Eliminating Dust Bunnies

I was a little bored and I figured I'd take the risk. It seemed to be a slow day around here anyway.

But seriously, I use quality TP, the wife more often than I do. There happened to be a beam of sunlight shining into the bathroom when I pulled a length of TP off the roll to blow my nose. The cloud of particles exposed by that beam of light was substantial, and yes, it would float throughout the house.

Multiplied by the number of times the roll gets used, we're really talking about a lot of dust over time.

I should have posted in chemical engineering, since whatever substance would work, would have to be nontoxic, non irritating and not impede the paper from coming off the roll intact. But still keep the dust stuck to the paper instead of flying away.

water 'n soap can work here! Was it wipe with the left & eat with the right or visa-versa?

Regards:

I don't know what your doctors say about cleanig your nose but our 'Continental-Doctors' [Hakeemss] always advise to do it with a Lint-Free cottn ''Handkerchief''

the item I couldn't get from USA market. No body knows what it is.

As for as the dust problem is!

You can't get a dust-free environment even in Operation-Theaters of hospitals.

Dust is so fine a granule size that you need not to blow your nose to have a view of it.

<< and wondered, where the heck does all of that dust come from. >>

It is in air always @ all times, cant have a so fine a filter to block it unless you block AIR also.

See in very fine houses with all the best facillities!

It is there.

Naturally there is no perfect thing in universe.

Has some imperfection.

And we have to live with it.

Have a fine day!

I'm afraid you've fallen into an all-too-common trap faced by Engineers the world over. You're trying to re-fix the fix for the original problem - which is waste excretion. In other words, you're working on fix #2 when you should be working on...well...fixing "#2".

You need to roll up your sleeves and really dig in there. Strain hard and wipe your brow. Don't let this bowl you over! You'll make a big splash if sucessful! But even if you tank, at least you won't flush your career. Just don't get frustrated and vent your stack or fly off the handle! Remember the old cautionary tale about poor Sue Lynn and her wax ring.

I have always atributed my dust bunny collection to laundry.. clothes.. towels.. sheets.. pillows.. .

Is there something I can spray on the whole lot of it?

ahh.. forget it..

.. You might be on2 something?

JE, what about turning licensed patents into dust free toilet paper?

Will the world actually beat a path to my door or is that just advertising hype?

Now that's funny. Quilted Northern is what I use. That ad is completely false and misleading!

Just imagine how big your dust bunnies would be if you used Charmin or another leading brand.

Yes.. I have seen the dust that emanates from high quality TP paper.. btw most good tissue wipes have the same issue. I end up sneezing more using kleenex

The best proof is the dusty toilet roll holder which is full of paper dust.

For the TP, try Hairspray on the sides. It might lock the dust in. Let me know if it works!

I considered hair spray, a really light coat. Might work.

One idea would be to open the TP outside, before bringing it in and take my shop vac to the ends of each roll. I could clean the shop vac beforehand and start with a fresh filter. That way I could quantify the true amount of dust coming off these rolls.

I get the big warehouse packs of TP, so that method would take a while. I was hoping for something a little quicker. Anyone that knows me here on CR4, knows that I hate wasting time.

why not install an air curtain at the entrance to the loo?

maybe a slight negative pressure in the room with hepa filter?

Actually, by current codes, "loos" are supposed to be provided with an exhaust fan to pull the polluted air out. Fresh air presumably is made up from the adjoining room.

Of course, the cheap fans and long ducting means the poor fan doesn't work well, so some pollution will leak out from the "rest room"!

Use vacuum channeled thru core of paper holder,with inlet ports at each end.Control system using a zero-speed switch to sense movement of roll,or hall effect with embedded magnet in holder base,etc.Or, could use electrostatic force developed by motion of paper against a plastic plate to attract and hold dust, similar to picking up paper bits with a charged comb.

Alternatively, a foot pedaled take up roll to allow using same paper twice, once on each side.Mount fresh roller above and behind the loo,with guide rollers directing the paper across center of bowl,across the bowl, and onto a take up roll.When one side is dirty, simply reverse the roll for double duty.This will halve the amount of toilet paper going to the waste treatment plant or ceptic tank.In a large city, the savings will be enormous in utility cost as well as reducing the amount of dust in atmosphere.

This will also allow for uninterrupted reading of the newspaper,and you will not mind licking your fingers to turn the page.

The merits of this system go on and on, but in the interest of brevity,I will abstain from any more levity.

HTRN

It may surprise some to discover that the vast majority of household dust is human skin:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080619031207AAoEF9G

So the question arises as to how this gets on the TP roll.

