Previous in Forum: 1 Pole Reclosing in 2nd Zone   Next in Forum: Need Help: Stepper Motor Hiccup
Close
Close
Close
14 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster

Vacuum Tube

04/14/2010 3:40 PM

Does any know; will a vacuum tube handle 200volts DC and operate like a PNP and NPN Transistor? Can it handle Switching polarity 100,000 per min?

Where can I buy them?

Henry

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Moses Lake, WA, USA, Thulcandra - The Silent Planet (C.S. Lewis)
Posts: 4216
Good Answers: 194
#1

Re: vacume tube

04/14/2010 4:51 PM

Why does it have to be a tube? What is it you are trying to do?

__________________
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." - Ayn Rand
Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Petroleum Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spring, Texas
Posts: 3403
Good Answers: 150
#2

Re: vacume tube

04/14/2010 5:22 PM

Depends on the vacuum tube. there are literally thousands of designs. And most are getting very very difficult to find these days, you can find audio amp tubes because guitar players still drink the vacuum tube kool-aid and refuse to use anything that doesn't use power hungry fragile glass vials in their amplifiers. vacuum tubes still find a very useful niche in very high power radio frequency power amplifiers and microwave transmitters because they have a faster slew rate than just about any solid state component capable of handling the same power. (solid state power dissipation goes up with slew rate quite quickly.)

__________________
Who is John Galt?
Reply
Guru
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 2181
Good Answers: 255
#3

Re: vacume tube

04/14/2010 5:47 PM

Depends on thedevice that you specify/get.

I suspect that the technical challenge will be the distance for electrical isolation that you need for your voltage relative to the frequency that you have specified.

As an aside, I once saw a 3 phase mercury filled vacuum device. It was teh main rectifier for a coal mine and was rated some 300 plus amps at 1,100 volts. It was connected direct to mains. It had been decommissioned by the time that I saw it, but was located on a concrete pad in the middle of a paddock. Its enclosure was 2 shells of hand placed Lead bricks to stop the radiation and UV that it emitted while in operation.

It stood around 2' high and was around 3' diameter across the three poles.

__________________
Just an Engineer from the land down under.
Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chicago suburbs, USA
Posts: 73
Good Answers: 21
#4

Re: Vacuum Tube

04/14/2010 6:55 PM

Most vacuum tubes operate with plate voltages of at least 1-200 volts, and many higher power tubes operate at many thousands of volts. Most common vacuum tubes are voltage-controlled device - electron flow can be controlled by varying the voltage on the grid closest to the cathode (G1 or the control grid). In this regard, they behave more like MOSFET transistors than junction (PNP or NPN) transistors. Small receiving tubes were used in early digital computers (1940's and early 1950's) to fabricate various logical functions and to provide temporary storage and switching functions (via Eccles-Jordan flip flop circuits). Vacuum tubes are comparatively fast (compared to mechanical computers), and switching 100,000 times/minute would be no problem... in fact switching rates of 100,000 - 1 million times/second would be more like it.

Some vacuum tubes are still being made, but most low power vacuum tubes are only available from surplus stock or as pulls from obsolete equipment. Many collectors and hobbyists buy, sell, and trade vacuum tubes on eBay and Amazon.com, and some audio enthusiasts still prefer "vacuum tube sound" over solid state equipment. Another commercial source (of mostly high power or special function industrial tubes) include Richardson Electronics. Smaller/surplus sources can be found by simply Googling "vacuum tubes".

__________________
Stoneridge Engineering - Wreaking Havoc with Electrons for over 40 Years!
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#5

Re: Vacuum Tube

04/14/2010 7:35 PM

Henry,

You can try to search for "valves" (A.K.A tubes) for more information on where to buy and about tubes in general.

You should also find and buy a tube manual or see if you can find one online free.

100,000 switching cycles per minute and 200+ VDC is easy-peasy for most tubes and, yes, valves do function like a linear switch (like transistors).

I have no idea what you want to do and I am guessing you may not know either based on the type of questions you are asking.

Understanding tube theory will require some study and persistence on your part. There are many on-line tutorials. Here are just a few. Good luck!

Tube Manual

Tutorial1

Tutorial2

TubeCad

Tutorial3

Tutorial4

FunWithTubes

Electronics Index

Lynn Olsen

Tube Lab & Glasware

That will keep you busy for a year or two. :-)

Tubes require high voltage and high voltage bites fools. HIGH VOLTAGE CAN AND WILL KILL YOU!

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Petroleum Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spring, Texas
Posts: 3403
Good Answers: 150
#8
In reply to #5

Re: Vacuum Tube

04/14/2010 7:55 PM

I should also add that they can give off X-rays, depending on the tube and the application so you should make sure they are shielded. (usually lead bricks aren't necessary)

__________________
Who is John Galt?
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Vacuum Tube

04/14/2010 10:03 PM

I think that is only applicable for plate voltages in excess of 15 kV. Not many tubes live in that domain.

Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the pool because it is too hot.
Posts: 3054
Good Answers: 141
#6

Re: Vacuum Tube

04/14/2010 7:36 PM

Except some specialty vacuum tubes like the Image Tube of a conventional Television set and some Old timer amplifiers the vacuum tube has had its best time long time ago.

There are many type of vacuum tubes. Diode, triode, pentode, hexode and to be straight forward: I am happy we have the transistor and different semiconductors as replacements and better performers.

Yes it can switch 100.000 per minute as switch but only in on-off.

The anode of a vacuum tube is almost always polarized as + (positive = see the name: ANODE)

Most vacuum tubes have a filament because the cathode needs heat to work. (Yes, there are exceptions) Their current is also more limited.

If you want to switch polarities you will need more than one in a stage (like Baxandall) or Push Pull just like transistors.

You will need to create a 0 (voltage threshold) between and refer to - or +. If you really want a AC voltage, you will need a stage with output transformer. and for switching that is not so interesting.

The type TRIODE has also 3 connections: cathode, grid, anode. But a faster switch will work better in a Pentode vacuum tube.

Unless you want to build stuff for museums I would advise you to use semiconductors. Vacuum tubes become priceless, unless you get it from dumps.

The old timers of us might have some left.

__________________
Plenty of room here
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Evolution - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: The 'Space Coast', USA
Posts: 11119
Good Answers: 918
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Vacuum Tube

04/14/2010 7:47 PM

Bah! :-)

I can turn you onto sources for just about any tube you want. These are new tubes, most made in China, Russia, and eastern block countries. Some of these tubes are world class performers rivaling their ancestor counterparts.

If money is no object, there are sources for NOS tubes that will make your jaw drop when you see the price. However, stuff out of Russia, China, and the eastern block are priced cheaper than they cost in the 1960s when adjusting for inflation.

Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the pool because it is too hot.
Posts: 3054
Good Answers: 141
#10
In reply to #7

Re: Vacuum Tube

04/15/2010 12:33 AM

Well to be quite honest, I am referring to 17 years back. In Europe the originals became X3 to X 10 the price of the seventies. We probably relied on old stocks from originals. Good to know. Thanks for the hint. Dolf

__________________
Plenty of room here
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#11

Re: Vacuum Tube

04/15/2010 6:04 AM

Amusing, back when I was in school, folks used to ask how a transistor is like a vacuum tube. In a bipolar (PNP or NPN) transistor, a small current through the base-emitter circuit controls a large current through the emitter-collector circuit. The ratio is the gain of the transistor and is called beta or hfe. In a vacuum tube, the voltage between the grid and cathode controls the current in the cathode-anode circuit. The characteristics of a tube are more similar to an FET (field effect transistor) where the gate voltage controls the channel current. You should have no problem handling the voltage and frequency you specified. Tubes are used by some audiophiles who prefer the sound quality of a tube amplifier. You might find ads in magazines devoted to that interest. Most tubes these days, I believe, are made in Russia and Eastern Europe (and probably China).

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member United Kingdom - Big Ben - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Altair 8800 - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3968
Good Answers: 120
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Vacuum Tube

04/15/2010 6:46 AM

Field Effect transistors are analagous to tubes. Both are voltage devices, whereas bipolr transistors are current devices.

Both fets, transistors and tubes can handle 200 volts or more, various currents and speeds and power levels at various frequencies.

High power and high frequency = TV transmitters of 500,000 watts = tubes are king.

Transistors have eliminated tubes in many lower power transmitters on AM and FM, up to 10,000 watts, and that power is being pushed higher each year.

__________________
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#13
In reply to #11

Re: Vacuum Tube

05/04/2010 3:46 PM

Yes. I haven't looked at any electronics textbooks in years, but I would bet coverage of vacuum tube theory went by the wayside a long time ago. My first electronics textbook covered tubes first -- then solid state. Just shows the prevalence at the time.

Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Petroleum Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spring, Texas
Posts: 3403
Good Answers: 150
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Vacuum Tube

05/04/2010 4:15 PM

I went through my electronics coursework in the late 80's and there was not a single mention of vacuum tubes.

__________________
Who is John Galt?
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 14 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Hero (3); Anonymous Poster (2); aurizon (1); BertHickman (1); dvmdsc (2); Just an Engineer (1); Mikerho (1); Rorschach (3)

Previous in Forum: 1 Pole Reclosing in 2nd Zone   Next in Forum: Need Help: Stepper Motor Hiccup

Advertisement