Holographic Universe.

Nice, nice, very nice-- So many different people

In the same device.

"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand."

Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

And women? What got women to?

Ask Tiger (Woods of course!)

Tigers no way....

What about myth"ology"?

That's just an urban myth.

Are sure it's hot air, it could be methane gas.

Good point. We should construct an indoor wind farm and then ship all the politicians on Earth into it. Voila! Enough clean free energy to last mankind for the next 1,000 years.

When is your next spaceship leaving? And why don't you take off from India ? i volunteer about 10,000 methane generators for sure....

Unfortunately the Empire's ships are powered by matter-antimatter fusion engines for hyperspace travel and ion plasma engines for sublight travel, so we have no use for methane producers.

Say, since small villages in India often use biogas for cooking fuel, why not send these gasbags (pun fully intended) to them instead? Just think about it: hot air to power wind turbines to generate electricity from the front and methane for cooking from the rear.

Why, it would solve India's energy problems once and for all, at least in the small remote villages.

Regrettably, the villagers are quite smart. They are waiting for the politicians who were so "promising" at election time to come and answer why the promises have not been kept...mayhem would result, and the purose would not be served. The only way out i see is to export our politicians and import an equal number, methane+hot air being the parameters. i await offers....

Awesome,,,,,! I like that.

The Great Puppet Master has strings attached to everything.... It's all a conspiracy of One.

Hallucinogenic mycology may also suggest many connections that are not actually real.

GA

That explains the voices who are calling themselves guests and asking how a flashlight works etc on CR4....

That's easy. There's usually a small button that you press and then the flashlight comes on.

And you were able to get in on the ground floor of a unique opportunity.

I believe in Karma also.

Most of the replies have been off subject but I suppose that is what you get for asking a question on the internet.

Theology is off limits, by decree of CR4's administration.

your question is vague, the replies are within the parameters you set

Time.

I'd tell you more, but then I'd have to x you.

no seriously.. it is Time that is at the root of it all... all measurable phenomenon anyway. you can't get away from it.

for myself i do not believe time as we call it exists except psychologically for us in our minds. everything - materials and forces - is connected. we notice these connections ( the ones we do notice, measure, tabulate, etc) and place them on a scale of reference and commonality that takes note of relative positional changes. these changes are what we call time. the universe doesn't require a clock - it has its space and material and energy within that space. we notice some changes and rates of change and relate this to what we call clockwork. well thats my take on it anyway.

it really is a quantum world... even time... that is the beauty of it.

the mind is an integral part of it, so not believing it is okay... you have your 'window' on the world, and what you see is based partly on what level the mind is at. there is no harm or loss... not really.. all is illusion.. illusion of the mind.

what we generally experience as 'the world' is just one level... where cause precedes effect, and you don't see things from the higher level. (simultaneously) Our minds are capable, but we don't often get up to those levels where we can see beyond that. In our dreams, things are a little more mixed up.. more like the higher realities.

we are integrated psychologically and spiritually with the universe. The illusion is primarily the illusion of being separate from everyone and everything. the truth is that you are everyone and everything... separated by the illusion of time... so you can understand it at a fundamental level.

chris

mmm i really don't know if i can digest all those words - those descriptions without reverting back to a simpler picture of all these layers of compexity ( holographic or not) don't you think we tend to bury ourselves in complication to avoid understanding how simple our universe is and protect ourselves from understanding some (to our ego) nasty underminings of our own perceptions and understandings. i do. yes we have deep roots and long tentacles of perception if only we can loosen up the hold that our science and sociology has on these roots as they probably go back to the beginnings of this phase of the universe we are in now. oh well - time for another cup of tea.

Just thought I might point out that this discussion departed from the realm of science when the questions were asked. Isn't science supposed to be based on demonstrable, repeatable experiments which produce data? But we immediately enter into the realm of "I have my opinion" "Do the stars affect us" and "Have you seen the future in dreams", which are all launching pads for speculation. Any position on karma is a faith-based position. Nothing but simple belief is the basis. The question I have for the person who believes in karma is, "What then governs karma, why does it even exist?", not that it would be answered here, since "religion" is forbidden.

