LPG Hose Type

brass dosent spark unlike steel spark gas booom

you can use copper/brass pipe in stead of rubber as long as your not going to move the thing much

thanks.. I'm going to move the pipe a lot... so to be more safer and durable which one of the following connecting pipe should I use to connect the gas cylinder to the burner placed in the furnace:

1. SS braided PTFE pipe

2. SS braided Rubber pipe

3. Unbraided Rubber pipe

Rubber hose no braid required as the preasure is low, and pipe is not being moved, although rubber does degrade over time, if it was me i would use metal pipe.

It will out last rubber, and if there is a fire it wont burst adding fuel to the fire.

If you are moving it a lot i would go for

1 or 2

braided hose, as the hose has added protection then.

If you are using LPG Orange LPG hose is to be used ,it is rated to take full cylinder pressure.

Hose fittings should be swagged and hose pressure tested do not use hose clips. The hose should not be connected to the burner if it is exposed to excessive heat, use copper tubing or steel long enough to avoid this problem at the burner connection.

Your furnace needs to be spaced at least 3mt away from your cylinder if it is being used in an open sided shelter and the cylinder should be on an outside wall if the premises is enclosed. You can fit your high pressure regulator to an inside wall with appropriate shut off valves as required.

Depending How large you burner is You might need 2 cylinders if your gas consumption is large you will loose pressure.

Good quality gas fittings are usually brass as they don't rust but steel can be used safely there is no regulation to say steel is not allowed .

Take care to leak test every thing before using.

Be Careful.

what is swagging of hose fitting as you mentioned in your reply.

I'm using heating torch as burner in furnace. Is it necessary to use copper or steel tubing at torch connection to avoid exposure to heat in my case.

For leak testing is there any other way other than soap/detergent solution test since it's awkward to use soap solution in inflexible connections.

Sorry ther is one to many g in swagging should be swaging. This is when the end fitting for a hose has a metal band around the fitting which is crimped by dies or a tool around the hose making it a permanent fitting, or the actual fitting itself is crimped on to the hose it must be designed for that type of hose.

You can use copper or steel tubing/pipe the length of which depends how your system is designed and how much heat the torch and pipes picks up, you will have to judge this yourself.

Soap and water is a good way for leak testing if you have the right mixture it will show up very small leaks.

Alternatively observe your pressure gauge with the line pressurised and cylinder valves closed.

thanks.....

what is the correct mixture of soap and water for leak testing?

thanks.....

what is the correct mixture of soap and water for leak testing?

The product sold in US as dish-washing soap is as good a product as anything else I have used. I will use a 1 Qt. spray bottle about 1 " from full. I then just squirt some in till the water color changes. 1 to 2 oz. at best.

Use a hose that is approved for the use of LPG. If you are in US or Canada, I would suggest Gates, Parker or Aeroquip. All make the correct hose for your application.

Mercaptans (the odorant added for safety) can cause cracking in brass/copper after long term exposure. All new gas fittings these days are epoxy coated stainless steel and are painted yellow for easy identification.

I don't think you need worry about Mercaptans if it was a significant problem they would have to scrap every gas appliance and gas installation in the world. As such I have never seen any problems in this regard.

the smell of LPG for the others viewing this thread

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071210060950AAt37aI

Check out Dormont. They make a full line of approved flexible conectors.

When you say LPG is that from a cylinder, or gas main.

And what country are you in ?

LPG is always from a cylinder, or a tank where it can be reticulated it to various premises.

LPG from two cylinders of 15.6 kg. I'm from India

Where you have flammables or explosives, do not use steel, as you can strike sparks with it. This won't happen with brass or aluminium (aluminum).

You do realise LPG & natural gas is stored in steel tanks, is run in steel pipes both liquid and gas with steel valves and steel pumps and distributed to premises surrounded by steel equipment. It is impossible for gas to ignite inside these assembles if they are full of gas, these gasses are combustible only over a quite small range of mixture in air roughly 2 to10%.

Are you suggesting that the steel in the above is dangerous or are you thinking of dynamite storage facility's in which case I would agree with you?

