Sizing a Water Service for Residential Home

I would not dig up anything yet. There are other faucets in the home. Check and see if the same problem is observe from them first. Start at the first one connected to the main coming into the home. If you do have the same problem then I would look at the lines exterior to home. If you have no problem there work towards the shower. Last check the shower head and the faucet valves in the shower.

Before digging up pipe or puting in a booster, ask questions and do some testing as OZZB suggests (GA by the way).

Get three or four 5 gallon buckets, a watch with a sweep second hand, and a couple of able bodied assistants. start at the outside hose valve, and time how long it take to fill up buckets for 10 minutes. Record the number of seconds for each bucket. One person keeps the record, one person empties the full buckets and one person to fill the buckets. Do the same thing in the shower and one other sink in the house.

When you compare the fill times for the three locations, you should have an idea if the problem is indoors or outdoors.

Ask the water supplier what the daily pressure variations are in the waterr supply. If the rest of the town is flushing toilets and taking showers at the same time, supply pressure will drop and slow down the flow rate.

This is so dependent on many circumstances. How old is old? here? What's the water like?

I recently replaced a section of 30+ year old pipe in Arizona. The pipe ID was about 1/2 the original diameter with deposition of much mineral deposits.

I'd say that the Cu pipe will accumulate more blockage over time.

I'd replace as much of the feeder pipe as possible. It's the cheapest to do.

The copper going into the house should stay, for grounding purposes.

I'd also say that the flow should not change over time, so a valve may also be moving? Or some blockage is moving in the line and acting like a valve.

Not much, but that's it.

GA

Right - the old pipe is most likely no longer the same ID.

3/4 inch for that run is on the small side anyway.

The pipe is cheap - just a labor problem.

A booster pump is not a solution - only another potential problem.

No use in over complicating a simple problem.

I agree, ¾ inch is a bit small for such a long run, and a booster pump is not the solution. It might get around the symptoms but will not solve the problem.

LynLynch has hit the nail on the head: "the flow should not change over time". Low flow is one thing, and points to a constriction somewhere (or all the way) along the line. But a drop in flowrate is an entirely different issue, especially to such a degree and only after a certain time has elapsed.

The flowrate should be checked, as ozzb suggests, at different points in the house first to try to isolate exactly where the problem is occurring. It might not be in the mains line at all, it could be in the hot water system. Isolate the problem area first, then it will be easier to focus on identifying the problem itself.

From Sleepy,

here in the UK, the external water pressure varies as other external users change their loading. Especially as a next door neighbour changes her lawn watering our pressure goes down and up in sympathy. Now with the pipe size that you advise outside and the pressure that you advise you are unlikley to suffer from that effect but I do think that it is worth watching the pressure on the incoming pipe. It could vary a lot more than you realise; if you can see changes and see a pattern there may be a need to talk to your supplier and or your neigbours!

Good Luck

Sleepy

I strongly suggest DO NOT DIG!!!! (Yet)

If the flow is initially OK, then the flow changes to a different amount, this is an indication that there is an air entrapment in the system somewhere. (Creating a pressure accumulator that provides the intitially higher flow.) Remember, this is a theoretical hydraulic system with the implied constraints relating to incompressible materials.

There could be air trapped in the hot water system reservoir.

There could be air trapped in the 235 feet of line at each high point.

Or there could be an irregular shaped obstruction that is being drawn through the line by the flow until it breaches across a fitting or valve causing partial obstruction.

Since you do not describe air coming from the fittings in the house, it would seem to relate to a moveable obstruction.

Starting from the meter end (curb valve) and then working towards the house, I suggest that you Turn off curb valve, open the fitting, turn on curb valve and run water for a couple of minutes (through a seive or screen to catch whatever comes out) and confirm the flow at each location as you move towards the house.

You will either find the offending item, or at least identify the offending length of pipe.

BTW, is your water usage metered? Aus is moving to showers that use less than 2GPM for all household instalations.

The- "He turns on the shower and gets 5 GPM for about 2 minutes, then the flow drops to about 2 GPM with no other fixtures on." could indicate that there is a constriction in the piping or a valve partially closed. Can he try the same test on the fixture closest to where the service enters the house as he did with the shower? If it is repeated there the problem is most likely between that point and the street main and not in the house after the first fixture.

