Ford Turbo Problems?

If Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe explore the car discussions, and turn up many folks in a similar position,...class action?

Hi - don't know who those guys are but , maybe. The thing is that some documentation has to be aquired. thnx D/

I believe they work with/for the tappet brothers.

I catch them on NPR on Saturday mornings.

Sorry to hear about your turbo problem. Without a warranty in effect, repair/reimbursement will be a problem.

Ha ha I'm a little slow sometimes but I'm steady. d/

Good luck. Out of warranty doesn't leave you much legal standing unless you can prove that there was a known flaw that was denied by the manufacturer of the turbocharger.

Hi- you are probably right. Time to find out if the talk is true. Thnx d/

Navistar has been the manufacturer of stock diesel engines in Ford trucks for a number of years. . . . .

Ford actually sued Navistar in 2007 for costs incurred due to numerous problems with diesel engines over a number of years (i believe 2005 was one of the years).

. . . . Getting Ford to admit they knew about defects should be easy since that was the basis of their legal claim.

That might give you a fighting chance, but I doubt getting reimbursed (outside of the warrantee period) will be easy, quick, or pleasant.

Best of luck!

Hi- -thanks for the info. Still don't know what's what here but I'm looking and listening and all info is greatly appreciated. TAG d/

Don't know exactly what you mean when you say it exploded. Turbos don't take to well to being shut down after a hot run right away , good practice is to let the engine idle for a minute or two before shutdown to allow the turbo and the oil to cool down otherwise the heat cokes the oil on the turbo bearings and eventually results in their demise. You did always follow that procedure right?

h

Well, here's exactly what happened. I was towing my 29' TT up a hill and there was a sound like a stick of dynamite and a big black cloud came out from under the hood. I got it off the road and called AAA. The tow truck could only pull one thing so I unhooked and managed to get the truck to the next town. It wasn't too bad on the straight but any grade up I was doing 5mph and laying a big black exhaust trail. It took a week for repair and they said we were lucky it didn't wipe out the engine. That would have been 20 grand or so. I documented everything and asked Dearborn to reimburse me and I'll bet you know that answer. By the way, the trailer is the same one I pulled with my 2000 Chevy 5.3. It weighs under 8k loaded. thnx d/

I have to ask- Did You see the turbo after the explosion sound? My landlord had this happen twice while towing a big travel trailer on different trips about a year apart. The first time he found the hose on the intercooler had blown off and he put it back on. The second time, same thing. We decided the hose clamp was now over torqued and bought a new hose. Hose was updated design and fit better. End of problem. His turbo was never damaged. I'm just wondering if you actually got to inspect your parts after the repair was made.

Hi - no I didn't see the parts after the Ford garage examined it. They reported that the turbo was totally ruined and it was lucky not to destroy the engine. But I didn't think to ask to inspect myself. The Ford garage in Eureka, CA. seems to have a very good reputation from talking to the people in the waiting room and around. Anyhow, done is done. Thanks for your input. d/

Really good point, had it happen to me on several cars, several times (always the same engine type!).....you end up with about 10 BHP!!!

Once I was pulling a caravan (with GREAT difficulty!!).

The fix was to clean both the Turbo and the inside of the rubber hose with a special cleaning fluid, to make sure all traces of oil were removed completely, or they blow off again and again....both bits MUST be "squeaky clean"!! Don't ask me what the fluid was, Mitsubishi did the work....

Since the special cleaning (2007) my present car has not had the problem again.....

This happened to me once on the highway, sounded like a tire blowout. I limped about 4 miles (drawing unfiltered dirty engine air directly into the turbo) to the closest auto parts store for a new clamp. I ended up replacing all the hose clamps with better ones.

I had a friend with a VW turbo diesel. After a trip to the body shop for some front end damage, the car would not run worth crap. After filter changes solved nothing, some serious looking revealed the clamp off of the inter-cooler allowing boost to push the hose away.

One hose realignment and a hose clamp improved the car dramatically.

Tanks, Maybe?

GA

Many people either never read the handbook with regards to Turbos or the manufacturer forgot to put it in......

That is ALWAYS needed if you want a good lifetime from a Turbo......

I have owned many cars with a Turbo (6 or 7), as the mechanic once said to me, that should be the last part that ever needs changing - if you treat it right. I have never had one replaced as I always let them cool down before switching off...

Treating right is also only using oils for Turbo usage as required by the vehicle manufacturer. Which is why I personally would never go to "Jiffy Lube" or similar.....who the hell knows what they use......My last 3 Turbos were all required to have "LongLife III oil", which is synthetic. I can honestly say that I have always used Synthetic for all vehicles since about 1989.....

