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Anonymous Poster

Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/08/2010 1:01 AM

I'm a young engineer that was recently given the task to learn the answer to the following:

Phosphoric Acid

: Our current application is such that we are storing phosphoric acid (75% concentration) in HEPA filter vented 316 SS tanks and transferring in 316 SS piping. The phos acid is transported into a batching tank for mixture.

Slurry Mixture

: The phosphoric acid is an ingredient in a number of our meat slurry recipes, ranging from 0.5 to 1.0% of the final mixture by weight. The final pH of our batches/mixtures range between 2.2 and 3.2. The equipment being used for the handling, batching/mixing, storage, and transfer of our meat slurries is made of 316 SS as well.

Acid Substitution

: We are considering substituting our phosphoric acid with one of the following:

- Hydrochloric acid (36 to 37% concentration)

- Sulfuric acid (50 to 60% concentration)

The more concentrated acid we use, the less of the acid we will add in order to obtain our desired pH.

Higher Concentration

: Separately, we are also considering increasing our phos acid concentration from 75% to 85%

In summary, I am wanting to learn:

(1) if there would be heightened safety and/or corrosion concerns if switching to either hydrochloric acid or sulfuric acid with respect to (a) the current 316 SS tanks/pipes used to exclusively handle phosphoric acid, (b) the current 316 SS batching/mixing tank which the ingredients are combined, mixed, and stored in [with phos acid making up 1% or less] and (c) the current 316 SS piping used to transfer the batched mixture to our production lines.

(2) if there would be heightened safety and/or corrosion concerns if switching from 75% phosphoric acid to 85% phosphoric acid on the above mentioned 316 SS equipment.

As you may need a few gaps filled in on the above, feel free to reply to this post with any questions you have. I'd sincerely appreciate any feedback you are able to give me at this time.

Respectfully,

-Jason

Midwest, USA

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Guru
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#1

Re: Acidic stainless steel application

04/08/2010 3:15 AM

Corrosion concerns are paramount. Check the Cole-Parmer materials compatibility database for suitable materials for the other liquids.

Consider also the inherent safety of the process. If it doesn't matter whether phosphoric, hydrochloric or sulphuric acids are used, then why use acid at all <rhetorical question>?

It sounds as though a Chemical Engineer's input is needed on this one.

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#2

Re: Acidic stainless steel application

04/08/2010 3:33 AM

Further thoughts:

If the acid is to be ingested then there are personal safety implications to be considered. Phosphoric acid is found in principle brands of cola drink, for example, and hydrochloric in the stomach naturally. Sulphuric really doesn't need to be brought near biological systems in any significant concentration......

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#3

Re: Acidic stainless steel application

04/08/2010 6:32 AM

Your questions are quite complex. I mean you've different scenarios with different acids at different concentrations and they shall be carefully evaluated.

Just a consideration:

if you want to use phosphoric acid -

http://www.stainless-steel-world.net/pdf/10015.pdf

Hope this helps you

Vittorio

corrosion & rust control

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#4

Re: Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/08/2010 10:38 AM

Follow the links provided by PWSlack and strider. Remember, chloride (as in HCl) is always a no-no with stainless steel!

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#5

Re: Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/08/2010 10:41 AM

I have 3 4 things to say:

1. Do you know what the "P" in HEPA stands for? If you do, explain.

2. You should not be asking for answers, you should be asking for current recognized reference material that you can procure and keep on your book shelf at the office.

3. Although overused here, the fishing analogy is appropriate.

4. This sounds like homework, but........................

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#6

Re: Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/08/2010 1:08 PM

Am I the only one who is curious about, "HEPA filter vented 316 SS tanks"?

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/09/2010 8:44 AM

High Efficiency Particulate Absorbing(Arresting) Filter. It is used to keep contaminates out of the tank as the tank is emptied.

Our young engineer Jason should also check to see that the filter media is compatible with the acids as any vapors will affect the filter. Nothing worse than having it disintegrate and contaminate the process! Kind of useless at that point.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/09/2010 10:50 AM

As long as he doesn't think that the filter is filtering/controlling vapors. Surely the filter media is compatible.?

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#7

Re: Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/08/2010 11:24 PM

Stainless Steel IS NOT COMPATIBLE with HCl!!! As a young engineer you should check your compatibility charts as one of your first steps. As an old one you should also do it.

Also review the existing system to make sure it was designed correctly initially. There could be some very big goofs made by the original designer which you no doubt will be blamed for if there are any problems with you final system. This would be especially true if it was your present boss who designed the original system.

Smart engineers always remember Murphy's Law and that Murphy was an optomist!

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#10

Re: Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/09/2010 12:27 PM

Hi Guest,

Try certain organic acids like citric or sulfamic. I don't know the slurry you have but check if you can substitute phosphoric with those organics? Wish you good luck, Gil.

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#11

Re: Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/10/2010 6:47 PM

I don't know if I would trust someone wanting to use Sulfuric acid, Hydrochloric acid in a meat slurry recipes. Since its most likely going to food product like chicken nugget. And Wikipedia Meat Slurry.

It just don't sound like good eats to me.

Just my 2 cents.

Charles

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Acidic Stainless Steel Application

04/12/2010 10:43 AM

Hi,

Don't be surprised! Processed food is contains many un-wished chemicals like sulphuric and phosphoric acids. Look the label of Coka Cola, phosphoric acid is the main product with another chemicals. Between the dead and the transpormation of the animal to eatable form, takes time, and it can be days. These acids kill all bacterias, decomposition products as virus, and other fonguses. The slurry is the way they eliminate what is directly dangereous to us. Also, meat changes it's colour, and becomes photogenic. It looks nice this steak! At place of pale chicken nuggets you get pinkish. Good appetite from Gil.

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Gil Becker (2); lyn (3); metalSmiths (1); Mikerho (1); MLHemmer (1); old salt (1); PWSlack (2); strider6 (1)

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