97 Cavalier Stalls While Driving in the Rain

First thing that comes to mind is old, cracked spark plug wires or distributor cap.

I know you sprayed water in there, but it still sounds like that is the issue to me. Could they have missed something? Also, the engine isn't under load at that point and if you start driving it and it stalls down the road, then you are on the right track because the water is getting into something!

Water is a good agent for nixing electrical function in a car.

One simple test you can do is at night when it is dark, with the car cool (not warmed up) spritz water into the engine compartment in as fine a spray as you can with a spray bottle. If the wires are the issue you will see blue arcing in the darkness. If the distributor cap is the issue, water on it may cause the engine to misfire, but may not if just idling.

Finally, if the spark plug wires are more than 50,000 miles old and have not been replaced, it may be a good idea to just replace them and the cap anyway. Chances are that is the problem.

If not, you may have a bad connector under the hood or the fuel injector connections might be getting wet. Spritzing water can be a good tool for isolating the offending bugger. Just go slow and be methodical. Also, verify your findings so that you are not being fooled by what appears to be the cause, but something else is the root cause

Hi brum10,

I have a Chevy S-10 4X4 that had a similar problem. I had a crack on the underside (very difficult to see without removing the cap) of the high tension (to coil) port on the distributor cap.

Like you, I also took it in to a mechanic and they checked fuel, checked for error codes (there were none), checked ignition wiring and found nothing.

I also tried the water test with a hose and could not get the engine to die.

It would have to be raining fairly well for it to die.

After getting stuck for what seemed like the umpteenth time I found the crack after getting towed home and removing the cap my self. Sure enough I found a very small hairline crack.

I put the cap back on and sprayed water from underneath and the engine died.

I changed the plugs, cap and wires and she runs great and has not quit in the rain since replacing the parts.

I don't know if this comes close to your problem but to me it sounds electrical in nature.

Good Luck!

How did you determine that those particular cyls are mis firing? Crank sensors have been found to do this. I would think the dealership should have found your problem. Whoever checked the vehicle ,if they used a scan tool, should have found a code in the computer's memory indicating which system is not working and may be causing your problem. Its important to know what engine you have in the car because that may tell us where the ignition coils are and if they could be possibly covered with a coating of salt dust and attracting the moisture to cause the loss of spark to certain cylinders. Let us know , Thanks

h

Just going by the wet weather clue

try spraying water on the exhaust system near the cat that will be the first box on the exhaust.

I suspect you have a Lamba or O2 oxygen sensor.

if this develops a fault it can cause the engine management to either waken or richen the mixture.

if you get the workshop to download codes this should confirm this.

and as other said how do you know cylinders 1&2

now i will try it spelt correctly

Just going by the wet weather clue

Try spraying water on the exhaust system near the cat that will be the first box on the exhaust.

I suspect you have a Lambda or O2 oxygen sensor Fault.

If this develops a fault it can cause the engine management to either weaken or richen the mixture.

if you get the workshop to download codes this should confirm this.

And as other said how do you know cylinders 1&2

Also as already hinted try looking inside distributer cap and see if there are any crack like marks inside the cap as a temp fix you can spray igniton sealer, if this cures problem then replace cap.

please report your findings thanks

thanks to all for the great troubleshooting suggestions and quick responses...
the engine is

2.4L SFI DOHC 4cyl

with ignition coil housing

plugs and boots have been replaced, so cant check the distributor or wiring...

I did try the spritzing of the engine in the dark prior to starting and did not find any sparking or arcing in the engine compartment..I tried misting the catalytic converter and o2 sensors...could only find the sensor following the converter, not the one before...but will keep looking...
one of the techs who did the most complete diagnostics was the one who told me that cylinders 1 & 2 were being leaned out by the computer, but didnt know where or why the command was originating.....a friend who works in electronics and car buff suggested it most likely could be the crankcase position sensor???

Start with the engine management unit and check all wires and connections for corrosion.

I've seen this happen before where the wires and the connectors were literally corroded away.

Don't know if this applies to your situation or not, but I had a 87 cav doing the same thing.It was a bad coil module.On this model they fire 2 cylinders at the time from each coil, only one is at TDC, so the coil only has 1 true output per coil module.If one goes out, it kills two cylinders.

Module was hard to see on mine,on back side of block near firewall.

See if 2 cylinders are misfiring when this happens.If so, there's your problem.

Here we go , as a follow up on the tech who informed you that cyl 1 & 2 are leaning out.

Its only speculation at this time,but , if you have a faulty injector for one of the other two cyls the oxygen sensor sees a rich mixture and through the ECM (computer) ultimately reduces the fuel from the injectors so much so that it leans them out and you kinda run out of fuel. The problem is to find why this is or appears to be affected by humidity. I don't know at this time where the connections from the injectors to the ECM are ,but they have to go through the firewall to the computer in the car. As I stated before it's only speculation but a distinct possibility. Sooner or later you are going to find that area that when made wet/moist and the engine will let you know when it begins to falter. Hang in there , and when you find that spot you will have done the tech's job for him.

h

thanks...another great idea...will keep trying..

