Adhering bronze to bronze

This question will generate dozens of recommendations from the group. Don't use liquid nails. It's too viscous and sticky and is intended for gluing big stuff, not jewelry.

You could use a two part epoxy or cyanoacrylate with accelerator.

Whatever you use, the MOST important part of adhesive bonding is surface preparation prior to bonding. The adherends (parts) must be totally free of any surface contamination. Do not handle the bond area with bare hands, at all after lightly abrading the surface and cleaning with at least alcohol.

How much surface area do you have? What do the parts look like? How long does the bond have to last? Are the bonded surfaces flat?

Your turn.

i made and octopus ring so the surface are i have is really small. im attaching some tentacles to the body of the ring. the bond doesnt have to be heavy duty, just so that they stick together for the critique in class. i tried to make the bonded surfaces as flat as i can.

thanks for your help

This is not easy. Without more detail I'd say get a good CA (see first post) Keep everything ultra clean and use the smallest amount you can transfer to the bond line. It's really difficult to remove exposed, cured adhesive. Especially if you don't want it to stick.

Adhesives do not work better if they are thicker.(like liquid nails) And a thicker bond line is weaker than a thin one.

Practice first..........until you can do it to the real thing without making a mess.

Buy the following; Super Alloy 1. It will weld the two together at 350 degrees.

Search Muggy Weld, they have this cheap and you wil not get kicked out of class for using liquid nails. Ha ha.

#1 is correct if you are doing a class with no soldering involved. if you go to a hobby shop you can get a cheap pencil flame torch that will bond the two together with the mentioned solder. Then buff it out.

Best of Luck!

i would like to stay as far away from a flame as possible, so any two part epoxy would work? or is there a certain type that would be best. if i must use a flame then i will, but i would like to try other options if possible.

thanks for all of your help

My sister-in-law makes custom art jewelry. She uses an air-acetylene torch. Either soldering or brazing is likely to be best for this type of work; adhesives are xxxx and unreliable. There is a learning curve both in skill and in picking the right joining metal or alloy (and flux) to prevent melting of the parent metal, for instance. For bronze work, silver-phosphorus ("Silfos") solder might be a good candidate. (She's the expert, not I.) One key to the process is to position the flame so that only its correct temperature zone makes contact with the work.

If you went for the soldering/brazing solution some have suggested, you'd undoubtedly get a better end product, but I think you'd need an awful lot of practice to get it right. You'd prob'ly also need to make a jig to hold everything in place (i.e. all the legs + body) - it would be very easy (and v. frustrating) to overheat the body and re-melt completed joints while working on the next.

I'd suggest using Del's socket approach, with a two-part fast setting adhesive. Araldite Instant will give you a minute or so to get the position just right before setting - best for one or two legs at a time; Araldite Rapid sets in about 20 minutes, so you could do all the legs, but you'd need to support them all up to about ½hr (after mixing). E01 and E18 Loctite are products with respectively similar-ish setting times, tho' you'd need to check the individual datasheets (if you can find them!^[1]) to get it right.

Last point: whichever your approach, practice on test pieces first.

Good luck,
John

Reading back over the thread, it sounds like it may be too late to do the socket joints on the legs.

What's the actual scale of the item? If it were big enough, another approach would be to drill the legs & body and use dowel pins.

I imagine your tutor should be able to lay hands on suitable material for the pins; if not, you can make them by annealing^[1] a fine sewing pin or needle & cutting to length.

[1] Engineering pins are typically hardened steel, but you don't need that much strength here, and annealing will make it much easier to cut and de-burr - you'll also be able to bend the pin a bit if the drilling doesn't come out spot-on. Anneal by heating to red heat (a cigarette lighter flame will do this) and allow to cool slowly (i.e. don't quench it in water or oil). Cut using e.g. a Dremel tool with a fine cutting disk. WEAR EYE PROTECTION!

I was about to suggest the same. A close tolerance dowel will add both strength and stability with both pieces pre-treated with a very small amount of a clear activated epoxy resin. The joint should be firmly secured while the epoxy has time to cure. The heat from the catalyst used to harden the resin shouldn't be too much to push the joint apart but, i would use a light bulb or something to warm the metal before applying the epoxy and allow the bulb to keep the metal warm until cured. The dowel is best if made from the same material the parts are made from so expansion and contraction are the same for all three pieces.

Hi,

get experienced to brazing with low melting-point silver braze.

