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What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/11/2010 1:50 PM

I understand that the EPA told BP to stop using Corexit and BP basically gave them the finger so, my questions are:

a) Why did the EPA try to stop the use of Corexit

b) How does Corexit benefit the enviroment

c) How did BP get away with using it after EPA told them to stop

d) Is it still being used

Tks Gary

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#1

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/11/2010 2:51 PM

a. Corexit is highly poisonous, it only makes sense an organiztion that seeks to protect the environment would want to protect the sea from it.

b. It doesn't. It's a solvent used to break up oil slicks. Other than that, it's hazardous, not helpful.

c. Once the EPA found out about it, they gave BP a 24 hour ultimatum to change the solvent. They changed it to a more modern version of the Corexit, namely Corexit 9500, which had a low toxicity to humans, and would consume the oxygen in the sea.

d. Yes, the Corexit 9500 is still being used.

-Mizuti

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#2

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/11/2010 6:40 PM
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#3

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/11/2010 11:26 PM

Mizuti is not just wrong, but frankly doesn't know jack.

Corexit is NOT toxic, it's primary ingredients are lanolin and glycerin. it is essentially a liquified version of "go jo" or "goop" hand cleaner which is the same stuff that is used to "de-oil" wildlife and birds. I've used it (Goop) on my cats when the skin oil is so thick that washing them is impossible without problems.

Why did the EPA halt it's use? because Obama wanted to MAKE SURE that the mess was as bad as it could possibly be in order to justify destroying the offshore oil industry so that we had to buy more of our oil from his muslim friends int he middle east. To date, there has not been a single permit issued for a deep water rig, and exceedingly few shallow water permits have been issued as well.

BP did not "change to Corexit 9500" they were using it all along. what corexit does is break the oil up into much smaller droplets which therefore increase the surface area allowing naturally existing bacteria to more effectively eat the oil and allow the wave action to emulsify it. it is these bacteria that deplete oxygen in the water.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 2:45 AM

Ah Rorschach, reading your previous posts, I had come to think of you as basing your comments on sound logic and available data....

...but then I read your comment above...'Corexit is NOT toxic'

Just because a primary ingredient is shared with products of low toxicity, does not confer low toxicity to Corexit.

Scientific American definitely disagrees with your appraisal

'And there is no doubt that dispersants are toxic: Both types of the dispersal compound COREXIT used in the Gulf so far are capable of killing or depressing the growth'

They even have linked references to the EPA to back up their claim...

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#11
In reply to #4

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 2:07 PM

SciAm is written by a bunch of liberals that have never worked a day in industry (ANY industry!) and frankly don't know jack either.

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#9
In reply to #3

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 1:54 PM

I did a little more than a basic Google search to find that you're mostly right. It would seem the more visited sites would have you believe that the Corexit is an evil, vile chemical that will cause chaos and the fire will rain down from heaven, etc.

The only real potential danger from using it I found is when BP air sprayed it onto the ocean, potentially causing collateral damage from ocean winds bringing it on shore, hurting the crops. I also found out that of the dispersants available, Corexit is the most toxic, but that's relative and is still significantly smaller than that of the oil itself.

Something interesting I found out is the use of Corexit is actually banned in the UK entirely. Waht bothers me, if it's perfectly safe to use, why would they ban it?

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#12
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 2:10 PM

The EU bans lead based solder too leading to problems of tin whiskers shorting things out after a while too, even though there has never been a documented case of anyone being harmed by tin-lead solder. Proof that intelligence is not required to work for a government or quasi-governmental entity. Often just the opposite is true.

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#5

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 4:41 AM

Not that Wikipedia is totally reliable, but it does not agree with the lanolin/glycerin characterization of Corexit.

The line about Obama and his "Muslim friends" strikes me as total conspiracy-theory bull$h!t.

That said, I'm not sure about any blanket prohibition of offshore drilling.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 8:18 AM

I did a little looking around and found this;

"The decision, first reported in the Washington Post, comes only hours after Congress heard devastating testimony from BP executives and scientists on the high toxicity of two forms of Corexit, and their relative ineffectiveness against the type of crude now polluting the Gulf. The two versions of the chemical being used on the spill are banned in the UK because they are damaging to sealife" Wait a minute isn't BP a UK company?