My first Diesel Turbo was bought in around 1987, but I used a normal oil recommended for Turbos and got almost 400,000 Kms before selling the car, still running and starting as good as new......

If you want to see why Synthetic Motor oil is so good for Turbos, heat up a piece of clean aluminium with a blow torch from below. Put a few drops of synthetic on the plate, watch.

Then put a few drops of normal non synthetic motor oil on. See the difference? Thats what killed your Turbo most likely.....

Need I say more?

I bought the truck new and the dealer said to not use synthetic until it had 50k. Well I switched to full synthetic at 30k and always is serviced at my dealer. Yes it's possible I could have done something different or better but how picky should it be. This is a big hunky truck not a delicate flower. My friends with diesels, all makes, don't have problems and are not as near dedicated to service as I have been. This might be a single incident but I don't think so. Great chatting with you. Thanks for your input. d/

I get the impression from other users that Ford cannot build reliable diesels in the USA. Maybe you should eventually go for another make.

European Ford Diesel engines just seem to work, though they relied for some years on buying VW motors.....till their own worked as it should....

Mitsubishi had a good but old fashioned diesel, but nowadays they install VW motors in the normal cars (I have one) and reserve their own motor for 4WD cars......

I think the problem stems from USA's obsession with horsepower and having the biggest and fastest. The Ford 6.0 was built by International Harvester and similar versions are used in most medium sized International commercial vehicles you'll see traveling the North American roads. The IH 6.0 is offered in 3 versions all of which are significantly "less" powerful then the Ford version. I'm sure Ford wanted to remain competitive with with Dodge and Chevy so they pushed more out of the engine then they should have. This could also explain why the Ford 6.0L E series vans make less power then the equally equipt F series trucks.

My F-350 6.0 had received a factory retune limiting the boost to 20psi from (I believe) 24psi.

The first reply to the question posted at the link below details the causes of, as well as preventative strategies for, problems common to Ford Navistar diesels.

The link is not showing. The forum is Powerstroke. I'm sure if you search 'ford navistar 6.0 problems' at the Powerstroke site, you will find the posting....it begins with someone asking advice about purchasing a motorhome with this engine...

Thanks, I'll give it a try. d/

49k on a 2005 wow did you expect it to last forever,

http://cr4.globalspec.com/search/sitesearch?do=show&sort=textmatchrank&srch=ford%20turbo&order=asc

YUP!

Sorry to say the 6.0 is a money pit. I've been reading the Diesel mags since they came out. I own a 93 & 95 Dodge Cummins Diesel pickups. Inlines engines are easier to work on too and the Cummins are bulletproof. The only thing to watch out for on a pre electronic Cummins (early 98 and older 12 valve) is a dowel pin on the front timing cover can work it's way loose over time and get into the engine. If your unlucky it doesn't fall into the oil pan without getting in the front gears you may need a new engine block or major front gearcase work. It can be prevented with a bolt and washer if the front timing cover is removed. It's called the killer dowel pin.

The 6.0 engine has flaws in its design caused by pollution control equipment complications. It was also lightened so is delicate as the replacement 6.4 gained a lot of weight. It also wasn't designed to be chipped or souped up , like many people try to do to them. The fixes in the mags look like they will cost thousands too and how long will they last!

There is even a site dedicated to swapping Cummins 5.9 's into 6.0 Ford trucks. It is done to others (Ford 7.3 and GM Diesels) too as they had complicated/weak engines too. You can buy kits. The later 6.4 is supposed to be a much improved engine , and is now replaced with a Ford designed 6.7. One problem with the Fords is you have to pull the cab to do most engine work.

From all I read I would either swap the engine to the Cummins preferably non-electronic or sell the truck before it costs big $ more in engine repairs. You could sell your engine for not a bad price while it's running since it has low miles. With the turbo problem it won't be long till you have a major engine problem. The turbo's problem will have weakened something and the problems will continue. There are big EGR cooler problems and head gaskets go too, probably from overheating when problems start.

I think you could find a good running Cummins engine for the same price. It may have more miles , but if they are well looked after they are good for over 1 million miles no problem. Use synthetics in the engine trans and differentials. The 6.0 engine is lucky to reach 100,000 miles without a major problem.

The other of course is to sell yours, but instead of new buy an older Dodge with the Cummins 97 or older as they are the most bulletproof having no electronics on the fuel injection. The also get better mileage. If you want newer the 2004-05 common rail are better than the earlier electronic engines. The later 6.7 's are harder on fuel and more money to fix because of pollution equipment. The latest trucks are heavier and harder on fuel because of all the pollution control equipment. They also cost big $ for parts. Price out injectors!

For that reason if you must buy new and don't tow heavy loads a lot it's probably cheaper to run a gas truck. Maybe natural gas is a good cheap alternative somehow.

