MF 188 Cooling Problem

With loose terms like "too hot" its kind of hard to give you an idea about the thermodynamics of this engine. But most water cooled engines today have a wax plug thermostat that sets the minimum temperature that the radiator cooling starts to operate. Often these devices get clogged and/or the consistency of the wax degrades over time so that they open at hotter temperatures. I would first try running your machine with this thermostat removed to see how hot you engine gets, at least a temporary run this way. If the engine runs now at an acceptable temperature or more than likely too cool for efficient use then the cooling system is more than adequate for the thermal load. Get a new thermostat. This is your most likely problem. IMHO

Another common cause of an internal combustion engine running too hot is that the engine is running too lean in fuel consumption.

Now if a slightly inadequate cooling system really is your problem you might try a product like Waterwetter® by Redline. I've seen this stuff work on a NASCAR engine that had no thermostat and that was previously running just straight water. (I was consulted on some diagnostic instrumentation applications.) The air temperature leaving the radiator was higher and the fluid coolant temperature leaving the radiator was lower. I will admit it was less than the thirty degree F the manufacturer claimed possible but I seem to remember a respectable difference in the low twenties degree F for the coolant temperature drop.

Thanks Redfred,

You are awakening some past memories. I think that, when I changed the water pump about 18 months ago, I did think of removing the thermostat but, I can't remember if I did! I have a feeling I would more likely have drilled a hole in the side and replaced it but, I will check this!

I like the idea of Waterwetter and, on those lines, I was thinking of 'good old' Radflush! I can imagine that, in the tractors long life, the rad may well have been filled from a muddy dyke!

Many thanks for your contribution! Oh, and a GA too!

We have the same problem here in Arizona.

My guess is that over the years the radiator has accumulated mineral deposits on the tubes which reduces the thermal transfer efficiency of the system.

Either have the current radiator repaired, or find a thicker radiator with more rows of tubes. This gives you more liquid capacity and more thermal transfer surfaces.

A different fan would require more power to drive it.

Another item which would help, but not be stock, would be a coolant recovery system. This is an overflow tank that keeps the radiator full of water so no air can enter the system. These are found on most newer vehicles and are available as an add-on for older vehicles.

Had a Massey Harris back on the farm 40 years ago before they were bought out by the English.

Good luck.

Hi KJK

You have a very valid point but for the fact that I am well familiar with the capabilities of an MF 188 as it was a tractor I used a lot in the UK back in the early '70s.

The difference between then and now is not my expectations of the tractor, it's just the ambient temp here in QLD.

I really don't want to do any of the mod's that you yourself tried and your post has been helpful to convince me that it wouldn't be a good move.

To start with I optimistically waited for a cooler day but, unfortunately, we just don't get any here.

All food for thought though!

Thanks!

Use a rad from a diesel truck engine and put an electric fan behind it.

I see the problem/s have been covered allas there Is a Tropical Fan blade available for this model with 6 blades Instead of the std 3 blade. Which may Improve cooling also I have seen many after market even genuine water pumps having excessive tolerance between the impellor to housing resulting In severe overheating when worked hard. I would remove the water pump also and measure the impellor to housing with a feeler guage.

Hey Beej, I have not gotten to call in yet but next time through, I will make it a point to stop and say g'day. With regards to the heating issue, there are dozens in Ingham I used to service as the Massey mechanic for the dealer. There was an issue with the 188 getting hot and having low power to boot. The older 178 would out pull the 188 until I had about 5 of them apart and went through the Spill timing of the engine. I discovered the cam shaft gearing was timing marked a tooth out. Not every one in the district was effected but there was about 20 overall that displayed the same symptoms. Apparently a disgruntled sacked employee got his own back on the company by mis-punching the cam shaft gear 1 tooth retarded. After I check and done remarking the correct tooth, the engine ran and performed as specified. I have never has any of these engines run 'Hot' unless the radiator was full of mud or the thermostat failed. Check the Fuel Spill Timing to see if the cam is out. Let me know if you got one of the suspect machines.

Les

Hi Tecmate

Of course, you are very welcome to drop in any time (although you would have a devil of a job to find our farm in the bush).

What you have eluded to could possibly be the problem as, besides the cooling problem, I have noticed that the expected power from the MF 188 is not there! This is of slightly less importance as I do not have a particularly heavy work load for her!

What worries me is that I don't have the gear to check the spill timing accurately and I can't remember the procedure to do it either. It must be 35 years since I was at Ag Eng college in the UK!