Rorschach, I didn't write this to p anyone off or be anti-oil but, if one product doesn't work then shouldn't we and BP be open to finding one that at least is less harmful. We can't forget that the gulf is not just oil it's shrimp and fish and a play area for kids, remember what cajun shrimp taste like co's if we don't resolve this our kids won't

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#14
In reply to #5

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 2:18 PM

Tornado, follow the money is usually a good rule of thumb. if we can't drill or produce here, it has to come from somewhere, obviously that is the middle east for the most part. this has put us at the mercy of opec even more than we were before.

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#18
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 9:16 PM

Okay, let's just follow one particular pile of money--oil money. The preservation of this money stream could/would/does give oil companies enormous incentive to soft-pedal any problems about using their choice of dispersants. According to "follow-the-money" logic, this "proves"... well, it doesn't prove much at all.

The composition given was not exactly lanolin and glycerin, but anyway it didn't look terrlbly toxic (though one might wonder about the percentage of light petroleum distillates, as well as secondary effects once combined with crude oil).

I have no personal dogs in this fight, other than to observe who uses the goofiest propaganda to make a case. "Obama's Muslim buddies" versus "Dubya's oil buddies." A pox on both houses, I suppose.

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#7

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 11:46 AM

The contents of Corexit 9500 are as follows:

CAS #

Name

Common Day-to-Day Use Examples

1338-43-8 Sorbitan, mono-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate Skin cream, body shampoo, emulsifier in juice
9005-65-6 Sorbitan, mono-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate, poly(oxy-1,2-ethanediyl) derivs. Baby bath, mouth wash, face lotion, emulsifier in food
9005-70-3 Sorbitan, tri-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate, poly(oxy-1,2-ethanediyl) derivs Body/Face lotion, tanning lotions
577-11-7 * Butanedioic acid, 2-sulfo-, 1,4-bis(2-ethylhexyl) ester, sodium salt (1:1) Wetting agent in cosmetic products, gelatin, beverages
29911-28-2 Propanol, 1-(2-butoxy-1-methylethoxy) Household cleaning products
64742-47-8 Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light Air freshener, cleaner
111-76-2 ** Ethanol, 2-butoxy Cleaners

* Contains 2-Propanediol

** This chemical component (Ethanol, 2-butoxy-) is NOT included in the composition of COREXIT 9500, is an ingredient in COREXIT 9527.

It is NOT toxic. It is in fact the dispersant that the EPA RECOMMENDED for oil spills.

BTW CAS# 29911-29-2 is also known as isoproyl alcohol.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 1:19 PM

More on the toxicity of Corexit 9500

http://www.nalco.com/news-and-events/4285.htm

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/05/corexit-hazards-versus-washing-laundry.php

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#23
In reply to #7

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/18/2010 3:02 AM

Listing the chemicals as being used for cleaners or in suntan lotion proves nothing about the toxicity.

Are these chemicals known or probable carcinogens? What is the ld50? What are the risks of exposure?

Just off hand, in the obfuscation presented, i don't feel familiar enough with most of these to stick my neck out without upgrading my brain base...

... most, except 2-butoxyethanol. I'm a gambling man and i'll wager my recollection serves me well in recalling the nasty nature of this stuff. I think most agree it causes cancer in lab animals, but not everyone agree it causes cancer in people. i'm pretty sure it must be disclosed as a (suspected) cancer causing substance in a couple us states.

i doubt scientific american had any hand in the studies that led the states to these decisions.... but i am anxious to see your next imaginative response...

:-)

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/18/2010 9:23 AM

Try doing a little research on your own. I gave you all the tools you need to do your own investigation instead of relying on me, but since you are apparently either too lazy to do your own research I have done some more for you.

Chemical NameCommon nameCommon Day-to-Day Use Examples
Sorbitan, mono-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate

Sorbitan Oleate

Skin cream, body shampoo, emulsifier in juice
Sorbitan, mono-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate, poly(oxy-1,2-ethanediyl) derivs.

Polysorbate 80

Baby bath, mouth wash, face lotion, emulsifier in food
Sorbitan, tri-(9Z)-9-octadecenoate, poly(oxy-1,2-ethanediyl) derivs

Polysorbate 85

Body/Face lotion, tanning lotions
* Butanedioic acid, 2-sulfo-, 1,4-bis(2-ethylhexyl) ester, sodium salt (1:1)

Docusate Sodium

Wetting agent in cosmetic products, gelatin, beverages
Propanol, 1-(2-butoxy-1-methylethoxy)

DOWANOL DPnB

Household cleaning products
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light

Deodorized Kerosene

Air freshener, cleaner
** Ethanol, 2-butoxy

Butyl Glycol

Cleaners
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#25
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/25/2010 10:46 PM

this copy and paste without reference to LD50 nor any other useful data on toxicity is 'research'???

wow.

