Bladeless Wind Turbine

Do you know what the shaft rating is for a 12MPH wind?

Info is a little short. The patent: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,695,242.PN.&OS=PN/7,695,242&RS=PN/7,695,242

And here's another article on it:

http://www.physorg.com/news192426996.html

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't think this will perform well at all. It is a good exercise for the reader to figure out why not.

Casual observation of the inlet and outlet areas suggest that not enough energy can enter the system to perform real work, unless the velocity of the wind is very high.

That's one of the key problems. And then, when the wind speed is high, they propose to throttle it....

One of the links led to a thread in which one person said that a device like this on an electric car could generate enough energy to run the car! We can anticipate much of this sort of thinking.

Maybe we should envy the promoters for devising a line of patter that will appeal to gullible investors. I guess that "green" thinking is sometimes more about the color of money than the color of the earth.

On top of that, Tesla is a popular buzz-name. He discovered lots of stuff, most of which did not enlarge motive power all that much (Steinmetz did more). But God was he ever flashy!--and that beguiles people to this day.

Doesn't the Tesla Turbine depending on the viscosity of the working fluid? That being the case, how much energy can this system harness from the wind since air has extremely low viscosity?

I'd be supprised if they can actually get the thing to turn in a light wind, much less get 10kW from it.

What's wrong with blades?

--------------------------------------SNIP---------------------------------------
Abstract

A turbine includes a stack of substantially parallel disks, the rotation of which causes rotation of a shaft. The disks are separated by peripheral spacers, each peripheral spacer having the shape of an airfoil. Each peripheral spacer defines a chord which is angled radially inward, towards the axis of rotation of the disk. The peripheral spacers are located only in the vicinity of the periphery of the disk. Air, or other fluid, entering the turbine engages the airfoil shaped peripheral spacers, and the flow of air generates lift, and associated drag, causing the energy of the fluid to be more efficiently converted into mechanical, and ultimately, electrical power. The turbine is especially useful in harnessing wind energy for the generation of electric power.

--------------------------------------SNIP--------------------------------------

That sounds like a lot of blades to me: just that they're used as spacers for the disks.

I guess my real question was: "Why try to develop a bladeless turbine when it is so obvious that turbines with blades work so much better?"

But thanks for the reply

From the linked article

Solar Aero's current example is an unassuming trailer-mounted unit, but a unit the size of the one pictured (see website) "should be capable of 10kW output with no problem," according to the inventor.

From aero's website

the turbine is expected to deliver power at a cost comparable to coal-fired power plants.

and straight after that

Production licenses are available worldwide.

I think that says it all (talk about putting the cart before the horse). Aero is going to be rather disappointed when they actually bother to test their prototypes and they don't meet anywhere near the expected claims. There are very good reasons why many of Tesla's "inventions" never went into production (see previous discussions on CR4 regarding Tesla's disc engine patent and designs).

I couldn't find any further information on the other projects they are apparently working on, and they spend more time talking about tax benefits for grants and donations and IRS non-profit status than they do about any actual research.

Potential investors beware.

Jack - Currently Project managing a wind farm power station.

Yup, looks like a dud at best. A scam at worst.

One of the issues with wind turbines is that in places where the wind blows well and consistently, like west Texas, there are also plenty of other stuff in the air, dirt, dust, sand. In Texas this means that wind turbine blade life is reduced due to erosion.

In this gizmo, the result would be pluggage. In places like Germany and Iowa, the pluggage would be insects and plant matter.

A key indicator that this is unlikely to meet expectations is their claim that the unit can be mounted close to the ground for easy maintenance, where there is a lot of turbulance and lower wind velocity...

I have a design for a Tesla turbine made from a recycled hard drive (originally from Instructables) if anyone is interested....

A totally irresponsible offer with zero supporting data. These guys are 1) looking for a sucker to buy one or to buy the concept 2) fishing for funding for something they apparently know nothing about. Whenever a wind turbine is offered without supporting third party tests (preferably NREL or equivalent) there is something fishy involved.