Please check/replace the fuel tank cap- the inlet air v/v is marginal- moisture from rain is enough to block- fuel will not flow with vacuum in tank- pump will be dry & noisy- simply loosen cap when stalls to prove.

I had to give you a GA for that one, though usually cars of that age have the charcoal filter system and a tank cap that seals......

My thoughts are if the pump still makes a noise, nobody changed it!! Or, better said, did they change the wrong one? Some cars have two!!!! Whether this car has two pumps or not I cannot say, but its worth checking out....

If its only one pump and that has been replaced and the noise is the same, trace the noise (on a dry day!!) and fix that as a first!!!

I tend to feel that maybe the engine is not getting enough fuel and the HT reduction in the rain just finishes it off......

Best of luck......

By the way, modern mechanics are useless if the computer cannot tell them what to do......search for a Guy about to retire!!!! Or has already!!!

Hello Andy, I need to kinda clarify some things about the modern automobile (97 modern ?) A good tech will usually do a visual check vacuum hoses etc., first. There are so many electrical features in todays autos that it would take so much time to check every system for a fault or malfunction. A great deal of that time will be wasted if not for the scan tools available to the trained tech who knows how to use them. The so called computer is only another tool to isolate the system causing the problem. It doesn't tell you what part to replace only what system is giving the problem. It is an invaluable tool to the trained tech. And unless a mechanic who has retired or is about to retire has received training on the newer vehicles he/she is at a terrible disadvantage without the tools needed to diagnose todays vehicles. The days of the old pro putting his/her hand on the engine and telling the problem are long gone. There is a difference between a mechanic and a technician. No disrespect intended, but without a meter can anyone just looking at a part sealed in resin and tell if it is good? It's not a good thing taking your vehicle to a service facility paying hard earned money only to have the result ," Couldn't find anything" and thats why it so important to have a knowledgeable mechanic/tech who knows what he/she is doing check out the vehicle and even then the tech can go for a ride trying to find the problem. Sorry for the long winded blabber, appreciate the good thoughts all the guys put forth to help someone with a problem.

h

So why would anyone pay for no results?. From day 1 of self-propelled vehicles- there are experts in "that system" to fix faults. Yes- modern vehicles are controlled by electronics- so the old time spark plug/points/carby etc fettler is obsolete in this context- but as in all technologies there are always those whom are up to date by training as in statutory warranty requirements. Yes no one can tell by looking at a device whether it is good or bad- but this has always been the case in electronics repair of tv,s etc- the car mechanic has simply to embrace testing /replacement of faulty comps using sophisticated testing equipment relevant to case in question- this is why a general question on a forum can never be answered correctly- but us old guys love the interaction!. (And ALL my vehicles are pre injector-rubber timing belt-alloy/plastic radiators)-ie- they will last longer than any modern junk! And I fix it myself!.

I work part time (I am retired) for a small car sales room, picking up and delivering cars. Often the ones bought in for sale have problems, they are taken to the relevant car shop according to their make.

These shops are supported by their make VW or Audi or whatever, and have every tool (electronic and otherwise) known to Christendom for that make of car, I would say that in my experience, in 1 out of 4 cases they have to change more that 3 parts to finally get the fix, sometimes they never find it.....then they simply give up....

The OBD codes are only as good as the person who wrote the firmware for the car, for example:- Mercedes sometimes have 3 or more sensors (doing the same/similar job but mounted separately) all on the same OBD code and nowhere do they tell you which one or where each one is mounted. You have to follow wiring and get lucky!!!

I could write a bundle on this as I see it first hand almost daily, but would you believe me? unlikely I feel...Like the Audi A6 automatic for example, that can drive 300Kms and then the engine goes onto "get you home" mode.....after 1 year of looking and NO OBD codes, the car was sold, severly reduced, to someone who only drives a few KMs per week and no long journeys......

These are the failures that both the makers and the shops often want to keep quiet about.

Ask Toyota, they know ALL about their problems, but somehow COMPLETELY fail to fix them, until MILLIONS of cars are affected!!!!!

If the OBD was always fully and correctly implemented, all these car blogs would never be required, but as you probably well know, there are 1000's of such blogs helping people fix their cars!! I wonder why?

Also Toyota would never be in the position they are today if they had done that......sadly, there are some other makes around with similar problems too!!!!

Wait up!! I am sure we will see more on that score before long!!!!!

So don't try and tell me how good modern mechanics etc are please, that somehow fails to impress me.....

Have a great day anyway.....

