Another CFL Issue

Hi scotchdrnkr - little over 2 years ago I ripped out all the CFL's we had installed - one evening wife hollered at me she smelled smoke - in one of the bathroom ceiling fixtures the CFL had burnt & blistered it's base to a cinnamon-brown - darn thing almost appeared to be ready to fry - that was it for me...

This bulb was at about a 45 degree angle - should not have been any problems, but even that was cause enough to overheat the base & I guess the innards..

These things are bad news IMHO - I don't trust them, and I make sure I keep asking my kids to stay away from them in their homes -

All the Best!

I have noticed that the only CFLs that last any length of time are the ones mounted upright with the base down. Typically any that are mounted in fixtures at any angle or with the base up and the lamp down don't last more than a month or so.

The other big issue with CFLs is the low output during warmup. I've noticed that not all of them work this way, but the majority of them are very dim for the first few minutes and slowly come to full brightness.

I've also purchased several LED bulbs with no promising results. None of them have lasted more than a few weeks. Granted, these were not the high dollar ones you find on the web, but were the low dollar ones you find at the big hardware chains.

As for the ban on incandescent bulbs, special purpose bulbs like oven and refrigerator lamps fall outside the restricted types of lamps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banning_of_incandescent_lightbulbs#Federal_legislation

I still plan on hoarding some of the "low efficiency" bulbs. I currently use a 60 watt lamp as a heater for my feet in my workshop. I think that qualifies as 100% efficient, as all the energy goes toward warming my feet.

I recently found a line of CFLs that are designed to be used in a ceiling fan. They look like a standard incandescent bulb; i.e., the helical tube is enclosed within a frosted glass bulb. The packaging said they were OK to use in a ceiling fan. They've been working for about 6 months now. My main complaint is the same one I have for all CFLs: that it takes them a minute or so to reach full brightness. (Sorry, I don't know the brand, but I probably got them at Wal-Mart.)

As it turns out, though, the failure mechanism you describe is typical for CFLs. Snopes.com recently investigated a complaint that a CFL caught fire when it failed. Snopes said this claim was false since they could not verify any CFLs that actually caught fire -- but Snopes did remark that the smoking/scorching of CFLs when they fail is a common end-of-life occurrence. So the failure of your CFLs may not have been due to the vibration from the fan.

Here's a link to the Snope.com report: Snopes: CFL Catches Fire (false?)

I don't think all incandescent lamps will be phased out; just the most common types that use the most energy. I agree with you 100% on not using CFLs outdoors, especially in the Wintertime. Someone here on CR4 mentioned that they found a brand of CFLs that worked OK outdoors in the winter, but he/she never said what brand and I could never find any that were packaged with that claim.

We use CFL bulbs in walk in refrigerators and freezers and they lasted more than 2 years. We used bulbs from Satco company. Now we hawe Sylvania bulbs and will se how long will last.

Agree. We use them routinely in freezer environments as low as -20F. That's in about 500 locations across the lower 48 states. We've had very good results. Early on we'd had reports of high failure rates for those located adjacent to the compressors and thought that vibration could be the culprit. That issue seemed to go away on it's own once we started to study it. We have found that in temperatures that low it is best to leave them on.

I think that there is quite a bit of variability in the quality of mfg of the CFLs.

P.S. About 2.5 years ago I replaced the bulb in the outside light on the rear of my house with a CFL as a test. After 2.5 years I should probably end the test because I haven't had to replace it.

I found that the helical types appear to work OK in the horezontal position, I have had a couple in the ceiling fan for a year or so now.The vertical tube type did not like being horizontally mounted and burnt out in short time. Generally I have had good results with all my other CFLs ,I guess it is down to the quality of manufacture, I have opened up a few of the deceased units and have found a wide variation in assembly and quality of components.

Garth

I'd agree, but we have a few differences when compared with our American cousins, the first being 240V and the second being milder climate.

The odd thing I've had is one particular lamp starting flashing long after being turned off. It is 2 way switched so I replaced both switches in case a whisker had grown. I dismembered the switches and found nothing. The problem remained so I used a different brand, which cleared the fault for a bit, then occasionally it returns. It may be electric field from the ripple control frequency being picked up on the Strapper (the interconnecting cable for 2 way switching).

An additional thought to my previous post...

If incandescent lamps had a built-in soft-start device, so that they took a minute or two to reach full brightness, they'd probably last almost as long as CFLs are rated to last. The primary failure mechanism for incandescent lamps is inrush current. When the lamps have aged a bit, the filament (which has a lower resistance when it is cold than when it is hot) becomes more susceptible to damage due to high inrush current. A soft-start device could raise the current (or voltage) slowly so that there would be no sudden surge of current to pop the filament.

Look, we all know it...they are crap.
The sooner they are superceded with cheap efficient effective LEDs the better.
The government conned us all by virtually enforcing the switch over.
Ok they may take less power but all the other claims like longlife, improved virility and weight loss are a crock of shite.
Del

Hi all. Most CFL don't like heat much,the problem generally is the power capacitor in the circuit. Many inexpensive CFL have this component rated at 85 deg C whilst better ones have 105 deg C. Electronics at best don,t like heat or vibration and many of the units sold here tell you not to install them in small luminaires. The probable reason for the lamps lasting better in the cap down position as opposed to angled or cap up is probably heat convection flowing up through the components. i have had 2 boxes if 14W CFL which I used to retrofit into my home both boxes from big name manufacturers and all 20 lamps failed inside 1 year. All were returned along with the invoices and the manufacturers replaced the failed units under guarantee. But i must agree the average CFL in CRAP.

