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Marble Roof

07/25/2010 3:13 PM

I import and produce architectural items made from marble here in the states. I often am asked by customers to produce special gazebos and other items which require little engineering knowledge. Now I have a customer, who is one of my best, who asked me to build him a marble gazebo that mimics the Taj Mahal. The only catch is that he would like the roof to be constructed of marble as well...the gazebo will be 22' square.

I have neither told him this is possible or not possible yet. I was wondering first off...is this possible to construct a roof out of marble? I can not imagine it has the strength of reinforced concrete. Or would it be better to build a structure out of iron and concrete then use panels to cover the skeleton of the structure?

Any advice on where I can learn more about this or any ideas is great appreciated!

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#1

Re: Marble Roof

07/25/2010 3:24 PM

Time and money will fix many problems.

There is probably a good reason marble is not typically used to construct a roof.

Off the top of my head I'd look at Corning Glass, and what sorts of structures depend on glass, and how. Many do, but not typically for the roof.

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#2

Re: Marble Roof

07/25/2010 6:36 PM

What do you/customer have in mind for the roof shape? If this is emulating the Taj Mahal, I would imagine an "onion" dome. Then I would consider how to adapt a geodesic dome to this shape. Flat marble panels would give a polyhedral effect, but it might be possible to make the panels flat on the inside and curved on the outside.

This sounds like some pretty heavy-duty customizing. Whoever masters this might find a great niche market in Islamic countries.

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#3

Re: Marble Roof

07/25/2010 8:32 PM

Welcome to the insanity.

You did not give us any location, so I will add this. I have a good friend that has been working on getting approval for clay roof tiles made in India for the past 5 years. The requirements in Florida are at odds with roofing tiles required in frozen northern climates. And tiles sold in earthquake locations are different again. And, each different shape needs approval. The method to hold the tiles down are very exacting also. Try contacting a large roofing wholesaler in your area. They may have some suggestions.

Can the marble survive through freeze thaw cycles without cracking? Can the marble be drilled, and then nailed down as slate is?

I do think it should be workable if the freezing is not a problem. Please post some pictures. Good luck.

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#4

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 12:24 AM

IF the panels were cut in a geodesic dome hexagonal shape and curved as suggested earlier, then "glued" together with VERY GOOD silicone and you only needed to form the hemi-sphere shape- with a wood frame around the dome and marble set in silicone on top of a 3/4" weather-rated plywood or nominal 2" thick tongue-and-groove teak panels at the "flat" roof perimeter, you might make it work.

Also as noted, you will definitely need to meet local codes- even for a non-dwelling gazebo. I suggest you contact a local architect and/or a structural engineer for support.

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#7
In reply to #4

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 8:57 AM

The only objection I have is that silicone is not an acceptable roofing adhesive. It makes an excelant sealant, and as an adhesive, it has some excelant qualities, but South Florida building codes will not allow it as a roofing adhesive.

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#8
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Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 11:02 AM

Totally makes sense.

Then- alter the suggested approach by using the silicone to "glue" plates together and then install over a bed or pitch with appropriate countersunk stainless steel screws- assuming that screws are acceptable for attaching roofing material.

Cover the screw holes with white silicone beads to keep the "clean" appearance.

Or - as stated earlier- talk to a local architect.

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#5

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 12:29 AM

Yes it is possible. As I remember, some domes were built with tiles, that (I can only find this nazi example) were lightened by hollowing them out in the middle. The forces are still transmitted as normal in an arch, but the dome is much lighter. There are numerous ways to reinforce with 2d arches, rings, pins, etc.

I watched a show recently that discussed a domed building in Istanbul (either the Hagia Sophia, or the Blue Mosque, and how it used bricks and mortar made from the same clay, and how that enabled cracks to heal, etc. Also it employed pendentives.

There are tons of ideas out on the net.

http://www.google.ca/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=hagia+sophia+dome&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://www.kns-int.com.au/img/dome.jpg

http://www.whereist.com/?tag=mosaic

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AqPtTvVs1U8/SV-_lQRJZDI/AAAAAAAAAHI/ud4H07DDD48/s400/0709200116.jpg

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 3:06 AM

Chris is correct,

but it all depends, are you talking about 100% marble?, yes thats possible, look to roman architecture, using the roman arch and flying buttress.

If not 100% marble then its easier and more conventional, using modern design and engineering.

A lot also depends on the quality of the marble, Carrera?

Spacecannon

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#12
In reply to #5

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 7:01 PM

This isn't the Taj Mahal, but I thought I would play with the tiled construction of the dome (the hard part of the gazebo).. the geometry can get complicated... but in theory it is simple. It isn't a perfect arc.. but it can be worked out. let me know if you needing design help.