One reason is that much of the dead skin that sloughs off during a day ends up inside our clothing and we often expose the interior when using the rest room. Undressing to get into the shower etc. So while paper dust is a contributor, it is not the major contributor. But the problem is well known enough that systems are designed to minimize it:

http://www.tissueworldmagazine.com/09OctNov/operation3.php

Perhaps one solution would be to create electrostatic plates on the ends to attract the dust and keep it from going airborne

From that first article, it looks more like mites, dead mites and their droppings that make up most of the dust. That's one of the reasons I have no carpeting.

Anything that would bind down the fibers would also most likely make the paper stiff. We all at one time have had paper cuts on our hands. Don't need any down there.

What about the other sources your clothes,bed clothes, carpet, drapes, towels, even what blows in the window or door when open. You sure got your work cut out for you if you are going to remove all the sources.

Here a solution to the problem.

Dust fox no horses or shovels needed!!!

If I had not seen some of your GA before, I would think you had lost you mind.

The negative pressure ideas seem to have the most merit to me, and maybe you can combine the dust bunny solution with the accompanying foul gas generation of toilet operations.

GA"s don't necessarily indicate sanity.

I do have a bathroom vent fan directly above the toilet, but those tend to get clogged up with lint pretty quickly.....now I know why!

I'd rather eliminate or control the dust while it's still on the roll, rather than dealing with it once it's airborne.

Something like the hair spray might work, but then again, it could be an irritant when applied to sensitive areas.

see post 33

Minimize the disturbance by using only one square at a time. Remove a small patch in center of square and set patch aside for later. Stick index finger through hole and push square all the way over finger. Use finger to wipe. Gather square around finger and wipe finger while removing paper. Use patch to clean under finger nail.

If you do find the solution to your problem, please let me know as I have a worse problem. Dust Dogs! I wish to modify your fix to my problem.

I have two German Shepherds, Depending on the time of year when they move about, they have a tendency to leave a cloud of fur, dust, the neighbours cat, car keys, etc. behind them. Imagine "Pigpen" from the "Peanuts" X2

I have tried various methods to cut down on it:

-car wash: One of them ate one of those spinning brushes. Note; The spray wax made them look awesome!

-power washing: It was like trying to hit a chipmunk with a water gun at 500 meters. I did not know that they could move that fast.

-spray painting: Turned them into demented looking porcupines, and I could not get a decent colour match.

-cling wrap: It looked like a good idea at first, then after several KV blasts off of their noses due to static build up, not to mention they started attracting "Dust Bunnies"; I decided to put up with the status quo.

As kramarat has opened Pandora's box as far as dust Bunnies are concerned I am sure that some others out there have some thing to offer.

Note: I did lose my mind, but is so sick that it can not crawl very far. Still looking.

This is a common and well-known problem.

The major constituent of house dust is human skin. But toilet paper is another source that should be considered. Thinking engineers everywhere treat their toilet paper outside, before bringing it into the house. Personally, I use a spray on treatment like Scotch Guard, which causes the dust to adhere to the paper, but allows the paper to breathe.

This is easily done by spreading out the tp just outside the house.

I use a helicopter for the spraying, but a simple boom truck works well too.

For the human skin problem, all family members are painted with latex paint every other day. Visitors are requested to strip down and apply Pam vegetable oil spray while at the decontamination station just outside our front door. (Surprisingly, we found that some visitors objected to being painted, even when offered a good match for the Blue Men color. Some people seem so in love with their natural skin color. The vegetable oil spray is a good compromise.)

If it looks like !@#$ and smells like !@#$, it is more than likely coming from the edges of your toilet paper roll!

OMG...theres !@#$ everywhere!

My Grand-daddy told me that they used to use corn cobs out here in farm country to wipe years ago!

Corn cobs may help to eliminate the dust bunnies but it may be rather difficult to flush em down.

Using corn cobs may present a new problem though - "clingons".

Actually,young man, we used two types of corn cobs:Red ones and White ones.The white ones were used for quality control, to see if you needed to use another red one.

Flush?What is this flush thing you speak of.Do you mean level?We used to level the ground after we moved the outdoor toilet.And what is this "toilet paper" you speak of?

It sounds like it would make fine kindling for the wood cook stove.

Tender spots? What tender spot? When you grow up wiping with corn cobs you aint got no tender spots.We used to go barefooted year round, didn't need no stinkin shoes.If the ground got ice on it, we wrapped our feet in barbed wire for traction.

This younger generation is shur gettin soft.

----Gramps--(AKA: HTRN)

I find that the United Space Federation has the best methods for dealing with Klingons.