Steel is not copper, nor is it Stainless Steel. Every material has it's achillies heel(s). Mercaptan is Copper's achillies heel.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k1vuwrp875400033/

http://www.arkema-inc.com/literature/pdf/371.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=yzhgRqzATiAC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=mercaptan+attack+copper&source=bl&ots=xhXT5oIC-P&sig=I3pg9jI4bm1aB_2kNqtUjVMXG7c&hl=en&ei=oqkkTMiwK8P-8AaL5pixDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=mercaptan%20attack%20copper&f=false

http://www.chem.agilent.com/Library/technicaloverviews/Public/5989-6783EN.pdf

http://www.chem.agilent.com/Library/technicaloverviews/Public/5989-6783EN.pdf

03-12-2007, 03:12 PM Copper is required for gas (LPG) on boats in the UK, nothing else is accepted. That's been the case for about 20 years, but was the most common material used prior to that anyway.
I've never heard of any problems with it due to the Ethyl Mercaptan smellifier.

I believe some grades of brass fittings *can* be attacked by propane, whether that's the propane itself or the added extras I've no idea.

Tim

pcarpenter 03-12-2007, 03:19 PM The primary reason it doesn't make code here any more is the flaking garbage that can end up plugging an expensive gas valve. When it was allowed, they just insisted that you had an iron drip leg where you tied it into the iron T at the gas valve so that any crusty bits had a place that gravity could take them. It's still used for propane around here....but only outdoors where it is buried.

They have also disallowed brass flare to threaded couplers because they too can pit and leak. They don't handle being wrung up by ham-handed plumbers very many times without loosing a seal either. The last several appliance connectors I bought came with plated steel flare fittings...which would seem to me to be less apt to seal well. The local utility put out a brochure here a few years ago encouraging people not to re-use brass flare couplers for their appliance connections. Even pilot tubing for those things that still use a pilot are now aluminum.

My only concern is that if the stuff he is using is falling apart in trying to flare the connections then I would hardly think it has much margin for corrosion from the inside...and certainly wouldn't handle being bumped etc, very well.

I had few problems with iron pipe because I got to pick the location for the external regulator and just started running pipe from there. Internally, I just needed to get it up close to the appliance where I used an appliance connector. Iron pipe may be more work than uncoiling a continuous piece of copper, but I'd pick safe over easy any day.

taken from http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/archive/index.php/t-23231.html

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

The majority of the answers on this question get it wrong, no surprise. The truth is that it is now fine to use copper pipe with natural gas, and it is now done all the time. Once upon a time the additives that make natural gas smell bad, which are Thiophane or t-butyl mercaptan were used in much heavier amounts, which were then corrosive to the copper pipe. this is no longer the case, and in fact it has been safe to use copper now for over a decade. Please read a past Yahoo Answer on this topic from a year ago "Is it safe to use copper pipe with natural gas?" which answers this very well. Also the web site www.coppercanada.ca topic "copper natural gas systems" proves they build with it in canada all the time, and in many areas of the US it is being done as well. Some local codes may be out of date though. One thing I will mention is a direct connection of copper from black iron pipe will cause electrolysis and corrosion. A 6 inch piece of brass pipe should be used in between. Also flexible stainless connectors are readily available, so why not use one? It just bugs mw when so called plumbers and former gas company employees on here misinform the public. You should do a little research before answering if you have doubts people! Source(s): Yahoo Answer 1 year ago "ia it safe to use copper pipe with Natural Gas?" and www.coppercanada.ca topic "copper natural gas systems" Taken from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091025043027AAC9pGm http://www.coppercanada.ca/publications/pub36e/36e.htm

In high concentrations yes, as used in LPG and NG systems it is not a problem and not relevent to the OPs question.

Copper tubing and brass fittings are proved for use in both natural gas and propane containing Mercaptan. Virtually all gas equipment uses brass orifices to feed the fuel for combustion.

Due to strength mercaptan as an orderant. The amount added to either fuel is in the parts per million range. This will not degrade copper or brass.

You are referring too 100% liquid mercaptan. This is when the of copper and brass are not advised.

Good luck buying copper flex hose to connect your appliances. It is no longer sold for gas service, at least not in the US.

http://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/2000TL5S.TXT?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=EPA&Index=1986+Thru+1990&Docs=&Query=600S286056+corrosion+in+copper+pipes&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=3&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=pubnumber%5E%22600S286056%22&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&UseQField=pubnumber&IntQFieldOp=1&ExtQFieldOp=1&XmlQuery=&File=D%3A%5Czyfiles%5CIndex%20Data%5C86thru90%5CTxt%5C00000009%5C2000TL5S.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h%7C-&MaximumDocuments=10&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r75g8/r75g8/x150y150g16/i425&Display=p%7Cf&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1&SeekPage=x

http://www.csb.gov/

[DOC]