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#13
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Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 10:26 PM

Chris, I am always impressed by your skills. I have a trial version of Auto Cad 2011. I have tried to do some simple things with it, and I could not do worse if I was blind. Is there a program that is easier for a dummy less experienced CAD user?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 11:06 PM

I started with a very good program called Moray, which outputs text files for scripting of the Pov-Ray raytracing engine. Both are freeware. and the povray is open source. Lots of the best scenes you have seen from me are done that. (Moray)(pov-ray)

you can do some cool camera tricks like depth of field, but it has really only about 1/100th of the complexity of 3ds max, solidworks, inventor. it is a simple wireframe only 3d program, with texture mapping and CSG (constructive solid geometry).

CSG uses boolean command to subtract one shape from another. (in this sample, the little balls are subtracted to make the dimples, and the cube and large sphere are involved in a boolean intersection)

Just so you know, I have a lot of trouble with Autocad myself. I used to be a power user from 90-92.. but I got away from it.. and now it is painful to have to use. I can open, plot and print.. but don't really create in it. one must stay up to date.

sample design from Moray/Povray of wrought iron columns.

If you wish to learn, I'll help.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 11:58 PM

I will visit the sites you posted. I will not play with it for at least a week . Thanks.

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#16
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Re: Marble Roof

07/27/2010 12:09 AM

are you interested in 2d or 3d drafting?

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Marble Roof

07/27/2010 6:09 PM

I would be very happy just to be able to do some 2d work. 3d is like me looking at the Victoria Secrets catalog.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Marble Roof

07/27/2010 8:57 PM

and what are you working on normally? architectural, mechanical, electrical or other diagramming? it makes a difference.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Marble Roof

07/27/2010 9:08 AM

Hey,

Thank you very much for the software update. I am always anxious to learn new programs. I am currently using google sketchup to create scale models, however, I am always open to new programs. I will check them out here in the coming days.

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#18
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Re: Marble Roof

07/27/2010 12:55 PM

no problem. its a passion of mine.

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#21
In reply to #18

Re: Marble Roof

07/30/2010 11:23 AM

I am looking for a software that I can create 3d architectural items such as gazebos and then apply accurate colors and textures of materials such as bronze, copper, steel, etc.....

I am currently using google sketch-up...however, this is more or less just a really user friendly "paint" program.

Any suggestions that wont break my wallet?

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Marble Roof

07/30/2010 3:07 PM

Hi Z,

Moray/Pov-Ray that I mentioned earlier can certainly render what you wish, but the drawback is when you want to do dimensioned drawings.. there is no capacity for that, so you will have to use a separate package for drawings.

All kinds of metals and stones are included, and easy to make... and you will spend a while coming up with your favourite textures. I really like the ability to make procedural skies, which I find difficult a bit in bigger apps. Moray even comes with some skies ready to go, so makes those outdoor scenes even easier.

Moray/Povray does metals exceptionally well, and also can do organics.. this bamboo is my attempt at that.

it has a simple and nice fog feature too, as you can see.

In this sail boat concept (wind from any direction), the solar cells are mapped images, and the rest are standard textures or procedural textures. (the flag is also a map) you can see glass, metal turbines, bumpy white hull, wood, checkered yellow, and of course, water with turbulence.

you also have complete control over lighting.... as in this stage I built for an ex-gf.. who whas a playwright.

this following one was a study of changing paint colors in a room.

I really like bench seating and booths... note the light shining through wrapped map on the lamp, simulating candle light and a filtered shade.

photo of same building complex. (portion)

There is also a great body of work out there on google that you can tap into for inspiration.

Best wishes.. PM me if you have questions I can help with. Of course you can always contract me to render your designs, if you send 2d drawings. I'm affordable.

Chris

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#23
In reply to #5

Re: Marble Roof

10/26/2010 12:43 PM

Hey Chris,

My customer is getting very close to signing on this deal. I have a 2-d drawing from my factory and was wondering if you could produce a 3-d rendering of the gazebo?

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Marble Roof

10/26/2010 12:46 PM

I can certainly try... can you send me your 2d drawing.

chrisg288 at h o t mail

Chris

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#9

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 11:53 AM

If you can make the marble in a shape that will allow the upper edge to be overlapped by the next tile above it, this product should give your customer good results. This brand is an example only.There are a few other brands out there, Search Roof Tile Adhesive. There are some requirements for an underlayment before the tiles go down. If you need more detailed information, let me know.

http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/adhesives/tilebond.htm

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#10

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 1:23 PM

I am a sculptor and have simulated marble (calcium carbonate) by adding duoMatrix-G (http://www.smooth-on.com/) and crushed calcium carbonate together to produce a look similar to marble yet harder. I am just finishing up a statue that has a welded rebar armature with the said material which is cast in a prepared mould around it. For further strength, I added some 6% by volume of fibergass chop. A really strong overall combination. I believe the same thing can be done with your project. In this way you could make the curved dome without a polyhedrone look.

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#11

Re: Marble Roof

07/26/2010 3:42 PM

Thank you everyone for your contributions...they are much appreciated. I have contacted a family member who is a structural engineer. I will share all of your ideas with him.

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