Maybe its time to get rid of the TP and start using a Bidet. No paper, no dust bunnies, and no need for a fox. Ahh, the French. Gotta love their ideas. Maybe there is a cost break somewhere by eliminating TP altogether. Lets see hmm...toilet paper about 30 cents, Bidet cost $400.00, therefore 1333 rolls of TP = 1 Bidet. Less vacuum costs and cleaner house means less colds, less medicine, etc.

That's a thought. A little pricey though. Plus, if it feels too good, we'll be fighting over bidet time, and nothing else will ever get done.

Try to reverse the direction that the TP is presently being unrolled from (over/under hand) as the under hand method should have less exposure to the surrounding air when dispensing a served portion.

Failing that - purchase the type of TP most institutions buy (hospitals, schools, prisons, restauraunts etc.) it is like waxed paper with no softening powder added at all!

I toured a paper mill outside Clatskanie Oregon about 15 years ago, They had dust bunnies of the freakishly large size right next to the machine that cuts the 20' rolls of TP into the nice little ones we use at home. My understanding was that "dust" of the household variety is composed of mostly dead human skin cells. So why do they cover everything up with sheets in them fancy houses when theres no one around? I dunno. I've done my fair share of cleaning in places with little to no proximity to the old BW(butt wipe) and there were dust bunnies a plenty. FIBER! Could the dust be the fiber Americans are lacking in their diets? We must find the source of the dust bunny.

Hrm… have you ever thought that maybe the toilet paper roll is a collector more than it is a source?

Maybe due to its proximity next to a porcelain device filled with cold water, a down draft occurs adjacent to the roll?

Household dust is caused by quite a few things… of which major sources are outside fugitive dirt particulate, carpets, clothing, and pets but with the major of all sources being dead skin cells. But, you are correct in toilet paper… being designed to break down easily has a loose fiber structure which does contribute to household dust… but based on other sources, it is fractional at best.

To minimize household dust… permanently close all windows and all but one door, install air curtain and tacky floor mat at single remaining entrance, replace all carpets with tile or wood, give your pets away to someone else, and stop using fabric softener which softens as a result of breaking down fabric fibers in your clothing, sheets, towels, etc. As for the dead skin cells… not sure how to solve this one… maybe install Saran Wrap Dispensers outside and wrap yourself up nice and tight prior to entering? At a minimum, stop getting dressed and showering in the bathroom adjacent to the toilet paper roll.

Seriously though… if you really want to minimize the dust caused by TP… maybe make a saltwater or sugar water solution and dip both sides in. As the solution dries, I would think the remaining crystals would help contain some of this dust and would also have zero impact on decay in the septic system. At a minimum, it would make the dust particles heavier and less likely to float around your house.

I guess another option along that line would be apply a film of body lotion or hair spray to both sides of the roll as well. Otherwise, all I can think of is maybe unroll slower?

JavaHead

I was thinking along those lines. Maybe take some kind of water soluble hand lotion, dilute it in a hand held pump spray bottle and lightly mist both ends of the roll. It would at least stop the dust from floating away, and might even keep it on the paper.

A misting might not provide adequite coverage or penetration. I would assume for this to provide some benifit, total coverage with about 1/8" penetration would be required.

Good point. Rather than diluting the lotion with water, use alcohol and dip each end into the solution.

There seems to be no limit to the things that Wikipedia knows a little bit about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_bunny

Thanks Doorman. I like the name, "sluts wool", kind of has a ring to it.

"Look dear, there's a big clump of sluts wool behind the toilet."

Try that line and I can hear the beatings from this far north

Here are a couple of pictures of the vent above the toilet. I cleaned this about a month ago. There is nothing else in the bathroom that creates dust. Bear in mind, the vent is not always used.

When the wife is doing #1, which is often, she never uses the vent, so this is approximately, according to my calculations about 1/6 the amount of dust being caught in the vent, as is being released into the open air inside the house.

Part of my dilemma, is that if I insist that she use the vent fan on every visit to the bathroom to stop the lint from entering the rest of the house.......she just won't understand.

I think you need to prove that this is really lint from TP.

How about keeping the TP outside and take the necessary amount when using the bathroom as an experiment?

I need to remove some of the lint from the vent and take it to a lab for analysis so I can determine what percentage matches, and is coming from the roll.

That sounds dangerous, running out would be very unpleasant.

We keep these in the toilet. No need for paper. It takes a bit of getting used to but they have smooth tongues, not like cats. I am very regular so they have their times and are already waiting when I get to do the deed.

The dust under the bed is used by spiders to help them entangle their pray so no dust under the beds either. They love the bunnies.

Here is one in its natural habitat. They only enter the house at night so no worries, they can't be seen in the dark.