Good Luck, Old Salt

I believe that the problem is the 235 feet of plastic line which has expanded a bit due to the relatively high 70 PSIG line pressure.

When the water begins to flow, the line slowly goes to "normal" diameter and the residual pressure begins to fall. When the line reaches "normal" diameter, the pressure drop or the flow over such a long run kicks in and you get sustained flow with "normal" pressure drop.

The cheapest and easiest solution is to but a small (7.5-10 GPM at 30 Feet) booster pump (30 feet is about 13 PSIG) at the entrance inside the home. Install a pressure switch upstream set to open below 10 PSIG- an EPA requirement to prevent drawing a vacuum on the feeder line- and a pressure switch on the discharge to start the pump if pressure falls below 35 PSIG and stop the pump if pressure rises to above 60 PSIG.

In the UK, the water regulations require that the shower shall be supplied from the header tank, which is usually in the loft at high level. The principle is that, should the water utility turn off the cold supply with no warning, then the person using the shower will not be scalded by the hot service.

So, without knowing how the plumbing is arranged within the building, one solution would be to ensure that both the hot and the cold feeds to the shower come from the tank, and not from the incoming main. Once that's done, the size of the main doesn't matter.

It would save an awful lot of digging....

In that case when the supply goes off, both the hot and the cold to the shower go off at the same time, so the system is compliant with the regulations.

Remove the shower head and see if the reduction in flow still occurs. There are some commercially available shower heads that automatically reduce flow after a period of time to discourage long shower times. If the problem goes away with the shower head removed you've saved yourself a lot of time and trouble. If blockage is involved it might also be at the shower head and the flush could remove it.

Dear Poster,

With a flow rate of 5GMP and Hazen-Williams C=130 Head Loss is 5.57 FT Pressure Loss is 2.4 psi for the 55-feet. When the flow drops to 2GPM the flow velocity is insignificantly small and there are no losses in the pipe due to friction.

At 315-ft Hl=32FT Pl=13psi if you upgrade you service to 1" Hl=7.9ft Pl=3.4psi

Does your friend always shower at the same time? It could be a peak hour flow demand that causes the drop in Q.

You should not dig up the service, close the first curbstop and do a pressure test that will identify any leaks, If you cannot do a test then check the HDPE-K-copper transition couplings. If he does replace the service USE TYPE-K COPPER TUBING, it works and it will last over 100 years EASY, (assuming a non-corrosive soil enviroment and adiquit distance from any power lines 10-feet min)

It is highly unlikely that there is a blockage becasue your meter would be damaged or your water would be discolored. Furthermore if there was a small break in the line you would expect to havve air pockets comming through as suction would be created at the leak. I think your buddy showers at the same time that a majority of the people on that distrobution main showers.

For constant pressure install a bladder type booster pump, (even though there is no need for incresing pressure it will stabilize your varriable flow velocities).

Increase the pipe diameter and stay away from the copper!

Booster pump? Why would someone add such a thing if the mains have adequate pressure? They seem to as there is initially good pressure.

If my contractor had suggested 25mm pipe I would have laughed at him - 40mm or even 50 - the pipe cost is no big deal.

I totally agree on the value of larger bore supply piping (from the city's 3/4" pipe to the house) but was trying to avoid over 300 feet of digging, backfilling, compacting, replanting grass, etc.

Not a huge problem with today's mechanical helpers, but still a lot of hassle.

More

Just so everyone knows what a booster would look like, though it would be preferable to fix the problem, not just cure the symptom :D

" Furthermore if there was a small break in the line you would expect to havve air pockets comming through as suction would be created at the leak."

What is creating this suction?

He lost me at, "It is highly unlikely that there is a blockage becasue your meter would be damaged or your water would be discolored."