Public Education Materials for the Control of Lead and Copper File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
The United States Environmental

taken from the link below

http://www.copperinfo.com/cproducts/building.gas.fuel.html

Based on tests carried out by the Gas Research Institute (USA), and with more than 30 years of successful use of copper by certain gas companies in the United States, major code bodies in the USA and Canada have approved copper tube for fuel gas systems. In 1989 in the U.S., provisions for the use of copper tube and copper alloy fittings for interior distribution systems were incorporated in the National Fuel Gas Code (ANSI Z223.1/NFPA 54). Similar provision is made in the Canadian document CAN/CGA-B149.1, Natural Gas Installation Code. Since then, there has been an increasing demand for information on this application. The National Fuel Gas Code also provides for the use of copper tube and copper alloy fittings for underground service lines from the main to the meter. ASTM B 837 Standard Specification for Seamless Copper Tube for Natural Gas and Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gas Fuel Distribution Systems identifies the requirements for copper tube (Type Gas) made specifically for fuel gas distribution systems.

Information

This publication is intended for the information and guidance of professionals dealing with the design and installation of copper tube in natural and LP gas distribution systems. Many local regulatory authorities have adopted the National Fuel Gas Code, some with additional requirements for use within their jurisdictions. Designers and installers of systems should check with the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and with the company supplying the gas, to find the exact regulations in force.

Advantages Of Copper Gas Tubing

• Lowest overall system cost for fuel gas applications
• Lowest cost material
• Easiest system to install
• Large labor savings over black steel pipe
• Ideally also suited for retro-fit and remodeling applications
• Cost-effective for both low and high pressure systems
• Material certified to an ASTM standard
• Approved by national and international codes - National Fuel Gas Code, and International Mechanical Code and International Plumbing Code
• No special tools or manufacturer-specific training needed - can be installed with the tools and skills the installer already has
• Backed by technical and field support by the CDA throughout the country
• Semi-rigid material
• Universal availability throughout North America
• Lighter than black steel pipe

CR4 Admin: Modified Post

Copyright Violation: Reduced copied text according to copyright law. Please see Section 13 of the CR4 FAQ about posting copyrighted material.

http://accurateinspections.com/coppergaspipe.htm

http://www.finishing.com/132/77.shtml

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/approved-gas-pipes-d_1112.html

http://www.copper.org/applications/fuelgas/fuelgas_faq_all.html

http://catalogs.indiamart.com/products/gas-pipes.html

http://www.copperinfo.com/cproducts/building.gas.fuel.html

Flexible braided copper lines have never been used in Canada for gas. The two main connectors are an approved corrugated SS prefabricated one and a SS braided one.

I meant corrugated SS hose, not braided hose. I have never seen braided hose used here in the states for gas service, not saying it isn't approved, just never seen it, installed or for sale. and the corrugated hose is invariable epoxy coated, either gray or more often yellow.

Fixed pipes, tanks are OK. But if you have connectors being taken apart, that is cause for concern.

I am sorry to say that you have a very limited knowledge of gas installations and procedures for working on them.

You do not take plumbing apart with the gas turned on, also if there are large pipes with large volumes of residual gas they should be flushed out with Nitrogen before working on them. These lines should have tap valves in appropriate places.

With small bore piping the amount of residual gas is also small and not a great area of worry, as a matter of interest you could break apart a fitting of an unpressurised line and ignite the gas and all it would do is burn with a small flame momentarily and then go out because the is no Oxygen in the line to sustain the burning, though of coarse this is not recommended practice I am just using it to make a point.

A good gas fitter should be aware of problems which can arise which comes back to the question if you are not sure what is entailed do not do it.

Mmm just look at those brass relief valves and shut off valves sitting on top of the tank.

Should round the question off I think.

I think i have already posted this, but if not.

A report produced for the Health & Safety Executive

by Matthew Hunt, Kajal Somaiya and Tony Taig

TTAC Limited March 2010

Risk Assessment of Corrosion Leakage of LPG from Domestic Underground Service Pipework:

MAIN REPORT

http://www.hse.gov.uk/GAS/lpg/ttac-corrosion-leak-lpg.pdf

After reading all of the above all I can say is the following:

-You must follow the gas code in your jurisdiction.

-You must use materials that are approved in the gas code.

-You must follow good piping practices and installation procedures that are in the code.

-Some jurisdiction will allow you to do the work your self and others will insist on a licensed gas fitter.

I know that most code books read like very poor VCR instructions. Good luck.