Liquid Head Gaskets - Do They Work?

It started last week. Overheated. The idea is to keep it. Only it is very difficult to deal with the gaskets,because under the hood it is full, full and the engine is transversal. I guess it will be the most difficult side as Murphy's Law says. What should be a reasonable time frame for repair? Thank you.

if it has started by overheating , means most chances are , your head might be cracked and leaked , it might not be the gasket , it may be the head it self , so think care fully .

now you have to think twice before you take further steps .

You would have to refer to someone local to quote the repair.

But it sounds like a TPA sort of job and you will be charged accordingly.

I treated myself to quote. The gaskets seem very expensive. Is it normal that there are 3 layers in the gasket. Like 3 different sheets on top of each other. This is the first time I see this. Thanks

Alumiseal (disclaimer) has worked for me in the past. Depends where and what has failed.

It's cheap and if it doesn't work, it won't hurt anything.

The sealent you put into radiators is called "K seal"

Has the oil changed colour ? ie white and creamy ?

Its emulsified,

the reason it does it when engine is still the water is under presure for quite a long time while engine cools down, and as there is no presure in the cylinders the water can now seep into the cylinders

Water and oil nicely separated, no foam, no mix. Car was sitting here for a while - now 14 days already. Thanks

if the water is not mixing with oil means there are more chances for cracked head .

i am diesel engineer , dealing this kind of problems very often .

ajit

If you have water entering the cylinder(s), the engine would hydro-lock, bending connecting rods, breaking pistons, blowing out the head gasket(s). And that's if you can get the engine to turn over one revolution

Hi All,

I really appreciate your help.

After the answer of Tobu I decided to take a closer look. The car didn't start anymore, was blocked like it had no power enough. I have put it over the hole and tapped the oil off. While the car was a little upward, I also saw the exhaust muffler dripping at the lowest point. Seems not tight anymore. I found my gallon of oil back, but first 2 gallon water came out of the oil pan.

It was a nice Sunday afternoon and I have taken the heads off. Just finished. In the cylinders was also water sitting. Dried it out and WD40'd everything. Tomorrow I will have a close look at the parts I removed.

Till now the job was very easy. The two heads have top valves and hydraulic pushers from the middle (V6). I always worry when I have to repair and see timing devices, like chains or belts.

No, piece of cake thusfar.

I will buy a set of head gaskets, a thermostat, 6 spark plugs, oil filter and hope that will do the job. The most difficult was to find to disconnect all the different plugs and connectors.

I just need to know how much torque I need to give and the rank of the 8 head bolts to tighten. Is cleaning the surfaces with a block and sandpaper ok? Thanks for the help again

If the engine overheated it's possible that the head is warped. Use a good metal straight edge and check for head flatness over several directions. If you find that their is warpage the head will have to be milled flat. If much of the head has to be milled off you might be better off buying a new head because the intake ports of the head and manifold won't mate properly and the cylinder compression will increase due to the decreased head volume.

I forgot to say: I bought the car second hand and it appears that someone did a liquid seal treatment, before selling it to me. All kind of fill is there at places where it should be. Very salty taste.

Thank you Tobu. The head gasket are completely metallic, 3 layers with different geometry. Never saw this before. GA

head gaskets often have folding spring metal gasket grommets around the cylinders and all passages through the head with a fiber reinforced tough gasket material everywhere else. They used to use a varnish when gaskets were installed, but now they use high temp silicone in addition to the above gaskets with grommets and holes etc.

Areas with low pressure, like the oil pan and valve covers now use silicone sealant that hardens in place. Works quite well,

That is how I know them too. But these are like 3 flat layers (connected) of stainless steel sheet metal, with just a little punch around the cylinders. (Head gasket) Thanks

Seeing as this engine has overheated, you may be looking at more than a blown head gasket. Pull the plugs and see if there is water on any. Then do a compression test on all the cylinders. Liquid head-gasket sealer in my experience only works on heads and gaskets that are basically in good condition but have a slight seepage. The sealer will not close cracks, warped heads or head gaskets that are damaged. There is no short cut to solving your problem. And if you have water in the oil, you can kiss your bearing good by.

What particular bearing(s)?

all bearings that get treated with water are in danger of being damaged. That would be you mains, journal and may be the cam shaft. Water droplets in the oil turns to steam under engine loads and removed any oil film exposing metal to metal contact. Actually any part of the engine that needs oil lubrication is in danger of damage if there is water in the oil.

Water standing in the cylinders as documented in previous posts.

What type of car and which engine? Could be a leaking intake gasket and not a head gasket! GM v6's are known for intake gasket leaks which can get into the oil!