Everything Chris said is faith-based as well. Sounds rather quite like Buddhist thought.

While I don't think you can actually separate science from theology to begin with, clothing faith-based ideas in scientific jargon doesn't actually make it scientific.

Hi Chris! Funny you should mention Time. I see Time as a linear dimension that intersects our 3-D world at the present instant much like a pencil intersects the 2-D world of a sheet of paper as you poke it through the sheet. We remember the past as history, like the part of the pencil already passed through the sheet, but can't see the future because its like the part of the pencil that hasn't been pushed through the sheet yet. The "present" is like the cross-section of the pencil in the plane of the sheet of paper. Being 3-D beings, we can see the sheet of paper and both ends of the pencil. I just wonder if this analogy could be extended, and beings from higher dimensions (if they exist) could see both ends of our Time arrow. String Theory predicts up to 11 dimensions. Do they surround us?Are they real or mathematical constructs to make the theory jive?

Have you seen the future in dreams ? etc...etc.

Yes. Mostly peeks (and generally totally unhelpful), although once I saw the answer to a complex college maths exam a month or two before the exam, boy was I smiling that day.

Yes that is the kind of thing I have experienced I put this down to the universe having a predetermined path so it seems the future is already planned.

Good answer.

Thank you.

Yes that is the kind of thing I have experienced I put this down to the universe having a predetermined path so it seems the future is already planned.

That's not the way I see it. Just because (someone) gets the odd glimpse into the future doesn't necessarily prove pre-determinism theory (or multiple parallel divergent universe theory). My view is that pre-determinism theory is a cowards view of the universe around them which is used as an excuse for a persons mistakes and short comings (the "I was meant to fail / be a loser / end up in jail, etc, it isn't my fault it's someone else's").

Pre-determinism theory proves no free will (merely cause and effect), and that is just as silly saying that the Hadron Collider can cause a black hole that will eat the earth. Easily dis-proven with knowledge, scientific facts and simple and repeatable experiments.

You mentioned "Holographic Universe", care to elaborate on your views?

1 :Just because (someone) gets the odd glimpse into the future doesn't necessarily prove pre-determinism theory.

Of course not but how is it possible to "see" the future like that without some Just because (someone) gets the odd glimpse into the future doesn't necessarily prove pre-determinism ?

2 : You mentioned "Holographic Universe", care to elaborate on your views?

Yes a holograph if developed and then smashed into many pieces will still contain lots of information of the bigger picture it once was and so can be said to be connected to the original. Like there is gravity magnetism light and everything connecting every part of the universe together like a hologram and I could not think of a better word to get the connectivity point across.

I make a new post as you have made me think...It will be in General section hopefully.

The latest information is that the universe extends to billions of light year around us. Even if we limit to our own galaxy, milky way, there are millions and millions of stars. If all start acting on our destinies, we are doomed. But we are not. So they don't effect us the way astrologist says. Then we are subject to the forces of nature for our physical aspects, I mean equilibrium and all. But tell me why are you allergic to religion? Man is not a machine and so has a mind and thoughts and did not or could not have coem here by accident. I think your basic mis-concept is that man is only matter and came by accident. I remind you about the quote of Darwin's time that the probability of life by accident is comparable to the probability of a complete dictionary result from an explosion in the printing press.

But tell me why are you allergic to religion? i know its getting close to talking about religion now and thats not supposed to a topic here but my answer to you is - because religion ( and this is only my personal opinion ) is a few layers removed from the primary actions and consequences of actions of our universe and therefore is probably a construct of man and not "sent over from above"

An interesting viewpoint, but not conventionally religious.

No one knows.......and that is the whole point.

Theories -- left, right, center (political), above, below (religions) -- have been , are, will be proposed to solve the mysteries that bug us.

