Runway Asphalt Laying

How can you offer a credible suggestion without understanding the the few facts that were given.

You can go by what they offer. You can ask for further information. You can go by what you know about regulations, specifications, engineering, etc.. There are many ways of adding a credible suggestion or disagreement without attacking someone personally.

Just remember this is a educational tool for us and a way for us pool our knowledge. I've been using this site the past three years. I know I don't know everything, so I like to read about the suggestions and once in a while if I'm familiar about a topic I chime in.

Hopefully this helps

Bakerjohn, I have a question for you, okay?

You seem to be somewhat familar to me for some odd reason. Do you (or did you) happen to work for a Philly-based engineering firm that merged with a certain Houston-based engineering firm that primarily worked on FAA projects? This merger occurred between the two firms about 10 or 11 years ago.

There was a higher-up Project Manager named Frank W. (originally from Chicago) originally based in the Houston office that was promoted ten years or so ago to Vice President or somethig like that?

Just curious as all get go.......this firm had back then been working on the Philly Airport, and I think Newark NJ as well......also worked on the Albany (NY) International Airport for starters.......

Ahhhhh...just the mention of P209 Asphalt Hot-Mix Concrete makes my Moosie nostrils flare with anticipation.......the ultimate asphalt buzzzz as it's being placed by the paving machine and then vibratory rolled to perfection! Love the look of it in the nighttime work lights, like a sheet of perfect black glass! Yeeehahahaaha!!!!

I always loved a paving train at night. All the lights and noises not crazy people trying to kill you. It's the best.

I spent my first 5 years out of college at a mine site with an asphalt plant always loved the smell of it.

We recieved complaints at one of our sites a couple of years ago about the smell. We talked to the asphalt company and we where told that they had sented asphalt so we ordered cherry sented with-in a week the organizer of the group called us up begging us to go back to the regular asphalt.

Nope.

Right now I work for a Philly based construction/mining/asphalt plant company.

I head up the Engineering and Environmental Unit.

Their are a large number of projects that go on at PHI we usually pick up one or two a year along with our other projects.

I may have been personal, but you personally stated incorrectly, the asphalt was laid on a concrete slab. That makes a huge difference in considering any answer to the problem. Either you did not know what cement stabilized base is, or you did not read and understand the information that was given. You then stated "asphalt and concrete don't get along," which resulted in your solution "You best bet remove the asphalt and concrete, then start from scratch." Cement stabilized base is intended as a base for asphalt, and is therefore "a proper aggregate base."

I would apologize, but I find it infuriating that someone speaks with authority without understanding the facts in evidence. Then after being called out on it, you refuse to accept it by explaining what this forum is about.

I don't know 18 years working in construction, I've seen enough asphalt overlays to know they really don't work that well. I do know what cement stabilized base is it's basically #57, water, and cement run through a pug-mill. Back here in PA we call it open-graded concrete or porous concrete. Its not used very often because of the fact it's not flexible for highway use we have had tons of failures because of it. The FAA projects I was on we started off with P209 and worked our way up. It's just not that common here in PA.

I would also like to point out the forum isn't really so much about the base but his concern with the asphalt mix that's being put down. From his description it seems he has an elevation restrict also he is only a loud two inches of asphalt. So in order to have more asphalt on the ground, milling or excavation will be required to allow additional lifts.

There is no need to apologize we all make mistakes.

PS if you would like to join CR is free.

Have a nice day

Oregoon, good call on suggesting the use of the Ultra High Performance Concrete, so long as the Contractor can actually stabilize the existing concrete stabilized base. First thing is to to complete a comprehensive pavement coring program and have the cores measured and analyzed in the materials lab. May even require a Petrographic Analysis of several or more concrete core samples.

There may be surprises in store for all after they receive the laboratory test report. It might so happen that there is insufficient concrete substrate available for the intended load, or that it has insufficient compressive strength or even too flexural sensitive.

May also have to conduct several load tests along the runway once the milling of the existing asphalt has been completed.