1. At a faucet or hose connection that is closest to the inlet of the house and cold water only, check the flow rate. If it seems OK proceed to 2. If not proceed to 4.
2. Check the flow on a hot water tap and you will notice that as the water gets hot the flow will decrease. This is because the valve seats are rubber and expanding to shut down the flow. Replace these seats, cartridges, or o rings. Old houses will have seats that seem to act as if it has a memory when expanding. If the house is very old you may have to replace taps.
3. Drain the hot water tank of sludge build-up. It may be blocking the hot water outlet. Replace the HWT if necessary.
4. Dig your portion of the inlet line. Check to see if the inlet line is 3/4 ID or 3/4 OD. If you are changing it is common to use soft rolled copper 3/4 ID or 1 inch ID. Copper is used on municipal lines to minimize bio-slimes that can also block pipes. However, check with your utility provider for best recommendations.
   

I would just add, in each location, be sure to check the flowrate at the start, and again after 2 or 3 minutes running.

The issue of low-flow is a bit of a red herring. If the flowrate at the start is 5gpm, and this is deemed an acceptable flowrate, then clearly the system is capable of delivering an acceptable flowrate, and measures to increase flowrate should not be a consideration (at least, not until later).

The issue is a substantial reduction in flowrate after a certain period has elapsed. Appropriate testing should find out first where this is happening, and then why.

dear sir,

few decade means many years and suddenly water flow goes down, is that what you mean?

Please check the following;

1. pipings maybe block

First check water flow from town line.

2. maybe someone connected to his water line.

3. pipings maybe have leakages.

look for spot where water accumulation is detected.

4. maybe the 70 psig is the town water preasure is also a few decade water pressure. In this few decade many houses, establishments or factories were built around and water pressure or supply is getting insufficient. If so, try installing a booster pump from town line.

By the way, 315 ft cannot be considered infront of the house. Just kidding.

erlo

I looked through several of the responses, and did not see a comment concerning the Pressure Reducing Valve (PRV). I would check to see if the house has one. This situation explained sounds very much like a faulty PRV. Many times they are located just behind the meter or at the end of the municipal service or in the crawl space or basement depending what part of the country you are located.

Now that you mention it, a backflow preventer could also be the cause, though it would be unusual to have one in an older residential installation.....

If a previous owner had anything added or had to pull a plumbing permit, many times the municipality will require the home to be "brought up to spec" concerning the plumbing code. This many times includes a PRV and Thermal Expansion Protection. I got hit with this on my 1880's Victorian, when I wanted to replace the ancient gas hot water heater with an electric version.

CaptM,

I've been thinking on your voting suggestions in your post #29

"I think I'll broach the subject w/ the Admin.....OR... advise them that folks can vote once by using either button where 3 "off topic votes" can equal a "good answer vote" or a good answer vote can override off topic votes???????"

I feel it has merit. Could solve several issues.

Ok, it biases the system to '1 good vote = 3 bad votes', but then 6 bad votes obviously wins a "BA".

(self OT is obviously not a good head start, so that 5 would mean an 11 OT vote threshold)

But then - if the BA count can go next to the GA count in the members profile box, this saves the problem of extra software complexity in adding and subtracting final votes?

Or do you think a BA should just cancel a GA in their total count?

Or maybe, like additionally, there could be a little red thumbs down on the jackass post.

Is this what you had in mind?

Concise comments/replies are useful. It makes little sense discussing the neighborhood when the topic is one's rose garden.

If someone is not smart enough to check to neighbors water pressure when having problems with his own - then there will be no solution. Neighborhood water pressure problems would normally be a topic of discussion across the fence.

Anytime someone uses IMHO my alarms start to ring. If an opinion is worth having then no reason for it to be humble. The opinion may be right or may be wrong but humble?

The present rating system is fine with the exception that there is no 'bad' answer button.

Ummm, how about incorporating a "cynical response button" as well Russ while we're broaching the subject? LOL Seems to be very appropriate for the type of postings found in this forum lately.

Not all neighbors talk to one another you know...fences or otherwise. My wife and I have long given up that option with the jackasses living on either side of our house.......literally NOT the friendly type because of inter-breeding by "incest is best", which is pretty typical around here. Besides, they're both dog haters and I have 5 Border Colllies that are far smarter then they and their offspring are. High time to move the heck outta here if you know what I mean.

I'll use the term IMHO whenever I damn well please, humble or not....correctly or not...it's just my opinion that's all, right or wrong. I never inferred that my opinion would be humble or not either......I'm not on that "track" or "kick".