3.3 liter V6. The mid section was not very tight when I loosened it up. I will check the gaskets tomorrow to see if I can figure out the leak. What you say makes sense. The gasket of the mid section is something strange. On the other hand, the level of water in the cylinders was lower. When filling up the radiator always leveled to the same level.

There are only two types of GM V6's, those that are leaking and those that are about to leak! I have a 3.1 V6 with 60,000 miles and have owned it since new. I have already replaced leaking intake manifold gaskets twice and I see at least two or more every week that have this issue!

wow, any suggestions? Maybe leave a drain between the 2 heads? What is the torque for the heads? The gaskets are they all triple tin sheet metal? Thanks

Thanks for the warning. I'll dump my 2.8L Chevy V6 before I get caught. I only have 310,000 miles on it, so it is still too early I guess.

That is very important, you MUST find the reason for the leak before proceeding.

I am shocked that you found water in more than one cylinder.

Also, I have the impression (maybe wrongly) that you experienced "hydraulic lock" in one of your posts, this can damage connecting rods and bearings.

You need to check carefully the top of the block(s) with a straight edge and a ruler.

Also the cylinder heads as well, in fact it might be a good idea (assuming its only a gasket) to have the head(s) lightly skimmed at an engineering shop......just to be sure.

Is it an engine that you can get cheap from a junkyard in a reasonable condition?

All the cylinders had quite some water. After the engine ran hot, I tried to localize the water leak, but could not find one. The water disappeared to the engine and later I found out it was in the engine and in the oil pan. The engine has not been cranked during these tests, but it took some days. The heads are chrysler V6 - 3.3 liter. How are my chances to have cracks?Anyway tomorrow after inspection I'll know more. Thanks GA

please do not try any quick fix , head gasket is not the ordinary gasket , its very special gasket with some special properties , try to get it fix properly , do not waste time and money using quick fixes , same time you are damaging the engine while you are running engine with water mix oil , it might cause the serious damage to the engine .

ajit

Too late now, but I used Bardal's coolant leak repair last year & it worked great. They have several differnt products. The usual one iz for radiator leaks and wont work for leaks in the engine. The 2 that are for head gasket leaks and cracks in the castings are more expensive. The most expensive ( 30$ ) is used with the coolant in the system and I suppoze iz easier to use. I picked to 10$ version that requires you to drain and flush all the coolant out and then go thru a proceedure that takes over an hour. According to the instructionz, it will fill in pretty good size gaps and cracks.

If it turns out that you have a warped head and it leaks after you get it back together, you could try this stuff.

It is very possible that you have a warped head (s). This can occur from overheating. The proper fix is to have the head surfaces checked for flatness and machined if within specification. Big expensive work, so you better LOVE the car.

Okay here we have a Chrysler 3.3 OHV cast iron block with cast aluminium head V6. The intake manifold is either cast aluminium or reinforced plastic.

Which is yours a plastic intake or aluminium?

What came first chicken or egg is a past time for some...

There is always the condition where a leak caused the coolant to diminish and then the overheating occurs or vice versa. But in your case the previous operator has that information

An Aluminium heat to cast iron block can even under the best conditions leak and blow the head or intake gaskets or more likely the heads are cracked and if a plastic intake manifold??

The intake manifold is aluminium. The top cover is plastic

THE NEXT PHASE:

I took everything apart and today I cleaned and inspected the cylinder heads.

I ordered the gaskets and some other stuff in the US because everything has to be flown in.

The heads have a cast number:

04694688AA

I also see 11.A on it - The Chrysler Logo - and two circles with 9/0 in it and H/2. The heads have pushers and pivoters (? balances) that command the valves on top in the cylinders (OHV?). I will need to find 2 heads, if possible complete with valves, so that I only need to install them. Are these sets available or do I need to build everything over? And fix the valves and stems? I will ship from Florida (Ft Lauderdale Area) to The Bahamas. Can some one guide me in this? Thanks Van.

nice sites. GA. and thanks. Van

Do not, under any circumstances, use any silicone based gasket adhesives to reassemble this engine. Permatex makes a non-silicone based gasket adhesive (Form-a-gasket 2 I believe it is called.) that is ideal for this. Silicone based adhesives will release silicon into the exhaust stream which will poison the catalyst in your O2 sensors. You will be replacing O2 sensors like mad from there on out.

I would strongly suggest that you should obtain a can of dye penetrant and it's developer and check the cylinder walls and the heads for cracks that might not be visible to the naked eye but may open up under heat and pressure. It should be available at a welder's supply. But the stuff is pretty messy to clean up afterwards.

The block is cast iron...

The motor block is also aluminium.

It's not a 3.3 then maybe a 2.7 or a 3.5...