This turbine design has lots of small gaps in it that will soon become plugged by insects, leaves, and other debris. Of course, the screen in front may keep these things from getting into the turbine, but then the screen will get clogged soon.... There's a hole in the bucket, Dear Liza. Just another defeater for this dopey concept.

Have you ever stood in front of a 10kW backward curve fan? I have built a few and there is more chance of walking a camel through the eye of a needle than seeing 10kW off that "turbine".

For years I have made roof venting turbines and it urks me when people claim all sorts of untested abilities from poorly designed contraptions. Manufacturers of some Whirlybird type extractors claim air removal volumes that exceed powered ducted fans by 3 to 1 ......just using wind and heatstack. This "Tesla" claim is just as ludicrous.

Did you read on ecogeek about the one fool who wanted to place it on top of a car and capture more power!

Mounting this unit on an automobile makes little practical sense to me.

What do you do with the excess power you generate while driving into a headwind, for instance?

A smarter idea and a sure-fire money-maker would be to install them on trains. Some of these coal-trains are miles long, which could be generating a lot of MW's mile after mile, and you simply transfer all of that power that the train isn't using to self-propel, down to the rails for transmission throughout the entire continent! EV cars wouldn't have to worry about charging stations anymore as they could simply pull over by the tracks and clamp on to the rail for a quick refueling!

Tesla's genius continues to impress!

Are these folks looking for investors? Talk about a ground-floor opportunity.

Tell me please - where do you think the power to drive the train (or car) coming from? The good tooth fairy possibly?

No, not the Tooth Fairy, good or bad. The Tooth Fairy's body is very light, so the wings do not generate enough wind thrust to power a turbine efficiently. Also, many believe the Tooth Fairy is a myth; a subject of considerable debate.

You would need something more like a giant pterodactyl (that do exist, and there's bones and stuff lying around to prove it!) which has a very large brachiopatagia to get the type of motive force needed to drive a turbine, and you'd need to amp up the bpm's to an order akin to the hummingbird's to obtain the same results that simply mounting the turbines on the sides and top of a train will generate.

You're making this more complicated by trying to cheat a little more out of the system by employing fairies and such.

You'd probably think that it'd be a good idea to mount wind turbines ahead of a passing train too, so one could capture all of that wind as it sped by; but then you'd need some sort of robot thingy to pick the wind generator up after the train passes and move it automatically back to the front of the train again. Again, not much bang for the buck, and the Railroad Workers Union would probably pitch a fit over the use of anything robotic. Remember what a stink it was when they did away with the caboose and the guy that got to sit in it to make sure the front of the train was always in front of him? Now he gets to ride in the front to make sure the back of the train is behind him.

There was this guy named Betz.......and the area is? so the maximum power is?

Yeah 10kw - at what Mk 1?

It definitely looks like a ground floor investing oppurtunity---- it will take your investment and dash it to the ground!!

But I have this perpetual motion generator that generates power from the annhilation of the dark matter..... lol and all you have to do is send your deposit to my Nigerian bank account

Soy Cowboy

Hey! İ have a patent on that! Please supply an address so İ can properly bill you for the use.

LOL! Even in a steady 100 mph wind, that contraption wouldn't generate enough torque to pull a setting hen off the nest. Maybe if you found a mountain valley with high wind velocities due to a venturi effect, built a huge duct opening in it, necked it down to provide significant velocity (Ek = 1/2 MV2) you might be able to get some useful work out of the turbine. Air isn't very dense, so you would need a lot of air. If the prototype had a 12' x 12' intake duct that narrowed to a venturi to feed a 24" turbine, and the turbine were mounted horizontally so as to allow the duct to rotate and track the wind, I'd be interested to learn more.

"Maybe if you found a mountain valley with high wind velocities due to a venturi effect, built a huge duct opening in it, necked it down to provide significant velocity (Ek = 1/2 MV2) you might be able to get some useful work out of the turbine"