Dust bunnies here? No problem at all. Mother nature provides all the answers.

Lucky the spiders don't like water that much otherwise the would eat the frogs. All well balanced around here.

And you thought you were bored, Ky

spiders... brrrr (shudders)

and to think I wanted to come to magnetic island!...

if the spider is bigger than an ant... I go looking for a shotgun.

at the very least, I refuse to share my residence with them.

I had a childhood experience that was nearly identical to the movie "arachnophobia" in appearance...

chris

Sorry Chris, you were not on this thread so I thought it would be OK. No harm done, I hope. My brother Jack is the same. He actually did the deed on a spider with a shot gun inside the house. He was even encouraged by me missus and the clean up and repair was left to me.

It was big but they don't eat much so I have no problem with them. With out them all other critters would take over. Here is one to calm your nerves.

Is that cute or what. Not sure if you have this one. Would your partner like to come too?

Greetings, Ky.

I don't think that's a bunny

I'm pretty sure that's one of the squibbles cohorts

Its a joey, baby rock wallaby. Whats a squibble?

Definitely not furry enough to be a Tribble (polygeminus grex)

a squibble is the way one of your neighbor's might pronounce this avatar

much much better... might even make up for the spiders...

almost...

I have given up alcohol as of saturday... after a 'discussion' with my brother about drinking and driving.. a practice to which he apparently subscribes... and a further discussion with neices and nephews who said they 'didn't know what to do about it'... I just about blew a gasket...

all to say... that cold beer (counteracting spiders) we have been planning will have to be some thing else cold...

cheers,

best wishes,

chris

My condolences.

And then complaining about dust and the finances, while you need only one sheet of paper.

I didn't include any pictures, but describe a economic way to go:

One roll can last 4 months and 3 days.

What is the lack of after bowl education?

Take gently one, yes 1,sheet of paper and fold it in four.

At the corner you cut one quadrant of circle of about 3/4 of an inch.

When you unfold the paper you find a round hole.

That is why you put your finger through.

Statistically it has been proven that the middle finger works the most effective.

This finger you use to clean everything with- the paper stays in place as high as possible.

Clean well. Now clean the finger with the paper around it and throw that paper in the bowl.

The ones of you that have thrown the cut tip away, are in trouble and need to start over.

This strong 4 fold piece is to clean the remnants from under the nails first. Depending on your further activities, washing your hands may be a next step. I am trying now with the ultra short sheet types. The green ones can try it with a big nettle leaf.

Just use aluminum foil.

A little noisy late at night, but no dust!

I use one of these.

People sensitive to noise and fumes would want to opt for the electric version, which can barely be heard at a distance of a quarter mile. Either version will provide thorough, dust-free cleaning.

Problem Solved:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1wwzwvfsC0

:)

Good work. But, how many millions of $$$$ do those units cost.

You could use a diaper service (to wipe with).

This may not curb the dust/lint problem but at least you would save some trees....

OR speaking of trees, you could plant some waist-high evergreens and walk over them but the neighbors might complain when they snap back upright.

Maybe you're using the wrong product.

Or you could reverse history. In the days of the out house, people used the Sears catalog as a backup. You could use it for the main wipes, and keep the TP wrapped in plastic as your backup. Caution: avoid the slick pages!

I'm off to the warehouse store this morning for yet another giant package of TP.

Before I try any soaking techniques, when I get home I'm going to fire up my compressor with an air blower attached to the end. I will blow off both ends of each roll outside.

I'll make sure to do this in sunlight, so I can get a visual idea of how much dust is on these things. I'll report my findings later today.

Thanks for all the posts.

I have pondered the process for the manufacture of TP (without research), especially the brand with a "thousand sheets" per roll, and have come to the conclusion that the process of winding the sheet involves a vacuum and very sensitive tensioning devices. The roll must begin the process as a much wider roll that is sliced into the final width. Perhaps it is this final width sizing operation that creates the embryonic dust bunnies?

In addition, I have noticed this particular "thousand shites" brand is being processed with added polymers, which may reduce the dust.

Someone should Google this.

I concur. I just went in the bathroom and pulled off some sheets within a beam of sunlight. It's definitely coming from the edges. And yes, I suspect the culprit is the cutting of larger rolls into smaller ones.

At one time I ran the winder in a factory that made rolls of fiberglass backing for roofing shingles.....Picture toilet paper rolls that stand 8' tall on end and about 6' across. The dust bunnies were 3-4' feet around and made of tiny fibers of fiberglass.

DUST BUNNIES FROM HELL!