What the heck are you doing in Turkey anyhow?> Just Curious> in the service, or working as a consultant or field rep there?

Living here retired after spending a lifetime designing, building and operating iron ore direct reduction plants around the world - love the place and the people.

I have found my neighbors to be about the same anyplace I have ever lived. Ones opinion of others seems to be a reflection of ones own self most of the time.

Hey, wait one second here guys! Way off target and way off base too with your posting responses! It appears to me that some of you have taken things quite out of hand, and par for the course your responses to my posting have actually received "Good Answers", even though the topics of your discourse had nothing to do with the OP problems and fixing them! Something is definitely wrong with this rating system when this happens, and it happens quite often especially when a bunch of you tend to gang up on a guy like me who speaks his mind and doesn't pull punches. Go figure! MY OPINION IS JUST THAT, AN OPINION, REGARDLESS IF I USE "IMHO" OR NOT........AND MY OPINION IS THAT MAYBE THIS HALF-ASS RARTING SYSTEM SHOULD BE ABOLISHED ALL TOGETHER! yeah I'm yelling because a bunch of you must be both deaf and blind for all I know..

Also, some of you are really really hung up on the use of IMHO...so what and who cares, eh? Take it to the Pope for all I care. I have yet to see any of you attack others CR4 members when they use "IMHO", such as Del the Cat and quite a few others that use that term quite frequently too.....well now here's your chance guys to perform a forum-wide witch hunt! Go for it and see how far you really get! I bet not far when it comes to dealing with some of the other Guru's herein.

And how the heck did I "insult" the the OP of this blog? I did nothing of the sort and you really have misread my posting. In both of my postings there is nothing of the sort regarding insulting the man. All I did in the first is offer industry standard testing procedure that cost next to nothing to conduct pressure and flow testing at the outdoor house bib. In fact your municipal water dept probably has the equipment to conduct such a test for ZIP. And most likely they have the testing equipment to conduct the hydrant fire flow testing too, again free of charge. It is so necessary to determine the RESIDUAL water pressure and actual flow rate at the hydrants along the water main to ascertain whether those factors are the root cause of the experienced problems and to eliminate several unknown factors in the equation. Again this is solid Civil Engineering and industry standard. Also, if it is determined that the ware service needs to be replaced, then knowing both factors at the water main are need as a initial design point. That's correct, I have stated in both posted "IF". Mu opinion is this: with a 3/4-inch copper water service with a known length of over 300 linear feet it doesn't take rocket science to know it's inadequate to provide required flow of 5 gpm minimum (I'd like to see at least 15 gpm minimum) and a RESIDUAL PRESSURE of at least 35 psig in the water service lateral where it ENTERS the house. All of this engineering opinion and conjecture (since I'm not there at the OP's friend's house determining the actual facts) is based on years and years of experience, both in the field and in the engineering office. Mu opinion is that most likely the m,an needs at least 1 1/4-inch or 1 1/2-inch Type K copper water service, IF there is not a significant elevation rise upwards from the street and water main to the house. else calculations may determine a larger service size is required. Additionally, having the water dept. check for closed or partially closed valves along water main cost nothing...the water dept if it's doing it's job correctly should be exercising each and every valve in it's system yearly anyhow. Hydrant Fire flow tests are usually required by Factory Mutual (FM) anyhow so the municipality can maintain it's insurance, as well as satisfy the state health dept regs. Additionally, I don't suspect the house plumbing unless the Owner or his plumber monkied around with it.....I highly doubt that this is the case....it has operated for years and years without problems, so why all of a sudden only recently? One has to look at this from several vantage points. And one posting in particular stated check for some sort of check valve installed on the service line once it enters the house basement. Generally, such valves are not required in residences; well at least not here in the NE USA.....check valves and double check valves (like Watts Regulator) are usually required for commercial and manufacturing facilities, unless the house has an office in it where there's potential of flow reversal and possibly chemical and biological contamination of the municipal water distribution system.