Man has been, is, will be unable to accept a question mark as "The" answer.

Any and all forms of logical thinking by any terrian or any E.T can only go as far as his/her understanding of what he/she knows or has achieved ......so far !

Anything else beyond that is presumption and educated guesswork. --- (see Wikipedia for definitions (so far) of Dark Matter and Dark Energy percentages in the Universe)

A thought : Have E.Ts the arrogance of Man and do they also think that " They K-n-o-w"

To be humble in front of a question mark is not a defeat or a submission; on the contrary it is an open door to curiosity and an engagement to keep on learning........including a sense of humour and fun in the process !

Another thought ? is there a link is asked ? a pea soup has pea atoms everywhere in the bowl, the pea soup of the Universe has hydrogen and helium and carbon atoms everywhere...........where is the link with earth

cordialement

????

I am not allergic to religion.

Religion has no place in engineering discussion.

In my view God or God's do not exist.

....In reply to :"Man is not a machine and so has a mind and thoughts and did not or could not have come here by accident.".......You have no proof and neither does anyone else and Man is a machine a biological one.

In reply to : I remind you about the quote of Darwin's time that the probability of life by accident is comparable to the probability of a complete dictionary result from an explosion in the printing press. (Darwin was mistakenly ridiculed.)

The Universe is really big....really really big as you have stated in you post.

Therefore with lots of stars and planetary systems I think that the possibilities of life are nearly endless but it would seem to me totally random.

And returning to Religion and need for proof of all the God's and the prophets or messengers here on Planet Earth there is no evidence of them ever existing and certainly nothing measurable in any engineering terms.

Someone mentioned Mythology this is allowed as there maybe proof but you have to provide it for it to be accepted which also why I allowed Theology for the same reason but I think the chances of evidence coming from these ologies is next to zero if not in fact zero.

Given WE are everything - according to philosophy - the existence of this thread rather proves the connection.

it's just horrible

Oh ^{_{(insert Deity of preference)}}!

_{(now I feel so, so, so unclean)}

42

Dentarthurdent is that you my old friend? Where have you been? Did you bring your towel along? Your Babel Fish?

No I'm quite sure it's 37

it was 42 but now it has been shown to be 45 and the center of the universe is just a couple of miles from where i live in Rickmansworth.

I would change the title of this thread to:

Epistemology - Lets Chat -

Chris has it right, it's all about time, because without it.........everything would happen at once..........tic......tic.....tic......something to ponder on.

Mighty Force definitely a very real designer definitely not in the sense you are leaning towards.

In reply to : Why can science with all its insightful wisdom of this earth and the universe, cannot duplicate the science in the leaf of the grains that you ate for breakfast and that sustains you?

Science can do what you suggest and even tamper with the DNA of life.

Don't have time to read all the posts and draft a detailed reply.

A good short answer that can be researched and experiments tried by others is to get a copy of the book, "The Secret Life of Plants" (Tompkins & Bird) and read it. It's even available as a free PDF download if you really look. Although it is a scanned copy.) Your imagination will be stimulated and if you like experimentation you'll get loads of ideas to investigate and try.

P.S. - None of this requires "theology". Read the book to see how others discovered and investigated "connected" phenomena.

You are posing what look like metaphysical questions. You cannot have a physical answer to a metaphysical question. Metaphysics includes religion, where you can propose an answer. Nice try!

yup!

Many years ago I read came across a book called "The Tao of Physics"

Would recommend it for all. Was years ago and I would have had a hard time on first reading it to explain it fully in words then so will only say that it has some extremely well thought out insights into your questions and very nicely allows "science" and various "ologies" to coexist.

Ah yes - right up there in the 'must read' list with Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and Jonathan Livingstone Seagull.

The OP could well benefit, even if it just resulted in understanding punctuation.

CR4 needs a new category to post discussions and questions.

Wing Nuts!

_{Brave Man, very brave}

_ahem.

He meant it in the best possible way.