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Guru
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Bean Counters and Safety

11/07/2010 8:44 AM

This must have happened to others on the board, I'll just recount one to start the ball rolling.

A company I worked for, for over ten years had a near fatality. The guy was working on a circa 1960's MCC. A "Live Terminal" protective cover had been removed from a starter panel and not replaced. Through shear bad luck he touched one of the terminals to earth with a screwdriver. You can imagine the fireworks! The protection didn't see the fault so the fireworks continued. It didn't stop until he knocked the screwdriver out with a wooden chair. Only then did he go for first aid. Severe burns to his face, chest and hands, his eyes only survived due to his glasses.

While he was off work I got involved. I was asked for a quick solution that would satisfy the HSE.

First thing I did was look at the protection and the supply cabling to the individual starters. 1200A ACB feeding 2" x ¼" aluminium busbars with 6mm aluminium singles from the bars feeding each drive cubical.

To be honest I went ballistic! I've seen some crap in my time but this was the worst I've ever come across. Cheap and nasty didn't come in to it.

Quick idea, there were lots of spare cubicle's so use one for a small drive group MCCB supply along with upgrading the cubical supplies. Plant management went overboard with the idea, so much so it went straight forward as safety suggestion of the month.

Now involve the group "Senior Authorised Person", "you can't do that, it will set a precedent for all other MCC's in the company". Safety suggestion revoked! It would cost to much.

What price safety!

At the end of the day it was the crap design that saved the lad, it limited the fault current.

All I could do was reduce the ACB O/L to 750A and write a disclaimer (for myself) in the event of any further incident.

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Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

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#1

Re: Bean Counters and Safety.

11/07/2010 11:13 AM

A colleague and friend of mine had a similar occurrence working for one of the local power utilities. (It wasn't me, really. So I cannot go into the details of the safety faux pas.) But he included the liability insurance company in his initial report on the safety improvement suggestions. Similarly to your story a corporate bean counter seeing the $X expense vetoed the one time only improvements as being too costly. Once the insurance company heard that the safety improvements were vetoed, they offered the company two options. The insurance company would pay part of the expense for the safety improvement to be done or the liability insurance monthly fee would likely increase by $X. Also if the safety improvement wasn't done, the company would have to find another insurance company in the next contract cycle.

The veto was overridden. The safety improvements with the insurance company money aiding the upgrade was accomplished. Also within the year a lavish retirement party for the bean counter was held.

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Guru
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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Bean Counters and Safety.

11/07/2010 2:15 PM

They should have given him a leaden parachute instead.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Bean Counters and Safety.

11/08/2010 12:24 AM

I would of given him a pair of cement overshoes

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Bean Counters and Safety.

11/08/2010 12:40 AM

I did check, but it would not [hOFe] given him more protection during an electrical incident...

Does size matter?

W.

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Guru
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#9
In reply to #4

Re: Bean Counters and Safety.

11/08/2010 1:52 PM

" Does size matter? "

My wife says "no".

But my ex-wife said "yes".

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Guru

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#5

Re: Bean Counters and Safety

11/08/2010 1:22 AM

The owner of a company I worked for in India was always ready for cost savings - I think it was in his blood.

But the instant I told him, 'this is a safety thing' he would just tell me, 'OK - do it'. At that point cost was not so important any more - all of us respected him for that outlook.

Russ

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Guru

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#6

Re: Bean Counters and Safety

11/08/2010 7:17 AM

It does not matter what industry we are operating in safety is just a BUZZ WORD to some degree. If it costs money find a way around it. If it involves discipline for some minor perceived inaction then lay the law down and document it for the records. Bring in the authorities and you are on a hit list. Even the so called authorities can be so stupid at times since they do not actually work in the environment. In every case where I worked with a good H&S officer and they sided with the worker in no time they were let go. Of course the reason was something totally unrelated. I worked in several Provinces in Canada and the ministry of Labour could be so stupid it was hard to even carry on a discussion with them. They seemed to be in another world and most of them were recent grads with no concept to the real facts. One young engineer with the Ministry did not even know the proper use of a belt grinder which was ok but not ok was the refusal to accept any documents that contradicted her preconceived notions. Glad to be retired but still very concerned for the work force.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Bean Counters and Safety

11/08/2010 7:39 AM

With an attitude like yours I am glad you are retired as well!

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Guru

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Bean Counters and Safety

11/08/2010 2:41 PM

Dear Guest: If stating facts based on 40 yrs. experience is bad attitude then I will keep that attitude and pass it on to anyone that wishes to complete their working career with all fingers,toes, and body in fairly good shape. In all the companies I worked for in that time we had 6 fatalities and many workers crippled . There was no need for any of these serious incidents. May your eyes be opened to new possibilities.

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Guru
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#8

Re: Bean Counters and Safety

11/08/2010 8:55 AM

Why was the electrician working live?

Where was the Permit to Work system? Where was the electrician's lock-off padlock?

Why did the circuit protective device not operate and what would be the consequences of a repeat occurrence? A fire at the premises? A loss of turnover? A fatality? A prosecution from the Health & Safety Executive?

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Guru
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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Bean Counters and Safety

02/07/2011 7:26 PM

All you're got to read is the first post. Bad design!

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