I wonder if anyone has yet done any soil borings along the runway to determine the seasonal high groundwater levels as well as the in-situ soil profile? The laboratory test report of those borings may ultimately steer the course of the entire pavement issue and it's subbase and foundation requirements beyond what has been discussed here so far.

You get a GA from me re the Ultra High suggestion!

Bakerjohn, sorry I mistook you for an Engineer I use to deal with in a certain Philly office! Opppsss!!!

Cheery -scented asphalt? That 's a new one on me! *LOL* Too bad the complainers didn't like it....Well, unfortunately there is always some sort of NIMBY in everyone's backyard!!!!

No problem CaptMoosie, there are a whole lot of John Baker(s) is this area it's a fairly common name. Where I live just North of Philly in a little suburb there are six of us only my dad's a relation the other for I have no idea.

Yeh the Cherry scenting was horrible. It was a mixture of cherry cough syrup and asphalt not a good combo. It made me sick to my stomach.

But one good thing did come out of it no more complaints from the neighbors.

Bakerjohn,

So you're up north of Philly eh? My 19 Y.O. stepson attends the Wood Services school up in Langhorne, PA. He's moderately Autistic. They do a fantastic job with those kids preparing them for life...

I don't get down to Philly much, but when we do venture there We always have to make a stop in South Philly for a REAL Philly Cheese steak! Can' get any better than that! Yummmers! Not great for the waistline either, but you only live once I say. *LOL* And truth be told, if my lovely wife wasn't with me I'd buy two of them.....eat one then, and bring the other one home with me! hahahahha

Ahhh I can't even imagine the smell of Cherry cough medicine mixed with asphalt....must had made peeps puke their brains out for sure! ***BILL THE CAT ACCKKK ACCCKKK***

Now you made me hungry, looks like I'll be heading to the Italian Market for lunch. I'll have one dripping with onions and cheese whiz for you Captmoosie. I'll have to keep it hidden from my wife, she has me on this reduced cholesterol and no salt diet, because of my issues last Christmas.

By the way how close is Red Hook to West Point. My Uncle runs the MRI/CAT/X-Ray department at the hospital there? We visit twice a year and I like to explore.

Bakerjohn, that cheesesteak sound too good to be true! Please have two of them for me! Sorry to hear about your health problems. I have them too (Diabetes) and I must loose some more weight...well actually. a lot of weight. Doesn't help if my wife cooks like a gourmet chief or be one of those cooking stars on a Food Network show! LOL

I'd say that West Point is about 65-to-70 miles or so south of us along the Hudson River......I've never really clocked it with the odometer before....I may have to check Map Quest to get the highway mileage to be sure. Little old Village of Red Hook is directly across the Hudson River from Kingston NY (NYS Thruway Exit 19). Thank God the Kingston-Rhinecliff Bridge is right here between us for easy access to our side of the river. I'd have to say that West Point is one of my favorite places to visit, although my wife isn't too keen on visiting there often.....typ wife thing and the military...go figure, even if she's a USMC brat!

I actually live about 1 mile away from the historic "Rhinebeck Aerodrome", which is pretty kewl. I get to see all of the old time WWI replicas and 1920's Barnstormers flying all over our skyes from mid-June to October. We also have the Dutchess County Fair Grounds here 3 miles south of me in the Village of Rhinebeck. Every weekend there's something going on there, from flae markets to Antique car shows and Muscle car/street rod auto shows to The sheep & woool Festival in October (my wife's favorite because of all the Border Collies present.....we have 5 Border Collies here at home + a Welsh Pembrooke Corgi.....ut no are actually working/herding for a living, although they could do so if we allowed them to. They're extremely smart dogs, and as my Wife and I say, they're "Smarter than the average Grad Student!" *LMAO*)

If you send me your address I'll FedEx one to you.

I had a mild heart attack just before Thanksgiving at 39. Doctor said I had to reduce my stress level, and watch my diet. My family has a history of heart disease so he feels that is another issue which we can't control. But anyway.