Seems like a lot of "armchair generals and quarterbacks" are posting on subjects that they have little or no knowledge and experience of, so leave it to the professionals in that field of endeavor. In fact, your won't find me posting possible solutions in the electrical and manufacturing blogs. I may have some limited and basic knowledge in those fileds, but I too know my limits and won't. This advice (not an opinion) should be heeded by all forum members...stay within your realm of expertise as a general rule and don't contribute where you know little or jack squat about a particular subject or discipline.

In regards to neighbors in general. I beg to differ with you guys, but not all neighbors talk to one another...it usually falls to who have had family in the precinct for years and who is an outsider that has recently moved into the area. Believe me it happens all the time to a lot of people, and not just me and my wife. We have tried to approach these people on many occasions and they're just plain nasty as can be to anyone who is not in their social and neighborhood click, and not a reflection of our character whatsoever. Your approach and statements contrary to this situation is NOT universally true and happens all around the world. Case in pint with m neighbors: both are Corrections Officers with long established family roots in this community, so there is a snob factor here in treating newcomers period. Both get excessively falling down drunk each and every night after they return from work. Both are as crooked as the day is long and are also known to local police to have been involved in a great many thefts, but their respective family name and political ties keep them out of the slammer. As my wifes says about CO's in general is that they are only one step from wearing "Prison Orange" themselves and have a great deal in common with the inmates....most as as crooked as all hell, but there are exceptions and there are some good guys. My wife should know because she's a Registered Nurse working in the Medical Unit of our County Jail...and she's been there over 10 years (not a county employee either)!

I could go on and on here guys, but I have to go fix diner for my step kids, both of whom are Autistic teeagers and a handful......possibly another reason why the neighbors are such jerks towards us...they don't even acknowledge the kids, period! Fear factor? possibly...

A pat on the back to you dear SIR! Not a kick and not below the belt, a pat of congratulations between the shoulder blades!

Good Luck, Old Salt

CaptMoosie,

With all due respect, I think you are full of yourself, and "it".

The very first statement from the OP was in reference to the flow. It goes down after a consistent amount of time AND NEVER RETURNS TO THE ORIGINAL VOLUME.

Now, don't you think that if your guess was correct, that sometime, during at least some of his showers, that the flow would return to the original volume?

And why does it never start out at 2GPM and then go up to 5GPM, or even 8GPM, which seems logical if it is indeed a municipal supply issue.

Sorry, no cigar for you.

lynlynch,

I think you are missing the main thrust of my postings in that by performing the pressure and flow testing on the main and also at the FIRST outside hose bib you are in effect doing a PROCESS OF ELIMINATION to the cause or causes of what is producing the problems, ie, low flow rate and low residual pressure....or by during these tests you MAY FIND ONE OR MORE FACTORS that are attributive to the problems. That way you know for sure whether it is partially in the house or fully in the house.

Or you and others may be correct in your assertions that it limited entirely within the house internal plumbing, but can you ABSOLUTELY say that it truly is what you say it is without performing a thorough PROCESS OF ELIMINATION by testing. No you can not can you. Don't you see my point? It's only logical.

For all you know, the VERY LONG water service lateral may be original (over 100 years old am I not correct?) and possibly made of lead, or iron or God knows what. There may even be a small pin hole leak or a split somewhere or a leaking corp stop, a leaking curb stop, the coupling(s) where dissimilar pipe materials are joined, etc. along the service lateral. But how do you definitely rule out such possible occurrences without preforming a necessary process of elimination by using those tests that I suggested? Again, you cannot absolutely rule them out w/o the testing, which costs the home owner nothing if the testing is performed.

When I owned a 1896 Victorian house in Amsterdam NY that I had fully restored before my now ex-wife got it, we had an original 3/4-inch lead water service lateral that eventually blew out on us after a period of some month experiencing water problems. It was only 58 feet long as I recall and not nearly as long as OP's friend's service lateral. Needless to say for months prior to the big blow out we were experiencing the exact same problems as stated by the OP.....diminshing flow rate down to a trickle and only returning after a period of non-use of water, and low pressure (at every faucet, hose bibs, shower, the washing machine, etc.. I went crazy during those interceding months trying to isolate any potential problems like stuff or failed ball valves, the main shut-off where the lateral entered the basement. Even hired plumbers couldn't find the problems. Not even my good friend, an ex-Coast Guard pipe-fitter (he's now a licensed plumber as well) could not isolate the problem(s). If you don't believe me that this happened then I'll gladly give you my ex-wifes telephone number and you can talk to T-Rex yourself and she'll verify everything I say regarding this story and my credential if need be.....or she (it) may slam down the phone on your freaking ear.....you choice and roll of the dice, okay? Don't say that I didn't forewarn you! Myself, I never talk to the B*tch, only to my now-grown kids., but that's besides the point I'm trying to instill onto thee.