On the big black plastic intake box it is printed big:

3.3LV6

the head is a chrysler 04594688AA AB 11.A 9/0 H/2 Is that hole supposed to be there? Should I make a photo? Thanks

You can use dye penetrant on any metal, you cannot use magneflux on aluminum but dye pen should be fine.

I found this site for heads:

What is the pcv hole at the end?

Please copy and paste:

http://flitelineenginesupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=216 Can I use this? What do I need to adjust here? The valves are in it? What about the shaft on top? Thanks for the help. Van

PCV = positive crankcase ventilation; if you have a 3.3 engine then yes you can use it.

Go to the Mopar One link I gave and input the VIN# to be sure. Check here for 3.5L engine info

Thanks BWIRE - on the Napa site price list I see $319 - core $156 - does core mean I have to bring the old ones? How much they actually charge? Tried to call but the shop was closed already. Will check Mopar now.

yep, they'll charge you the full price and then refund the difference when you bring the old one in as a return.

Also with import? And a head full of cracks? The transportation and custom costs 2 way are a kill. I need to fly that in. Mopar One doesn't talk about a core.

Is that a recycling Law thing like batteries and tyres? I haven't seen any shops near Fort Lauderdale - Boca Raton area. I need to search some more. Thank you.

No it's not a law, but what they do is ship them all back to the remanufacturing facility and they'll rebuilt the ones they can and sell the rest for scrap aluminum to offset the cost and ensure they have a steady supply of heads to rebuild. you aren't buying a new head I'd imagine, but a rebuilt one. Mopar sells new, not rebuilt.

The Mopar price is about $130.00. But it is not clear if the valves are in it. They refer to a list in their catalog and all the parts are on a diagram. A bit confusing. How are they usually sold in the US?

I can't say for sure, but generally when you buy a rebuilt head it comes complete with valves, valve guides, rocker arms etc. I've never bought a new one so I can't say for sure if you are buying just the casting or the assembly.

I will call tomorrow. Your help is greatly appreciated. For me the US car and parts market is totally new. I worked on European and Japanese cars but skipped two generations. Now, because of the vicinity of Florida, I bought my first American Transportation, turning out to be a lemon full of former liquid gasket experiments. The thermostat was removed and the interior heater bypassed. I should have known better. Though I want to repair this car as good as possible. A plus is that the parts are affordable and I can do the work. I went here in the local NAPA shop (there is one) but no gaskets, bolts, or cylinder heads available. They told me that had good "blue" liquid repair chemicals. I guess that is how the Bahamas repairs.

The item is listed at Mopar One as "Cylinder head & Valves"

The NAPA head is remanufacturered so they have a turn in core charge.

Mopar One is a "new" head no core required.

I'll try to get it shipped to a US exporter in Florida. Thanks for the help.

The VIN is only for when I call them. But it is a 3.3L6V. Do the heads come with the valves in? I need to build over the rocker shaft and use the same pushers? Is there any adjustment to do? I see no valve clearance adjustments. Is that hydraulic? Can I just install the new heads?

The hydraulic lifters should be pre charged with oil, other that that they are self adjusting. When the engine first starts, it may have a lot of lifter noise, but should disappear quickly.

Thank you Bob, I really appreciate your help. Today I have been calling around for 2 heads after I checked the internet. I tried Mopar One, which looked great with $139.00 per head. I ordered, but had to cancel after they informed that the price was about $100.00 per piece more. For bare heads. Napa seemed tempting too with $319 and about $100.00 return for the core. The problem was that at the end, to build everything over. I ended again with $800-$900 for the two sets. Then I found Flite service in Arizona, and I think I have a fine deal there. They advertised one head, with valves for $112.00. The people were very helpful and didn't ask for a core. Send to Fort Lauderdale. it will have cost me $300.00 for both. I count also 70-80% shipping and taxes to Grand Bahama, but feel pretty good with this deal. Mopar didn't have assembled ones and Napa works with a guy who does the job for them. I expect everything next week and will keep you all posted. Thanks a lot for the help. D will do the assembly here.

I don't want to rain on the parade but I will $112 seems to good to be true...

Junk yards depend on turn over.

Basically it depends on the junk yard.If they sell a LOT of parts then prices are cheap.I have bought a head for as low as 100 bucks only to find the block was also busted.((and the radiator(sent out for repair and returned with a shiny new black paint job)totally plugged))And then,if you can get a short block from a totaled vehicle for $350-400.would also be a good option.

Joe in Texas

Joe, check Flite service... this is new stuff. To be continued.

Today the two ordered heads arrived. I am very satisfied. Valves are and springs are in place and they withstood the liquid leak test. One head had a tread insert in one spark plug hole. I'll tell more when I have the engine to run.