West Points really neat. My wife, daughter, and I spend a long weekend at a time up there with my uncle. We ride bikes, and hike. If we're there during school we watch them at the parade ground.

Red Hook sounds neat too my wife and I love going to historic locations and antique shops.

We just spent a week in Williamsburg VA in March. It was nice for the kid but it's getting really touristy. Same thing with Gettysburg, PA.

We have two yellow labs they're smart enough to play dumb. The youngest of the two is a pretty good hunting dog. He has a lot of good instincts, but I'm still working on the retrieving. He has a tendency half way through the hunt that if his hungry to sit down and chew on the bird or rabbit instead of retrieving it. Then I take home for my wife a slimy carcass.

Bakerjohn:

Can you send that cheesesteak by FedEx airmail----I'll be waiting on this end with an oversized butterfly net to catch it! Yummmers....my tummy is growling just thinking of it!

Sorry to hear about the heart attack! Yes, you've got to curb the stress, salt and bad fatty stuff in your diet as well as get some exercise. That's what my doc's are having me do currently as my Maternal Grandfather passed away at age 52 (when I was 2 y.o) from a massive heart attack....so it runs in my family too. I sure doesn't help that I'm still smoking and I know that I should quit (I'll be 52 in June), but it's damn difficult when the Mrs. Moosie smokes too, and she should know better than any of us 'cause she's a RN. So far my cholesterol and blood pressure is withing normal limits as I follow a strict diet of very lean high protein/low carb + lots of fruits and veggies.

If you go back to West Point, try to do so when they have home games (of any sport), as the tickets are always available (except Army-Navy football game). Yeah, it's very cool to watch the Cadets on the parade ground every Sunday....ultimate precision!

Sounds l;like our little valley here would be good spot to visit for you and your wife! We have tons of historic sites and many many antique shops! Down in Hyde Park, there's the FDR Library and the Vanderbilt Mansion; further up (north) the road in Strasbourg and Rhinebeck there's a whole handful of mansion museums , and north of us there a few more mansions and an art museum....in the Village of Rhinebeck there's a lot of shops of all types, with antiques being the brunt of them. That village is one hell of a tourist trap come summer and fall, so i suggest that you do not visit on a weekend.......we stay away from that downtown and our own during the T-season, especially when we have the Apple Blossom Festival! Anyhow, you'd have a lot of fun just searching the antique shops alone if that's what you're into. Actually, both sides of the river have lots to offer, including small many wine vineyards (these are a lot of fun....sampling the wine & eating cheese & crackers).

Ahhhhh Colonial Williamsburg (and Busch Gardens) is a favorite of Pat's and mine!!! That's where we went for our Honeymoon back in 2002. Both our 2nd marriage) We fell in love with the area and vowed that when we retire (or sooner) we'd relocate there and build a house!

Agreed with Gettysburg getting too touristy. Last time there I didn't enjoy it as much......ditto with Lancaster County, but I still have some favorite haunts there like the Strasbourg Railroad and museum + the toy train museum down the road.....love visiting the shops in that area for Amish built stuff! Then there's Hersey! I can't get enough of the Hersey Park and the roller coasters! Been a while since I've been there...2000? I was there last with my kids and current wife before we got married on our return from my parents' condo in North Myrtle Beach SC. We haven't been back since. I used to go to that area every summer with my X and the kids before the divorce since X's sister and her hubby lived south of Philly along US 1...forgot the name of the village, but it's renowned for its mushrooms and only a few miles northwest of Wilmington DE.......they later moved west pretty close to Gettysburg, but never been to the newer place. I think the village name was Avondale PA......was south of Chadd's Ford and the Longwood Gardens (a favorite stop).

My goofy dogs would be useless hunting...they'd try to herd whatever I shot or was going to shoot. I really don't think they're even try to eat a rabbit or game bird....someday I'll have to give it a try and see how they react (especially to the rifle or shotgun blast).....probably would freak them right out! Hmmm that reminds me that I haven't had a decent Pheasant or Quail in a while........