do not work. What you need is an acrylic resin that is truly hydrophilic and can be injected into where the water is coming in from. CGI-Texas, bbz or deenef are the only ones with the proper materials and knowledge that I know of.

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