IF I and the plumbers had had the foresight back then 15 years ago we all would have conducted a process of elimination to narrow down the suspected factors attributing to the problems were having. If we had only tested the pressure between Point A (at the 16-inch water main in the street) and Point B (on the service lateral as it just enters into the house basement) we would have found the main culprit immediately along the service lateral and would have avoid all the guesswork and unnecessary tweaking of the house plumbing.

Well, the old service lateral blew out in a massive way, and when it was dug-up and pulled we found that the lateral had split about 16 inches longitudinally at the same exact location where the lateral had passed through the 24-inch thick granite foundation wall. We also found that the old brass corporation stop and curb stops had been leaking pretty good as well. In my opinion the leaks and blow-out were cause by excessive high dynamic water pressures within the main. We lived on a fairly steep main thoroughfare (a state highway with a 9+ percent gradient in front of our house). We were also 2 1/2 full city blocks and approximately 230 feet below the city's main pump station located at Brookside Reservoir. That elevation difference resulted in a Static Head of almost 100 psig. And when the city's massive centrifugal pumps (multiple and staged) kicked on, the dynamic water pressure in the city's two large mains in front of our house could reach in excess of 230 psig. See, without actually conducting pressure and flow testing on the main (into which we were tied into) as well as inside the house, we would never had known the potential problems that the flow and pressure that were caused by the combination of the large static head and large pump flow and deliverable heads. Another problem I only discover later was the fact that since the city's water distribution system had multiple pressure zones (required because of the high elevational differences throughout the city, a very hilly city), we sometimes experienced almost no pressure and flow when the pumps were off....we were situated on the high end of our pressure zone and when the water demand below us, which was considerable coupled with a very high elevation drop below us, almost causing a partial vacuum to occur in the water main. Yet another set of factors to contend with that would have be eradicated had a process of elimination been conducted via pressure and flow testing.

All the above was not the only set of problems attributing to or water related problems inside the house plumbing. After the water service was replaced water pressures and delivery flows were much better, but not to the same extent or level that they had once been after i had replaced the entire plumbing system our 2nd year in the house after we had bought it. I identified several other problems only later: a partially failed Pressure Reducing Valve (PRV) that someone have tweaked or tried to close and had been stuck about 1/2 way closed. This valve was one of two in series on the main 3/4-inch cold water line the ran the length of the house. I suspect that the guy who had serviced our Hydronic system boiler may had farte around with it to isolate or shut-off water flow to the boiler. Also, I later located a number of ball valves that were defective and would not close or open fully, even though they were less than 10 years old!

Again, more decisive factors identified that greatly affected the water woes inside my old house that wouldn't have been located had I not followed through a systematic and logical process of elimination.

Eventually the water pressure and flow problems were corrected after all the fixes.

Enough said. I've written way too much in this response to your postings. I have way too many other things to work on today without having to justify my postings and methodologies to you all.

Please have a great Labor Day!

Hey Garthh,

Since when does one LINK my visit to their offices with what weapons I may supposedly own? I have never done so. Only you have. Are you freaking implying that I'm going to show up there and riddle the place with automatic gunfire? Only you have implied that, and you're a very sick REMF'er having done so. As usual, you manipulate the postings in this forum looking for any tactical advantage for your sleezeball agenda, whatever that is at the particular moment in time.

And if you have any problems with me owning a weapon or two, then we have some very big problems to resolve here. Under the Constitution of the United States of America I have the right to bear arms. Care to read it someday? I wish to bear arms to protect my family, to participate in Match shooting comps @ National level, to hunt wildlife of my choosing, and to collect arms in historical context. If you don't like that then lump it buster and take it to the Red Chinese and kiss their butts as they bend over. They'd be exact your cup of tea. You make me sick with your left coast liberal hippy slant.