If you could give me a basic (simple) Procedure to perhaps confirm/eliminate this worrying possibility, I would be extremely grateful.

Perhaps if you could leave me your number in my mailbox.........in fact, I will leave you my numbers in your mailbox.

Many thanks for your contribution! Oh and a GA too!

Hey Beej, tried to find you yesterday morning, but no one I spoke to could place you in Childers, on my trip back from Brisbane. I do not have your phone number so I could not phone you. Could you send me your Phone and Location address. I passed through on my way to Bundy. Send details to my email tecmate@bigpond.com and I will find your place after I get back from WA. I had the Perkins workshop manual with me to lend to you to do the spill timing. The timing takes about 4 to 5 hours to pull the Fan, front Crank-Shaft pulley and timing cam gear and replace. A Gasket or gasket paper to cut and punch, and possibly a new crank oil seal may be required if the front crank seal is leaking. By the way, the P4-148 is a good engine and I miss typed the 178 should have been the 168 which is a P4-136.

Rorschach, All good advice except the anti freeze. A 50-50 mixture is about as strong as i would go.

Actually since freezing is not his problem, but boiling is, a pure Ethylene Glycol will provide the maximum boiling prevention, it will also avoid the issue of mineral deposits.

....but does not cool as well (and he has an overheating problem).......as a proper mixture of water and antifreeze does.....or even as well as water alone does.....but water alone is not good for many other reasons....

I recently worked on a friends Mitsubishi Fuso with overheating problems. The water pump is $300 and the radiator is $1,100, so I tried all the cheap stuff first. Does the cooling system hold pressure? How much pressure? The FUSO tested at 16 LBS. If it has even a slow leak, the water will boil if it has a place to de-pressurize. You can overheat an engine quickly, and even warp and crack the head from something as simple as a small insignificant leak anywhere in the cooling system, that vents to atmosphere or one of the cylinders. This is the truth. If it is holding pressure, then take a look at the radiator cap. Are there any cracks in the rubber sealing ring? An air leak can develop there and the coolant will simply travel to and from the overflow reservoir, and you would never know, except for a hot running engine. Next up is the thermostat. Is it opening fully? You simply will never know unless you put it into a metered pot of heated water. The opening temperature should be stamped on the thermostat itself. Watch the gauge-when that temperature is reached, carefully take the thermostat out of the water with tongs and check for a full open condition. How about the fan clutch? I noticed when I gassed the engine while warm the fan would spool up then suddenly and quickly fade. I replaced the fan clutch, the thermostat, and the radiator cap. I didn't even bother testing the thermostat, because the vehicle is quite old. The radiator cap had many cracks in it. I also spent 2 weeks flushing the cooling system. I ran coolant cleaner through it, then flushed it out a total of 9 times, until the water came out clean. With these things the vehicle now runs cooler than it ever has, even with the A/C on with a load and going up a steep hill. It never goes too far over even the "normal" mark. Take my advice for what it is worth. Your tractor was designed to work all around the world with nary a cooling problem. If you follow my advice you still have an issue, your radiator is clogged or your water pump is cavitating or not flowing properly. Failing that, check your ignition and ignition components with a stroboscopic timing light. My guess is the cooling system, though.

I thought Lynlynch had some good points and so did someone with the timing pulley, but if neither of these things help, just add a second smaller radiator and an electric fan.

Do keep the thermostat as it helps with warming up on cold days......as well as keeping a stable temperature when running.....provided enough cooling is available of course.

WARNING!

Do not use more than the correct amount of antifreeze as in fact antifreeze has many jobs, one is to prevent corrosion, another is to lubricate some water pumps, but too much will actually reduce the cooling effect as it does not transfer heat as quickly as water does......plus antifreeze has another bad habit of finding small holes and leaking through them.....so do keep the mixture correct will keep that effect to a minimum.....

you don't want to run straight coolant for two reasons, one the heat exchange rate for straight coolant is poor, and two straight coolant can gell up and restrict the radiator and bottom of cyls in the block, if you decide to run anything other then a 50/50 of a non silicone base coolant. use redline water wetter and or other anticorrosion additive, use water wetter to prevent hot spots in jackets pitting them and starting another host of problems, use a clean radiator with as large a fan as will fit and if needed put a electric in front of the radiator and third slow down as in prior post, loading a diesel too hard will start a heat problem in hot climates that can be very hard to eliminate, when peugeots came to the united states we had a devil of a time getting them to stay cool pulling steep mouintains in the summer.

Sincerely
Mitch ret peugeot mech