Magnetic Prism

dear,

What is your question ? What is Magneto resistance ?

Any how, Prism effect for Magnetic flux ? Light with different frequencies gives different coulours.- ( white light inlet - with different lights on emerging side ) But, Magnetic flux with difeerent frequencies gives what ? only magnetic flux of the same frequency.

And, permamant magnet it self has DC effect, uni directional magnetic lines of forces.

Have you made an experiment with permanant magnet of prism shape ?

It will be devided into two halves - one N pole / & second S pole. with unidirectional lines of forces - running from N pole to S pole. -

For light - Prism is transparant.

For Magnet - Prism is Opaque. - So, There may not be any Mathematical expressions in terms of Fourier Series.that will be useful to analyse the magnetic power.

If you are having, it is welcome on the CR4.

Thank you for your response.

I think my question has not been understood correctly. Let me try to give some diagram. This poser is for brain storm and a hunch from my side- not verified experimentally. After one has to start with one hypothesis!!!

"Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish." -- John Quincy Adams

Sorry- I was trying insert a diagram and now CR4 seems to have removed that feature!!!

Start with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeeman_effect

Thank you for reference to Zeeman effect - something I learnt in college 40 years ago!!! So - it does make some sense. Now I am trying to see if it can be put to practical use and Magnetic prism - concept was proposed. If there is a wire carrying complex waveform on one side, the signal gets split (as per Fourier transform) into various individual frequency components- which could be individually picked up by different electrodes from another surface - similar to moving a spectra photometer to see indiviual colour lines in optics.

You will have better results with this:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeeman_effect

You left the last "t" out of the link!!

Are you describing a magnetic spectrometer?

Or a TV?

Thank you for these references. I think all this is going at atomic level- like the Zeeman effect etc. The magnetic spectrophotometer is also wonderful industrial application. But the hypothesis I am trying to put forward is for an application in day to day communication. Let me try to explain – what I have in mind.

Let us say we have an amplitude modulated signal V1 = Vc1 Sin(2pifc1t) * Vm Sin(2pifsat). Where Vc1 amplitude of a carrier with frequency fc1 and Vm is the amplitude of a modulating signal with frequency fsa. . Intentionally I have avoided using symbols. Now two side bands will appear along with the carrier. The final signal is V1.

Now imagine we have another amplitude modulated signal V2 = Vc2 Sin(2pifc2t) * Vm Sin(2pifsbt). Where Vc2 amplitude of a carrier with frequency fc2 and Vm is the amplitude of a modulating signal with frequency fsb. .Now two side bands will appear along with the carrier. The final signal is V2.

If fc1 and fc2 are separated wider without over lapping sidebands – there is no difficulty in demodulation. It is existing technology.

BUT take the case of fc1 and fc2 being so close that the side bands overlap. Then ordinarily it is difficult to separate out through demodulation. Will this concept of magnetic prism help to separate out the two signals- this is what I am wondering. Here we are not looking at atomic level effects as suggested by Zeeman.. fc1 and fc 2 should bend differently as it experiences different inductive effects while passing through a strong permanent magnet.

Take the analogy of a red light, green light, blue light being amplitude modulated. The mix will remain near white, but each component will retain separate identity and can be picked up separately!!!!

If possible – we can have many more communication channels – all overlapping and yet be able to discriminateand demodulate separately!!!!!

Aren't you confusing the propagation of an electromagnetic signal with the movement of electrons?

No - I am not confusing. I want to use the effect of magnetic field on electrons - may be using Flemings ' Left / right hand rule. That is why I am suggesting a wire carrying the signal is attached to a surface of the prism. On the other surface of the prism- we can have number of electrodes spatially spread out - each electrode picking up a different output depending on frequency. In this case (Lorentz' force - I suppose) the interaction between electron and magnetic field is dependent of frequency / speed !!!

Magnetic field transmission is in air.

Again as an after thought - I now understand why you felt I was confused.

I AM NOT CONFUSED OR CONFUSING. Let us take an antenna picks up signals from different stations etc which have carriers which are close with even over lapping sidebands. Today's demodulation techniques cannot separate out those signals. Hence that antenna signal can be passed through this so called prism - to separate out the two close carriers and then individually demodulate them !!

Hope - I am able to drive at what I am looking for - a wishful thinking !!