As requested link

I think the cutting process does introduce large amounts of dust to the end of the roles, you will find it about 41/2 minutes in. The TP shown is the 1000 sheet industrial stuff, consequently the lint is likely to be at a minimum...

Thanks Garthh

You know, I always wanted to know how its done. Especially the pre-cutting of the single sheets. A pity that was only mentioned and not shown. I feel better now.

Thanks Garth, I just noticed you were answering my request.

I wouldn't suggest dust control at the point of origin, as much as that stuff costs now. It still beats chasing sheep around!

Great link! That confirms my suspicion that the dust is on the ends only. (good news)

That cutting saw is the culprit! I just returned home a couple of hours ago with my giant package, (36 rolls) of TP.

What I'm going to do is take a small vacuum cleaner that we have, thoroughly clean the inside and filter, and vacuum each end of all 36 rolls. I will take pictures and post the results. We will all know how much dust comes off from 36 rolls of TP. I think it's going to be substantial.

And everyone that thought my thread was dumb, can kiss my a$$.

Uh....are you going to do this where someone can see you?

Guess who would be blamed for any TP Halloween pranks.

How about modifying a VHS rewinder and adding a vacuum? You could make millions!

No....I have to keep this fairly covert. The neighbors already think I'm a little bit "off".

Almost all paper is made on Fourdrinier machines. All you need to know is here.

http://www.google.ca/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=fourdrinier+paper+manufacturing+process&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=a7248a2e7a166964

Hopefully you guys are still subscribed to this thread.

I completely cleaned out my small vacuum, filters and all. I then vacuumed just the ends of the rolls. This represents 30 rolls, about a months worth. Combine this with the dust that comes off when tearing off the sheets, and I think we're talking some real dust.

Bear in mind, this is Quilted Northern, the no lint brand.

The dust in these pictures is about 1/16 thick on a fresh filter. I had to brush it up slightly so you could see it.

Maybe this wasn't such a dumb thread after all. I think in the future I'm at least going to blow off the rolls with my compressor, before bringing them in.

kramarat,

You have provided positive proof. It appears that the rotary knife used to slice the rolls should be improved upon.

Hey unredundant,

Thanks for looking. I fired up my compressor and blew out the filter a few minutes ago.

I couldn't really capture it on film, but when blowing it out, it broke up the chunks back into individual fibers. Quite impressive, it looked like a cloud of smoke drifting across my front yard. Add to that, the dust from paper towels and kleenex, and I'd almost be willing to challenge the dead skin theory.

Of course I'm still subscribed... this $hit, or rather '$hit paper' is intriguing.

I wonder how much it would be reduced with a dipping treatment?

Regardless, don't think it's enough to challenge the dead skin cell theory though.

Only way to truly find out is to take sample of actual dust bunnies and dissect them. Careful though you might catch the attention of PITDB (People for the Ethical Treatment of Dust Bunnies) doing needles dissection like that simply for the sake of science curiosity.

Hey Java,

The dead skin cell theory doesn't work in my house. I've got a wife and a little girl. The wife uses so much lotion and crap on both of them, I don't think their skin cells could escape. If they do they're getting washed down the tub drain.

The dust in my house is a lot more apparent, since I have no carpet, only hardwood floors. I can pretty much tell with the naked eye that my dust bunnies are made up of lint fibers.

It was a little time consuming to vacuum 30 rolls, for my next experiment I'm going to take my next 36 roll jumbo pack of TP and put it in the dryer on tumble/air only. If the rolls don't come apart, it should be a quick and effective way to remove the dust. Also, the lint trap in the dryer should give a better visual indication of the lint.

I also contacted Northern Quilted, gave them my results, and gave them the link to this thread.

Who knows? Maybe I'll go down in history as, "The father of lint free $hitpaper"

I worked for Johnson&Johnson when they made disposable diapers and the process used what they called felt paper stock which fed into "fritz" mills that deliberately produced the fluffy dust bunny filler for the diapers. It was highly flammable and one production worker won a huge lawsuit for claimed damage to her lungs from the dust.

Maybe you could use this angle when dealing with Northern >cough<.

I'm not looking for a lawsuit. But, I do work in a lot of homes, where the owners never open the windows....ever. My sister is one of them.

It's funny, these people are scared of pollen and dust from outside, but it never occurs to them to think about the stuff they introduce to their closed up homes and are breathing all the time. And then they wonder why their kids have asthma.

The dust released from the TP rolls is light enough to remain airborne for quite some time before settling.

I quit the fiberglass matting factory after one week, it was insane! No one wore particle masks, and the air in there sparkled with fiberglass dust.

The average house air quality is so poor that, if it was a work place and the air was tested, they would shut it down.