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Anonymous Poster

Does Geothermal Really Pay?

05/13/2010 10:18 AM

I am looking at installing a geothermal systems with climate master heat pumps. This install will be in a 101 unit apartment complex. The apartment is currently heated by a centeral natural gas boiler with radiant heat, the apartments are cooled by though the wall a/c. We have not done a test on the wells for temps yet but will happens soon.

For calcs sake I used Enter Water Temp of 50 degrees. There are two general size I need for the project a TSH09 and TSH12.

The TSH09 has a kW of .44 for cooling and .70 for Heating. The project is in wisconsin and used 6 months heating and 6 months cooling. 4380 hours of cooling and 4380 hours of heating. so if the heat pump ran continus it would take 1927.20kW for cooling and 3066kW for heating. I would assume it would not run all the time I GUESS 60% so at 60% of the time the usage would be 1156.32kW of cooling and 1829.60kW of heating for a total of 2995.95kW at a of cost .109750 kWh so $328.80 per year or $27.40 a month

The TSH12 has a kW of .57 for cooling and .93 for Heating. The project is in wisconsin and used 6 months heating and 6 months cooling. 4380 hours of cooling and 4380 hours of heating. so if the heat pump ran continus it would take 2491.6kW for cooling and 4073.4kW for heating. I would assume it would not run all the time I GUESS 60% so at 60% of the time the usage would be 1497.962kW of cooling and 2444.4kW of heating for a total of 3942kW at a of cost .109750 kWh so $432.63 per year or $35.06 a month.

I am going to be replacing the a/c so if figured I shoudl be able to recouple the cost of the a/c that are running during the summer. however the data does not show a increase starting in july. Does the data look correct to other folks out there?

daysKWHBilleddays avgKWH avgBilled avg
Jan2524156202174.7930.78049190.487826.52182927
Feb2643159602339.6532.62963197.03728.8845679
March2316132411966.6927.90361159.530123.69506024
April2358129601928.2628.7561158.048823.51536585
June2669161352563.230.67816185.459829.46206897
July2435193183005.9729.33735232.74736.21650602
Aug2794271934053.3831.39326305.539345.54359551
Sept2460201563111.9128.60465234.372136.185
Oct2575187472903.0329.94186217.988433.75616279
Nov2646176212526.230.76744204.895329.3744186
Dec2455160222313.3228.54651186.302326.89906977

Here is the usage data for the gas boiler, Upabove is no calc for common area, but are included in the numbers below. There is also a gas hot water heater on the same meter.

THERMSDeg DayCost P/TCost
Mar 10 0925077820.860469$2,157.20
Apr 8 0918074670.440947$796.79
May 12 0910121660.413524$418.49
Jun 10 09633210.438260$277.42
Jul 10 09527160.457588$241.15
Aug 11 09486630.430469$209.21
Sep 9 098061660.387753$312.53
Oct 08 0918705920.509989$953.68
Nov 60 0923444820.733976$1,720.44
Dec 08 09428516270.778692$3,336.70
Jan 11 10324416840.833471$2,703.78
Feb 08 10300611830.829600$2,493.78
$15,621.15

IS the NOT a good application for Geothermal.

Clancy

clancy@pspm.net

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Anonymous Poster
#3

Re: Does Geothermal Really Pay?

05/17/2010 5:08 PM

Do you have building simulation software that will model it?

I'm not sure which software would do geothermal. Ask the heat pump sales people if they can model the savings for you.

If you're buying that many of them, they should be willing to help.

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Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: Does Geothermal Really Pay?

05/19/2010 12:59 PM

There is a product called the Building monitor that remotely monitors all apartments temperatures and sets limits on the amount of heat and cooling that is sent from ac and boilers. By simply setting limits ourbuilding saved nearly 40 % on our heating costs last year. We didn't freeze them out but we were able to see who was cranking the heat and leaving the windows open. Also, there is an option to bill tenets for their heat usage from the boiler and ac.

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#5

Re: Does Geothermal Really Pay?

05/20/2010 3:41 PM

I would think so in your case due to the mere fact that on average you are looking at
typically only three months of cooling using your A/c right now and gas furnace or
even heating oil(60 percent) well if you are using the heat pump which would replace
both of these and would reduce your KWH demand and/or BTU efficiency which would
decrease your overall energy demand at least 30 percent which would using a sinking
fund approach would pay for itself in the 2o year life cycle.

Coversion To Heat Pump!

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Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: Does Geothermal Really Pay?

05/23/2010 10:56 PM

This link might help you analyze it. I haven't used this software, but you can look it over and see if you think it would help. It's free, and was recommended on CR4 in a thread about building energy simulation software.

http://www.retscreen.net/ang/home.php

Click on the a couple of the intro videos, watch them, and see if it looks worth more investigation. Watch the heating and cooling video (over an hour), etc. I'll bet it will do the job, but maybe someone else on this forum has experience that can tell you if it will do the analysis or not.

Trane has a geothermal application manual. It might be available on the Trane website.

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Good Answers: 10
#7

Re: Does Geothermal Really Pay?

06/03/2010 7:27 PM

I thought that GEOTHERMAL was using the earth to heat your structure. Like a hot spring or something. Am I missing something?

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