Asking CR4 Admin.

Short answer: free energy or HHO threads are now taboo due to far too many scammers trying to use this site to con gullible investors.

Shorter answer: CR4 will determine what is, and isn't appropriate, period.

Yup ! Maybe sad but is true.

Alexander might want to try (as an option) creating his own site for a few bucks a year and then provide links to his homepage for CR4'ers to give their opinion.

Yahlasit

I'm positive that there are many places where people such as you are free to discuss perpetual motion HHO and all the other scams out there.

Surely you are capable of finding them on your own. Or, if you'd like we can help you find a site that is run more to your liking. Be glad to help you myself, just let me know.

Sorry that you want to change things to suit your personal tastes, after such a short time here.

I know, why don't you start your own site. Then you can run it any way you like.

Cheers.

Additional answer and my personal opinion: Too many free energy threads that have been started here have converted to nothing more than rude shouting matches between promoters and detractors. Typically the promoters either refuse accepted scientific theory or are incapable of a reasoned scientific analysis. The detractors just get frustrated trying to get the promoters to accept basic high school level science.

Now if you can locate validated real data and analysis on a machine labled free energy that either confirms the claims (not very likely) or that shows how people can get fooled by any of these machines then you maybe able to present this information here. But CR4 has had too many threads that have gone badly discussing free energy machines.

You could have searched all of CR4 using the box to the right, and found, among other things:Re: Self Running Bedini Magnetic Motor.

Once again, have you bothered to read the FAQ's? Apparently you have not.

I think the site is run very well, thank you.

I'm glad these threads are still here. Alexander, read these, they will provide you with hours of entertainment and information.

It's embarrassing to admit, but, I became enamored with, "Brown's Gas", after reading a full page ad in Popular Science, which I still subscribe to, but totally ignore the ads. It was through CR4, and reading posts from people that are smarter than I am, that I realized the folly of it all.

If a technology emerges that is truly worthwhile, this site will be completely on board. Check this one out,http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/55729/New-Engine-Design-Doyle-Rotary. This is something that truly shows promise and there are a lot of people here that want to see it come to fruition.

You all speak of "Free Energy." Was I pushing "Free Energy?" To some Engineers, upon closer scrutiny, the Bedini motor looks like a workable machine, never mind the scammy "free energy" claim. So I presented this question to CR4 and had a bucket of shitake piled on me. I do not believe in free energy or any other voodoo science. If the Bedini motor really works, as so many claim it does, then it's energized by a conventional source. Isn't this worth a examination and a discussion??

Watch this :

How to build a Bedini motor | Video « Wonder How To

I didn't bother with the second half. When we get to the point where he said "the motor's not working today, but I'll demonstarte how it works", I quit.

Alexander, with all due respect, I'm sure this has been looked at and been determined not to be a workable machine by members here. If it is indeed a workable machine, please build one and submit your results here, you will have more friends than you ever imagined. If you don't want to build one, do a google search, find some data that suggests that this machine does indeed work, (real data), provable science, and once again, you will have more friends here than you can imagine. You are upset that members here have a different opinion than yours. This presents you with a unique opportunity to prove everyone here wrong. If you are able to do that, we will all be humbled and forced to admit our ignorance. In the meantime, jump into a time machine and read the threads on CR4 from earlier days. It is a truly enlightening experience.

My dear kramarat. It is amazing to what extent I am being misread and mis-interpreted and mis-quoted. I DO NOT insist that this thing works and that everyone should accept this. I do not know if it works. I have no idea. But I have examined the design drawings and IT LOOKS TO ME that this thing can possibly work. Not on free energy. There are two 12 volt batteries there. In addition, I am not trying to prove anyone wrong, or right or anything. All I asked is that people should take a look at the design and give their opinion, which would have resulted in a discussion. I did not ask for anything else. And yes, kramarat, after all this medieval hassle I am going to build such a motor and see for myself if it works or not. Now I am really ambitious to find out. And I got lots and lots of friends, kramatat, more than you imagine. And thanks for your kind words. You are a civilized person.

Thank you Alexander, I look forward to hearing about your results, please post. I suspect that this source of energy has probably been covered here. Do I think your OP should have been pulled? My answer is hell no. You are obviously a person that is interested in this technology, we all are, but, if a topic has already been covered, there is no reason to reinvent the wheel and go through the same arguments that we have all already had. Hang in there, ultimately, you will enjoy the CR4 experience. ( I would like to repeat. Do I think your OP should have been pulled? My answer is hell no!) Did I see any evidence that you were trying to rip someone off? Hell no. Once stupid questions cease to exist, so will go mankind.

Alexander,

You are quite correct that you did not promote the Bedini electric motor as a free energy motor. But your earlier thread in question itself has as a title "Free Energy Motors". So to say that you weren't marketing this as a free energy device seems to me to be a specious argument, at best.

Now from my brief review of a Bedini machine. This appears to be a machine designed to store energy that either an incompetent or a very clever person could easily mask the magnitude of the energy stored or that one could easily obfuscate the actual power drawn so that imprecise instruments could display no power being drawn that were actually just less than the resolution of the instruments.