Thanks for your input. Just because a person works for a dealership doesn't mean they are top notch. I have seen exactly what you refer to with some places who cannot get good techs and wind up with parts changers. Its a rare find when you can get someone who has a good work ethic and will stick to a problem until the cause is found. Most dealerships pay flat rate and cannot afford to have a "mechanic" spend a lot of time on a problem. This is not to the customer's advantage. You are absolutely correct with what you have stated and again it all comes down to the money. There are people who specialize in finding and correcting automotive problems and they are in business for themselves. They don't come cheap, but they are good. No dealership wants to pay for their service because they can't make any money on the repair. Keep up the good suggestions , I enjoy reading your comments, Thanks again.

h

I agree entirely with your comments. But very sadly....what are we coming to?

Check your wire harnesses and wires under your carriage. Look under your car fir wires that have missing insulation, the insulation has been worn off, dragging wires which can short out. The wires can short out in a rain or bump and cause the computer to stop the engine. That happened to me in a 2003 Jetta.

brum10,

When you say that the car runs OK for 5 miles than begins to miss, do you mean that this happens while the car is actually in motion, or that it stalls out while sitting at red lights, drive throughs, etc, after it has been driven for a little while? The reason I ask is that it makes a difference. Stalling at highway speeds can have different causes than stalling at idle.

The 30 minute delay after occurance makes me suspect that your problem is heat related. It sounds like something is heating up, maybe then sending bad data to the computer, then cooling down and resuming proper operation. Or the computer itself could have developed a heat related problem.

I've had this happen with a crankshaft position sensor, where I'd be driving along and the car would just die because the sensor got hot and quit working. After about 30 minutes, it would come back to life just fine. I think someone else suggested this, too, so it's worth checking out.

Logan

This is so weird, I read the header and started laughing... had the same issue with my mother's car, a 2001 Ford Focus, excluding the fuel pump noise. But stalling out in the rain, staling out while idling at an intersection as soon as the accelerator was pressed... It took months and many trips to a service center, and dealership... got all kinds of other potential causes fixed, all to no avail.

Eventually, we found her cause... there was a slit on the underside of her air hose... it's been so long now, I can't remember exactly what hose, maybe her vacume hose, but I should have a copy of the auto parts store receipt... I'll have to look for it.

Anyway... inspect your air intake circuit closely, that's where her problem was.

Good Luck,

Javahead

A similar thing happened to one of my vehicles years ago. I checked all the electrical systems, and found nothing. It only stalled in the rain. Then one day, poking around under the hod, I lifted up on a vacuum valve, and it came apart in my hand. It looked just fine sitting there, but was leaking air. Apparently, it pulled in water when it was raining, and stalled out the car. I epoxied it back together and never had an issue with it again. If you can find a stethescope, it is good for finding the source of some noises and may find a leak, if there is one. I have been told that spraying WD-40 on parts of the engine helps find vacuum leaks. The propellant is pulled into the vacuum system and makes the engine run faster. I would think any aerosol can with flamable propellant might work, but there is always a risk of fire.

thanks for the suggestion...dont know if anyones thought to look at the vacuum lines...will check it out...still trying to find where the crank position sensor is also??

Mechanics usually use a gas canister and torch, but only turned on not ignited to do exactly what you describe....

I do believe that today there are spays that basically do the same thing, though I have never used them myself.....naturally far more expensive than a bit of Propane/Butane!!!

Other posts on cavalier faults

http://cr4.globalspec.com/search/sitesearch?do=show&sort=textmatchrank&srch=cavalier&srchobjs=t%2Cc&fs=22&order=asc

On 2.2L 4CYL VIN[4] It's located on rear side of cylinder block below coil module.
On 2.4L 4CYL VIN[T] It's located on front side of cylinder block almost dead center.

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/540643

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_is_the_crankshaft_position_sensor_on_2.2_l_SFI_cavalier

hope it helps

https://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070430142026AAbIsJE

http://www.car-stuff.com/mmparts/chevy-cavalier/ignition_coil.html

http://www.car-stuff.com/store/?N=&uts=true&Ntt=cavalier+oxygen+sensor

Also, try spraying a very fine mist into the air intake, but only fine mist.

Reason during wet weather the air is denser and imparts more cooling on any sensor in its path especially a heated element air sensor.

Hope this helps

Hi,

I used to own a Pontiac Sunbird. When I first got it, it would only start after 5 to 10 attempts at turning the key . . . fully off, then attempt to crank. So it seemed. Eventually the mechanic I usually go to drove down to my work parking lot (where it sat immobile) and decided the problem was its computer. He replaced it and it started first time, every time afterwards.

E.

There is a single wire at the batt. pos. terminal that is one of the power supplys to the computer. It runs from the batt. down to a main harness below the left headlight.

This wire could have more than one " weatherproof " fuse or connector in line .

When this circuit goes bad it will cause all kinds of intermittent problems such as you descibe.

The problem is the inline fuse or connectors get corroded inside were you cant see.

To check , simply give the wire a good tug , it will come apart at the bad spot.

If there is an inline fuse , take it apart and check it out.

I have seen this more than once and the shop mechanics still havent clued in yet.

Let us know how you make out.