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Participant

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Inverters

10/10/2010 10:44 PM

Do they make inverters for single phase motors?

I can not find one anywhere. We are trying to reduce the power consumption on pump motors.

I am told that you can use a 3 phase controller on a single phase motor?

Any help is welcome.

Farang

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#1

Re: Inverters

10/10/2010 11:11 PM
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#4
In reply to #1

Re: Inverters

10/11/2010 10:40 PM

That is not the right way to answer a question, if u don't the answer let others to answer but don't direct the person to a deep sea water.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 12:46 AM

Did you look at any of the links provided by Tornado? Several of them were direct answers to the OP's question!

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 2:29 AM

Are you then a legal lawyer for Tornado ? tell the truth always man.

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#14
In reply to #8

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 9:39 AM

Who are you?????

The ghost guest who walks.........no one knows his identity.

Do you have something to hide............apart from your identity.

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#2

Re: Inverters

10/10/2010 11:35 PM

They are made, but the problem is not the inverter, it is the motors. Inverters can only be used on 2 specific types of single phase motors; PSC (Permanent Split Capacitor) and Shaded Pole. Most single phase motors however are Capacitor Start or Split Phase, neither of which can be controlled with inverters without damaging the motors, the inverters or both.

Just FYI however you cannot use a 3 phase inverter with a single phase motor. I think you are confusing the issue with the fact that you can feed single phase power into many 3 phase inverters and the inverter will convert it to a 3 phase output, but the MOTOR would still need to be 3 phase.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Inverters

10/11/2010 8:41 PM

Most single phase motors however are Capacitor Start or Split Phase, neither of which can be controlled with inverters without damaging the motors, the inverters or both

Well, i am not controlling , i just feed the motor with the AC supply (it is rated to) via the inverter.what is the problem with that ?

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 12:40 AM

In that case, what would be reason for using an inverter? You wouldn't perchance be trying to build some sort of perpetual motion machine?

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 2:26 AM

I mean to run the motor via inverter in case power fail.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 3:19 AM

AH-HA! Now I understand!

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#13
In reply to #7

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 7:49 AM

Ah, in that case why not just use a suitably sized UPS? These are available, of the shelf in virtually any output capacity and runtime that you could possibly need.

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Anonymous Poster
#16
In reply to #13

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 2:32 PM

Excuse my slow understanding, what type of inverter you talking about , according to my poor knowledge i know that inverters are used to invert the DC to AC voltage.

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#22
In reply to #16

Re: Inverters

10/13/2010 3:56 AM

An UPS goes AC→DC→storage battery→DC→AC.

They need power to run, so energy consumption will go up, not down. However, if the power fails, they will keep the load running for as long as the battery lasts.

They do contain inverters, though they are not intended to be used as energy saving devices. To save energy, look elsewhere.

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#20
In reply to #7

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 5:20 PM

Use a UPS then. But you may need to over size it to be capable of starting the motor. Look at the surge capacity of the UPS, and compare that to the Locked Rotor Current of the 1 phase motor.

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#10

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 4:57 AM

Invertek make such an inverter but it is single phase input and single phase output. See http://www.invertek.co.uk/product_optidrive_e21.aspx

Better would be to exchange motor for 3 phase and use a standard inverter to regulate the speed to save energy if the application allows this (reduced flow). You can still use either a single or 3 phase inverter depending on your power supply and the motor supply ratings.

The 3 phase motor will be more efficient than the single phase, and the standard inverter lower cost than the 'single phase' motor version.

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#19
In reply to #10

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 5:18 PM

Invertek's single phase inverters are what I was referring to above. They can ONLY be used on PSC and Shaded Pole motors.

Moot point though, the OP was not referring to speed control.

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#23
In reply to #19

Re: Inverters

10/13/2010 6:51 AM

Yes, the link confirms suitability.

OP mentions energy saving and I stated speed control would be the obvious way to achieve this if application allows.

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#11

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 6:32 AM

In general the use of an inverter for a single phase motor is not recomended. BUT...there exist some possibilities - You can try a 3 phase ordinary drive if the drive can be programmed for the correct output voltage needed for the motor and the output disbalance(phase loss) can be disabled by setting parameters. I have made several such installations with previous generation Mitsubishi FR-S520 drives. Input voltage 230VAC - output 3x230VAC. Connect the single phase motor to any two output terminals and it will work. Please observe that for a 750W motor You may need a 1,5kW drive. Before You do this, check that this is not a vibromotor, but a standard asynchronous one. Good luck.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 7:28 AM

GA

I would add: remove the Capacitor that is in series with the 2nd winding and connect an equivalent resistance (1/cω ) with the adequate power dissipation.Connect the inverter 3 phases on L, N and the resistance end. Finally, parameter the drive to give the adequate voltage output maximum as Motor Nominal volt / √3

Do you think this is OK?

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Anonymous Poster
#15

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 10:55 AM

Excuse my slow understanding, what type of inverter you talking about , according to my poor knowledge i know that inverters are used to invert the DC to AC voltage.

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 3:31 PM

OK! in different countries because of translation the same thing may be called different. I have meant the frequency converter, drive, inverter, German- Umrichter being the same kind of device.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Inverters

10/12/2010 4:01 PM

Thanks, now i understand you mean VFD(Variable Frequency Driver), is that what you mean ?

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#21

Re: Inverters

10/13/2010 3:52 AM

<...trying to reduce the power consumption on pump motors...>

  • Turn them off.
  • Check that they are not over-rated for the hydraulic duty, and change the ones that are.
  • Put them on time-switches or their electronic equivalent: the Building Management System.
  • etc.
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