. . . no really. impressive. . . . . .

that a compound is used as a cleaner or used in suntan lotion is evidence to you of low toxicity is beyond astounding.

that, upon being shown the shortsightedness of statements, you continue to cling stubbornly and then resort to ad hominem attacks, is beginning to seem consistent for you.

sad.

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#26
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/26/2010 11:11 AM

You didn't bother with the links either obviously. Here is your problem. you have decided that the stuff is horribly toxic and you refuse to even entertain the idea that it might not be. It doesn't fit with your outrage and agenda so any information counter to your beliefs is discarded. Your biases are showing pretty badly there.

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#10

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 2:05 PM

As to the ban that is still in effect:

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2010/12/08/after-the-drilling-ban-a-drilling-ban-remains/

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#13
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 2:11 PM

Wow, good link.

This is probably one of the most childish ways to deal with drilling in the gulf. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't BP have a pretty dismal safety record? So, because of their folly, the rest of the oil industry suffers, which has a trickle down effect on everyone. Great.

Could you imagine if this policy was incorporated into CR4? "Someone posted something vulgar, shut 'er down."

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 2:21 PM

The most common analogy around here is so an airliner crashed because one airline failed to maintain it's aircraft, so lets ground ALL of them while we decide what to do.

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#16
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 2:29 PM

The Obama Admin is playing "move the goalposts". they issue regulations, without following the legally mandated procedure to do so, and then when the oil companies move to comply, they issue another one starting the process all over.

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#17
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/12/2010 8:46 PM

I love your posts on this subject. Especially about stopping drilling here so we "must" buy more foreign oil. Sounds like the stopping of logging in many parts of the US, so we have to buy Canadian lumber,etc.

OK, I"ll bite, who is John Galt, I am too lazy to look him up......

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#21
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/13/2010 11:02 AM

John Galt will be our (economic) savior! =b

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#19
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/13/2010 12:19 AM

I was talking with a mate of mine about this very topic, "following the legally mandated procedure", he pointed out that he felt this was a very confusing subject. His reasoning was that when Bush and Halliburton Cheney came to power, they brought in ex NJ Governor Christie Whitman to head the EPA and, as was the policy of that particular administration to allow all industries to police themselves in this case the chemical/oil industry then she left.

My initial interpretation is that we have an administration like Wyatt Earp entering Dodge City coming into an industry that has had eight years of basically "no rules" as they did with Wall street and the real estate market. As usual industry tries to get away with as much as it can, I mean look at Halliburton, they knew that there concrete was crap. That's why 11 days before the blow they paid 220 million for Boots n Coots, just like the self policed banking industry they wanted to hedge there bets and make a profit from causing the problem and for fixing it. Ain't it a beech, just look at the profits these gas companies have been making lately, you'd think they would put a little more into responsible research eh.

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#20
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/13/2010 10:55 AM

Ya RR that's the way it's coming down, Halliburton is going to be blamed and BP is off the hook, just coincidental that BP was the ONLY major to support this administration. I bet after talking about this you and your 'mate' went to the 'real' cause of 9-11, don't worry old Wyatt is going to clean that up too for you just like he did in Chicago.

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#22
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Re: What is Corexit and How Does It Help Disperse Oil in gulf

12/13/2010 12:53 PM

Charlie was it just the dems or did BP throw a couple of bucks to the repubs as well, where do you think the buck should fall and why? Also how should our country go forward as far as offshore wells I would really appreciate your feedback.

As far as 9/11 goes well, I spent 3 weeks down by the hole calling in for supplies and sending runners to the hole with water food and masks also worked the comfort tents, do you know what it's like to see grown men cry because they found a friends body so I hope they do get the right mudder pluckers that did it.

Me, I know we need oil and I have no problem taking out of the gulf but for heavens sake mate lets put the environment and safety before the buck. This is why I personally feel we need to have a certain amount of policing of industry to stop the greed and that "it's all about me and my pocket mentality" held by some of those higher up the food chain at least at the corporate level

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