For industrial work this is available as 2mm wire coated with flux.

This maybe too coarse for your work.

So try separate braze and flux.

I used Ag72Cu22In6 and Ag72Cu28 with very good success.

You can also use brass as soldering metal.

Flux was from DEGUSSA and also "Fluoron" used by commercial jewelers.

RHABE

Rhabe,

What's the Indium for?

Thanks,

Titi-the-rabbit

Super glue!

The intitial response from lynlynch is the most apt, IMO, for this project...as well as the ""Super Glue", which of course is cyanoacrylate, but is also available under many other trade names. This is based on the assumption that this piece is a one-shot deal for display and grading only, not to be a piece worn as an adornment. Clean, clean, clean, and then put on the disposable gloves while handling; and do practice with some toothpicks first. Apply the cyano with the tip of a sewing needle and use the instant-set type. When finished, you will probably have some of the adhesive which will be showing as a different gloss than the bronze, so you could try adding one of many chemical mixtures to create a false patina from the bronze. See this site for many recipes. www.sciencecompany.com/patinas/patinaformulas.htm#5. At which point when all is said and done, you could spray the piece with a semi-gloss clear enamel/acrylic/lacquer/etc. to obtain a consistant appearance for the entire work surface.

Thank you! My point exactly.

I would not do it any of those ways...My method would be to cut a flat octopus shaped brass or copper backing plate, and solder your relief sculpture to that. (Or use five minute epoxy if it is small enough. Excess epoxy can be wiped away before it is quite dry with cotton tipped sticks dipped in lacquer thinner) This backing plate is called an "armature" and should have been part of the sculptural design from the get go.

While I don't believe that "glue" is likely to be the best method for your particular application, I've found that E6000 is an excellent all-around adhesive for typical jewelry applications. I use it extensively for the sculpted wire jewelry designs I make when I need to attach the jewelry item (typically gold filled or silver wire) to another item (for example, a plastic hair comb). It can be used either as direct application or as a contact cement. Caveat; slow curing time.

You can get it here or many other places. (I have no financial interest in the link. It's just one of many places to get E6000.)

Hooker

Hi,

Your suggestion is an epoxy? Adhesive or glue are the same said by two different person talking about the samething.

A good 2-pack epoxy system with some heating must be the better and much faster.

This was a suggestion and the trial must be your, Gil.

Sorry for the confusion. E6000 is a rubber based glue, not a two part epoxy. But both are adhesives.

Epoxies are good for certain applications, and glue (whether rubber based or otherwise) for other applications. I use E6000 for jewelry because I usually do not want a hard, brittle adhesive for something that's going to be handled a lot, and may be dropped or otherwise abused in normal use. E6000 is also washable under normal circumstances.

Hooker

Hi Hooker,

Yes, E6000 is probably a Neopren based glue. However, you can obtain a 2-pack epoxy that is flexible, fast cure and retain the glued object far better way than any solvent or water based glue can do. Point view of health, I don't suggest to use chlorinated solvents as this glue contains. Suggestion from a helper, Gil.

No, E6000 is a rubber based glue.

I use it because it is a lot less hassle than mixing up a batch of 2 part epoxy, especially when I'm not sure exactly how much I'll need. E6000 is applied directly out of the tube. A whole lot more convenient and I have no problem with the curing time for what I do.

Hooker

There are already too many opinions here, and every one will insist that their solution is best. I pity the poor Guest, who now has to sort through all the opinions about everyone's favorite adhesive. (E6000 is glue to me)

Remember, one-off display, not worn.

Just a word of caution about E6000, and some other solvent laden glues. While you will be working with very small amounts of this product, be advised that it contains about 75% by volume Tetrachloroethylene.

Check here: TETRACHLOROETHYLENE

Good luck.

Hi Guest,

Most of two pack epoxy systems work well. I don't know the use on exact materials used but without hesitation, from a reputable company, I would use highly accelerated epoxy system. Very short, few minutes only with fast curing time, and can be heated to up to 50*C, 75*C or eventually 100*C and plus, depending of the materials used. The glueing system will be excellent. Try it!

My suggestion is to see the Patent of company Ugine, French inventor of stainless steel and welding of stainless steel and copper together for the bottom of pans (Casseroles). I don't have the patent number but you can find it. Good luck, Gil.

Some epoxies react with copper alloys and bond failure results long term. Cyano acrylates can be a good choice. Many of these are transparent and are invisible.