Lastly as I mentioned earlier, this forum has repeatedly already given plenty of latitude to many "free energy" proposals and discussion threads. ALL of these earlier threads (that I've witnessed and partaken) have devolved into harsh, non-rational arguments. Because of this, regardless of which side of the free energy discussion you reside on I cannot fault the administration (I am not an administration member) for shutting down any discussion on a free energy device on this forum.

So I believe that the administration is actually being quite generous of offering the possibility that confirmed data on a claimed "free energy" device might provide an open forum here. But a simple request to discuss any "free energy" device should be prevented.

Can we all just take it easy on the guy? I'm sure he had no idea of the "attack mode" that was coming down the pike. I can guarantee that I'm not done asking dumb questions. This is no reflection on you red, I just jumped on your post. Just because a newcomer asks a question that has already been argued to death, does not automatically make him the enemy. Once again, I've been drinking, and feeling a tad sentimental. Kramarat- signing off/ goodnight

In my earlier post, redfred, I did not speak of a A FREE ENERGY MOTOR. I spoke of a "SO CALLED" FREE ENERGY MOTOR." All I asked is to look at the schematics of that friggin motor and lets hear some opinions. Not Voodoo opinions. Technical opinions. Has the Bedini motor technology (minus the free energy angle) been already examined on CR4? I do not hear that it has. So I am automatically indexed as a free energy freak and attacked from all sides, all the while not having mentioned free energy at all. And this is called a stupid question. Kramarat says so. Well, well. I write this, redfred, not to attack you but to correct a misquote. And while at it, I want to ask you another fool question. Imagine someone comes along with a suggestion to discuss "free energy." And immediately some semi-God called Admin puts a stop to it, growling "Thou Shall Not." Would this be acceptable to you?? To put a muzzle on what you can talk about or not talk about. So what if it has been spoken about before. So what?? New things, new ideas crop up all the time. The dogma of true Engineering, redfred, is boundless curiosity, without boundaries, without limits. This is how we achieved what we got today. By complete freedom. Not by muzzling and repression. I am wasting my time, redfred. It was nice talking to you.

Alexander, I was not suggesting that your question was stupid. The point I was trying to make, is that there is no such thing as a stupid question. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget their own stupid questions.

I am sorry, kramarat, I misunderstood. Did not mean to offend. I understand now. And yes, you are perfectly right. I do have my fair share of stupid questions and I am sure there will be more in the future. You said you wish to hear how this Bedini motor will turn out. Pls give me your email, if you like. Thank you.

A GA from me. Sometimes I try to be nice. Why bother?

You're on the right path from you're earlier comments. Prove to yourself that it doesn't work, go forward with the possibility of "maybe". People will never even seek to understand what they don't believe is true. Hardest part is proving that it works using existing "theoretical" laws.

To explain how they work, here is part of the key:

Speed = power which is the E=MC2 formula. This video may help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVQ-3Xb5KEM

My simplified explanation, the effects of mass increase as you move faster. Magnetic fields take on the properties of mass as they move faster also. A higher voltage will affect the space and the areas around it with greater repulsion / attraction.

If it doesn't work, why they sell at 14 megawatt generator EBM for $20 million? A lot of work and time and people to create a hoax. Here is the video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x53ta2_energie-gratuite-electromagnetic-ov_news

Look at Joseph Newman, he will explain why it works. He is pretty wound up and you have to listen to it as information and get past the personality which may be different than your own. $20,000 will buy his machine. He has a phone # but not sure if he will call back.

Here is the link to John Bedini's site: http://johnbedini.net/john34/bedinibearden.html Plenty of explanation. Better yet, just buy a kit and build one for yourself. http://potentialtec.com/

Today's kids and teenagers with curiosity will be the ones who will understand and take this for what it is. It's hard to convince anyone who already believes it is unattainable. Interesting, all the inventions in the past and all the people said we could never do most of things we are doing today.

Instead of spending your time saying this doesn't work, go buy a kit or use your talents and skill to go build one. Many of the high paid talented people reading this have the approx $4,200, or just buy $160 fan version.

If I had seen a backyard bench top prototype working, people would not believe unless they saw for themselves. And if I said that I knew of someone building and selling these (not on the public market) people would still not believe it.

Good luck all, I'm hoping this will create a positive lead forward for people to look for answers and solutions rather than creating doubt and negative comments about something they don't understand.

What a load of piffle. This complete misunderstanding of terms is exactly why free energy scams propagate and refuting them just leads to angered frustration. The only things that "speed" and "power" have in common are the letters "p", "e" and that the words have the same number of letters. You cannot even write the relationship between mass and energy correctly. It is E=mc² or if you prefer to not use the CR4 font control E=mc^2. But this relationship is true only when all of the variables are in the correct units, but I digress.

You don't understand the fundamentals to permit an intelligent discussion here.

I think there are a several sentences in this post that have some merit as sentences -- at least in the linguistic sense. The physics, however, are utterly and stunningly wrong. Nevertheless, there may be something hidden in your post that makes sense upon the more careful reading it no doubt deserves. Rest assured that there are others here who will look it over and perhaps they can find something that makes sense. Perhaps the OP will respond?