Do you mean like in frequency shift keying?

I'm afraid you are both confused and confusing.

You begin by taking about electron beams travelling through magnets, then launch into a discussion about what an antenna may or may not pick up.

How fast do the electrons move along a wire when a signal is transmitted? How quickly does a wireless transmission travel between a transmitter and a receiver? What is the speed of the electrons between the gun and the screen in a cathode ray tube? Please (for your own sake) research and answer these questions for yourself - it is easy to do, using internet searches.

I cannot continue with this discussion until you have learnt some more about the nature of the propagation of electromagnetic signals. Good luck.

Thanks for your comments. My hypothesis is a leading material for research. I will pursue it, but someone else could also look at it independently.

I perfectly agree that electrons speeds are higher. We have nanometer technology in semiconductors. So if based on my hypothesis- even micron / nano level shift is found in powerful / compact magnets - it will revolutionise communication. The spectrum need not be frequency multiplexed. You can have many transmitters which have overlapping bandwidths!!!!! What cannot be done by current demodulation technology - you can separate out closely spaced modulated carrier frequencies.

In down to earth communication: If this effect can be used within a wave guide, before the receiving antena where the transmitted wave becomes converted to voltage/current and then demodulated, then maybe I can understand the potential usage.

A high frequency modulated signal being conveyed with a conductor would be difficult to separate within the conductor (your magnet Prism will be conductive somehow ?) so that it will emerge on a different spot of the magnet surface and not be mixed with the next signal shifted in frequency.

I am not an expert in this field but have a difficulty immagining the process of separation and picking the different frequencies from the surface of a conductor (the prism).

Comparing with light (electromagnetic wave of a higher frequency...), lights of different colours are diffracted through the prism which can be considered a wave guide media since the waves are not converted to an electric voltage/current but remain EM waves moving within the transparent to light frequencies media of the priam. I think that the analogy stops there and, unless you can have a magnetic material transparent to the EM waves you want to handle, then this application is going to be difficult immagine. I think.

1. I can appreciate your attempt to understand.

2. But you must note EM wave is not affected by presence of a magnetic field from a permanent magnet.

3. Fleming's left / right hand rule applies to motion of electron perpendicular to the magnetic filed.

4. The rule is applicable to solid or liquid or air as medium.

5. Kindly see http://www.phys.utk.edu/labs/modphys/Hall%20Effect.pdf. Particularly look at Lorentz's force equation. It has a time variant component (meaning frequency dependence)

6. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect. Kindly go to the end and read Corbino effect specifically mentioning magneto resistance property – as different from Hall effect..

7. Hence electron flows through a metal (or semiconductor. Here we all already know Hall effect) - which is a permanent magnet in the direction perpendicular experiences different forces - depending on frequency.

8. Hence I stay with my hypothesis. If you feel uncomfortable with magnet in the form of metal and its high conductivity, one could try this using semiconductors. I don't know about conductivity of soft/ hard ferrites (which can also be subjected to permanent magnetic field perpendicular to electron flow). This could be tried as electrons move through hard ferrites under the influence of magnetic field!!!

In this thread there ius an earlier refernce to Magnetoresistance and this phenomena does exist.

Now I am able to attach pictures !! Here is what I was trying propose. As we notice prism shape is also a concept. The base and top cone are actually waste. Thus it could in reality become just a rectangular spiral shaped long tube. The longer the spiral, one could easily aim for greater separation of the signals.

The shape of the magnet may be a triangle but the magnetic field will not be triangle shaped. It is the magnetic field which can be used to steer electrons. Some implanter in the semiconductor manufacturing field use this principle to move ions in a curve with the heaviest ions being the ones that move in the less curved line...

So how are you going to get the magnetic field into a triangle shape?

Thank you for the hint. You are right in saying magnet need not be triangular. Kindly see my diagram as below. In hall effect semiconductors are used as substrate with magnetic field applied externally. Here I was exploring possibility of using hard ferrite itself as a substrate- but the conductivity is too low (high resistivity). Anyway look at the diagram.

I will attach diagram later (I don't know why the camera icon does not appear every time I open this link!!)

Imagine making front of triangle as N and back as S - need not be as shown in my previous drawing N as base and S as apex.. Instead of series f triangles to increase the spread, one could even have cylindrical / spiral shapes etc etc