And another thing, I DO respect women, just not my X-wife that's all, as she's a blood-sucking gold digger who put my life and my kids' lives through 5 years of divorce hell a decade ago, whereas it could have been settled in as little as 6 months. The reasons why I will not share here, but it has nothing to do with my character whatsoever. It has everything to do with the color of money.......

So get off my back as*wipe if you know what is good for yourself.....

As always hurling threats/invective & ever the bully

you have on numerous occasions threatened violence on this forum, when you don't agree with others opinion/assessments

You have bragged about your arsenal & your willingness to use it in defense of some of your ideas

You have threatened to go to the GS offices, to air your personal grievances

Probably just braggadocio on your part, but who knows?

You have made & do make sexist comments

What's your agenda?

Capt Moosie-

Do not despair. That is the normal response for GARTHH (not to be confused with GARTH)! Just be thankful he hasn't invited his friend MORONIC BUMBLE along. They appear to have a contest going between themselves, who can be nastier!

I encountered them on a thread "Gas Motor vs. Electric Motor - Equal HP?" about 2-1/2 months ago. They couldn't or wouldn't acknowledge that anyone else but themselves could be correct or that a "rule of thumb" could have any validity to it.

Don't lose any time over them, they aren't worth your time.

Good Luck, Old Salt

thanks for the support old salt! ;)

Feel free to judge for yourself here

where Old Salt was arguing {his}opinion vs data

CaptMoosie,

I salute your prolific fingers. I am more economical with words, myself.

And for the record, I accept you as an expert in the field. I have no argument with proceeding in an orderly manner, but the supply piping begs replacement, if for no other reason than age. I'd be leaning on the city to replace theirs at the same time, too.

Then move inside and test away.

I'll pass on the T-Rex interview, thanks anyway.

Happy Holidays.

Hi lynlynch,

You made the correct decision not to ring good old T-
Rex because if you had you'd soon regret it! LOL She may be a 'looker" and has a nice rack, but she has a very nasty bite and disposition as well.....certainly not worth the effort....she's as bad as they come and she's just like her momma " Dragon Lady".

I pray everday that I'm alive that my 3 kids through her do not become just like her, especially my 2 daughters, else I'd have to kick their fannies, disown them, and write them out of the Will!!!!!

Have a good one.

I concur. Major Elkie RFD

A replacement feed to the house, were it to be installed in the UK, would be run in 20mm Ø blue polythene pipe.

Double-check that the electrical earthing for the house is not via the existing metal pipe, now not permitted under BS7671, before removing it. A separate earth electrode might need to be driven if TT electrical earthing method is in use via this pipe. TT is common in rural areas where the supply is overhead. If in doubt, consult a qualified electrician.

Before running that length of replacement pipe, double-check that the problem isn't inside the house plumbing anywhere:

• Valve stuck shut?
• Blockage in the header tank near the tank outlet connection - dead bird? Lump of roofing felt? Lump of loft insulation?
• Damaged/crushed pipe?

Possibly supply is wood, much used in past and in Great Patriotic War. Not so primitive as first glances seems, constructed much like linear barrel, no entasis, with interlocking tounge & groove staves, water swells woods, making very much tight waterproofness, conserves strategic metals for fight against Fascist Invaders. The absolute first thing I would be doing in this situation is buying about 10k boardfeet of white oak, chestnut or sassafras lumber and complete shop full of wood milling equipment, do it now, latter much time for quiet contemplation after danger has passed, time is of the essence And yes, I would like phone number of X-wife, very much please.

Here's a recent thread about removing iron from residential water pipes, which could be relevant. We have been in the wild conjecture mode of our program, without any new input from OP :D

Anyway, where was I? Oh yes, domestic plumbing and all that.

Well, what's the point now? The OP has probably long since departed for pastures new. More sniping and backbiting, after a while you forget what it's all about. 68 comments more than half of which have had nothing to do with the OPs posting, yet two (both totally off-topic!) earned GAs!!! What's that about?

If you're still there, Notsosmartafterall, let us know how you get on.

Have you tried any of the tests or ideas suggested yet?

Any new or additional information to report?