Maybe it's you're wiring.

Huh. I have had the same CFL lamps in my fixtures for 5 years now and only had 2 or 3 go bad just recently. No smoke. They are in light fixtures held at a 45 degree angle, no fan. One is in my bathroom and see's pretty high humidity. I have also had one in my outside floodlight that lasted about 1 year. These are the cheapy packs one can buy on sale from Home Depot.

When they came up a few years ago, they were "over designed" to meet the long life prediction. Now that all the governments have done their studies, and the competition has picked up, cost becomes an issue.

It is possible that the next ones you use will not last as long. The manufacturers have optimized their costs which often translate into lower quality.

Our society always want cheaper products. The quality and durability are not a concern of the masses. This is why todays appliances don't last a life time. Most people want to replace them every time they move anyway and they goo for the cheapest trendy model.

We are getting what we are paying for...

There is the nub of one problem, these CFLs were promoted by the green movements and governments pushed them on to the populace as energy saving etc etc. Now we have cheap production poor quality so the CO2 production is still ramping up and who is crying the loudest why the green movements and the governments who came up with the concept in the first place.

They have made no attempt to maintain the quality for long life usage because companies cannot make profits with falling sales, low profits relate to low taxes and governments have not learnt to trim there expenses. What a bunch of hypocrite's.

It is time the word sustainable was applied to governments as well.

We have been using them for a few years now in various places in the house. We had multiple bulbs go bad simultaneously, even ones that were turned off, when a lightning bolt struck <100' from the house. I was curious about the cause of that occurrence. I am assuming that the CFL's have a high frequency coil inside of them which caught a whiff of the lightning bolt.

Other than that we have had only one or two go bad. They look ugly when they die. By the way, you aren't supposed to use them in lights that you turn on and off frequently. They are ideal for lights that stay on most of the time.

I use the cheapo helical types in an outdoor kennel, mounted with base up, in cellar with base up, in garage horizontal. They all seem to last years and never smoke or burn.

I recently purchased and installed a flush mount ceiling light that uses a 23w CFL with a built in ballast. The cover of the light is a "plastic" dome. I'm watching it carefully for any signs of problems.

They seem to be producing more and more special purpose CFLs now. Outdoor specific, enclosed specific, mini-spots etc.

Just my 2 cents here.

I don't know where you guys are buying your bulbs, but like I posted on CFLs before I've had some of my bulbs for over 10 years (this are our outside porch lights that stay on all night). I also have a ceiling fan in every room of my house. 5 Bedrooms, kitchen, dining-room, living-room, study, and playroom, plus two in hall ways. Every fan has 3-5 bulbs I switch them out 8 years ago, so far none have gone bad no issues with fires or smoke (our old incandescent bulbs if dust would gather on them would start to smell like smoke). These fans run 24/7 but the lights only when need be. I have also put them in all 3 1/2 baths we have they are going on about 5 years now, and all of our closets have them. No issues. I've had one break so far, I dropped it, and no the EPA didn't break down my door and seal off the house. Brush broom, dust pan, and a plastic bag and brought it to our local municipal waste center where they recycle them (I think a total of 2 minutes clean-up time).

LED are a different story I find that they are very short lived and expensive. I've tried out door lights, Christmas lights, lights for different lamps. Longest lifespan I've had 1 year shortest 1 week. As far as I'm concern they need a lot of work done on them before I think they're worth while.

There are 2 types of bases in CFL's, plastic and ceramic.

One Christmas day 2 years ago i was home alone when i saw a flash in the back bedroom. Missing one leg it took a minute to get there. What i found was my sons bed on fire! We always keep 5 gal. buckets of water in bathroom here. Try carrying bucket with crutches! Got the fire out and had a big hole in the mattress. I found capacitors stuck in the burn area and looking up i found the base of bulb had a large hole melted in it and the pcb in pieces.

All bulbs were changed to better quality ceramic bases.

I agree. Although I haven't had any CFL failures that had scorching, I have been completely disappointed in their long life claims. In our last house we had a large elevated light fixture in our entryway that required a number of bulbs. I put CFLs in the top tier of sockets because I needed the "big ladder" to reach those, and I put standard incandescent in the lower tier. All but one of the CFLs failed (3 of 4) within a year. In the same time I changed out 1 of the 6 standard bulbs. I this case the CFLs were mounted vertically with the base to the bottom, and these were all GE CFLs.

I also tried some that were designed for a recessed can fixture - kind of a flood type bulb. In this instance the low output at startup was very noticeable. The light wasn't just dim, it was an eerie cold bluish light. I only tried a couple of these. One burned out in a few months and the other lasted around two years. These were Sylvania and they were mounted vertically with their base on top.

So it is safe to say that I am also not a fan. The idea is good, but it needs work.

I have also wondered about the inputs required to make CFLs. Given that they are so much more complex than a standard incandescent bulb, when one considers the materials and energy required to produce a CFL versus an incandescent and the disposal after its life, is a CFL really better for the environment?