In the mean time, I would recommend that you build a Bedini motor to gain first hand knowledge -- nothing beats learning by doing. If his claims are valid, then you might be the first to build a working version, and if so, you will be on your way being a billionaire.

To explain how they work, here is part of the key:

Speed = power which is the E=MC2 formula.

Just to clarify for any future readers: The above statement is totally and completely wrong.

I imagine that you, danman, are unacquainted with physics and thermodynamics, which is perfectly OK: there is no requirement to be an engineer to post here. It is also perfectly OK to put forth any theory here about how impossible and implausible contraptions might work, even if that theory is clearly contradicted by existing laws and theories (such as the laws of thermodynamics). Many CR4 members will silently chuckle and make no comment about such posts. Other's will point out a few of the most glaring flaws. Some people here who care about physics education and about reducing the prevalence of consumer and investor fraud will also jump in to avoid giving tacit approval to these schemes. These threads (promoting old ideas as "new" or promising, and promoting belief in magic) can also serve as good "teachable moments", helping people unacquainted with physics to understand how stuff works... provided, of course that they generate positive comments that support science and engineering.

The only possible problem with putting forth ludicrous theories to support these scams, especially theories like the speed = power one (which is so blatantly wrong) is that then you run the risk of being seen as part of the scam -- whereas in fact you may be simply very open minded (a good thing) or perhaps very gullible (not something that harms others, at least) or perhaps simply completely uneducated in the subject matter (which, as I said before, is not a problem either -- especially because there are many very good physics sites available where, if you were interested, you could read up on the way stuff works).

The other hazard, a very small one because you rarely post here, is that you lose all credibility on this site, because engineering is based upon physics. Engineers do not subscribe to the notion that things work by magic.

Interesting, all the inventions in the past and all the people said we could never do most of things we are doing today.

I think that the idea you are trying to communicate here is that in the past, all people were skeptical of new inventions. This is completely untrue. Unfortunately it is yet another sentiment that is brought up by people promoting scams -- and I doubt that your intention is to promote scams. But you should understand that here, at CR4, eyes roll when people write such things. The people who write such things are often trying to encourage the reader to give up on analytical thought -- which is, in fact, an essential part of getting real inventions to market, and so essential a part of engineering that virtually every good engineer is highly analytical.

I haven't done the study, but my guess is that if you gave 1000 well and broadly educated engineers the 100 most recent patents in their areas of expertise, virtually none would say "Sorry, that wont work." regarding any of those inventions. Instead they will more often say "Why was this issued? That should considered obvious." Or "Clever... I wish I got there first." Or "That can be so easily worked around." Or "This is unlikely to ever be developed."

Successful human-powered flight is much more recent than engine-powered flight, and I have followed the development of human-powered airplanes since the very early days. Because it is more recent, the record of "what people said" is readily available. No one who had a clue was saying it can't be done. Many were saying "Boy, that'll be tough to make the plane light enough, and the human fit enough, but I can see from a couple quick calculations that it should be possible."

The classic untruth that scammers use is that no one thought the Wright Brothers would be able to fly, and that the "naysayers" somehow interfered with their quest to fly. The truth is that no educated person of the day (no one who knew the subject mater) was saying that they could not fly, because others had already flown before the Wright brothers. Ignorant people and people completely uneducated in the subject matter certainly said such things, however. Today, there are still people who say the world is flat.

CR4 members are very positive and encouraging re new inventions and all sorts of interesting engineering solutions to problems. We are certainly not nay sayers regarding real inventions, and are strong supporters of the physics and analytical thought that underpins engineering and science. Obviously, we are not supportive of scams, which we consider to be a negative rather than positive phenomena.

Good luck all, I'm hoping this will create a positive lead forward for people to look for answers and solutions rather than creating doubt and negative comments about something they don't understand.

I trust you will take my comments as being very positive and in support of engineering, science, and the process by which good ideas are developed into marketable products. I hope you've seen that your fears that there would be negative comments (against science or physics, perhaps) were not realized: we are a singularly positive bunch: virtually every widget or gizmo that comes on the market that makes people say "Wow" comes about as a result of engineering. Engineers do not take the dark view that stuff works by magic and that rational thought is useless against these dark forces.

BTW, I appreciate your sense of humor, regarding the EBM hoax. Another funny video is here. The Retroencabulator one is much funnier, I think, but the EBM one is good for a chuckle, too -- but requires at least a basic understanding of physics to be seen as humorous. The Retroencabulator one is more broadly accessible, and has great acting and good production values, too.

A slightly different title for your thread--"Free-Energy" Motors?--might have helped. It would have conveyed initial skepticism, even if you wanted to leave open the possibility of such devices. Your surprise at the at unfavorable reception is, well, surprising.

Maybe the PE curriculum needs to include some classes in physics and thermodynamics....

Great reply. Thank you for your time. I have posted very little and lost site of the original so was trying to add value.

Have a great day.