I should also say a friend with a garage has seen lots of problems. So have friends who have had them. Another friend working at the local Ford dealership spends most of his time working on them. He hates having to pull the cab off too, because Ford won't pay the mechanics for the extra labour.

On another Ford Rant, my Father has a 96 T-Bird which had a leaky intake manifold which took out the 4.6. Ford wouldn't help even though it was a known problem. All the garages know about it. It cost $5,500 +. in 2001

They say the 1999-2005 2V 4.6's in cars and trucks have a problem with popping out spark plugs because they only used 4 threads. If it's fixed properly by pulling the heads and installing aluminum inserts from Ford, the problem is fixed for good. Try pulling the heads on a Ford truck without removing the cab though. Garage friend owner confirmed this.

To Ford's credit if the 4.6 is looked after and treated nicely, it's such a good engine it will easly reach 500,000 miles without showing any wear. Probably good for close to a million miles! They were way overbuilt for heavy duty police, taxi, pickup truck and performance use. The stock block is said to be good for more than 800 HP!

Well I think you are right about a lot of this. We own a 94 Dodge TD that our kids have had up in Alaska for 4 years and it has 320k miles on it. They're thinking of getting a new one, but I'm going to show them your comments, it might change their minds. Thanks a bunch. d/

Even more than the cool-down issue, I understand that when the engine is shut off, no more oil is fed to the turbo. It turns at high speed, takes a while to coast down, and wears the bearings without oil circulation. Both of these factors are detrimental.

The Turbos are built so that if they are cooled down correctly, enough oil remains in the bearing for correct lubrication for several seconds.

Generally 2-4 seconds is enough for them to stop FROM TICKOVER, where most Turbos are barely turning over at between 1 - 5,000 RPM. Which is considered to be barely moving!! Some reach 250,000 RPM in normal usage.

Are you a "Blip-Idiot" as many are?

What is a "Blip-Idiot"?.....that is someone who "Blips" the engine. Especially dangerous when starting and when stopping.......that kills some engines and a lot of Turbos.....

Starting and stopping an engine should be done with no throttle. If it needs throttle to start, then its either worn or wrongly adjusted or both.

That, and on start-up, the turbo has spooled up before the oil has arrived. That's why it's most important to use good oil. It tends to hang around on the bearing surfaces after the drain-down during heat-soak when the engine is turned off.

Stu.

I've got the same year truck with same engine. I'm on the 2nd turbo. The 1st went at 27k miles and 2nd around 70k. Both failures had nothing to do with the turbo itself, but the unison ring for the VGT veins freezing in place. I "think" the caustic diesel soot reentering the engine through the EGR causes internal corrosion.

My 1st failure was covered under warranty and the 2nd, I took it upon myself to replace it with the Garrett 6.0 "upgrade." You can find information on the alternate Garrett turbo on their website. It does not increase boost or power so it shouldn't effect reliability. It's a slightly larger ball bearing turbo. The variable geometry part is simpler with fewer veins, I suppose making it more difficult to freeze up. It's slightly louder, but not so much that anyone would really notice

BTW, I paid $1200 for it 1.5 years ago. The place I bought it from now lists it at $1600. It took me (wannabe mechanic) about 2 hours to replace with basic hand tools. The hardest part to DIY is removing and installing the 3rd pedestal bolt behind the turbo because it was a tight fit for my arm and I couldn't see what I was doing. Also, the steel band that held the exhaust down-tube on took some coaxing with a hammer to remove.

I'm holding onto my 2nd turbo because it's still good. When they fail like this, they just need to be cleaned up and re-installed. The Ford service procedure is not clean them, but replace them. International has a really simple service procedure which can be found online in PDF. The real solution would be to make the VGT components out of stainless!

the 6.0 is junk!!!!! you can baby them and you will have turbo FAILURE,egr blockage, ,vacuum pump failure a/c failure ,head gasket failure, injector failure, engine harness failure, the bang you heard was more than likely not the turbo but the discharge hose it fails with a loud bang power goes away exhaust turns black. When the vgt sticks standard ford policy replace turbo ,look on your bill you where charged for a discharge hose!!! try to trade it you will have to give it away. check for class action suit that extended the warranty filed by the EMS industry I have one rig on its 6th turbo less than 125000 miles and I bet it gets better care than most

Hi- more good news. Any idea where to look for a pending class action suit? Is there a site that would list them? thnx d/

Check on Ford Truck Enthusists site. They have a large diesel crowd could help you out.

Wow!!! They are junk and yet you still have yours after 6 turbos. Lol sounds like a closet Chevy guy bashin Ford.

Some of the Ford truck sites have made much of a cooling system design flaw. The answer seems to be an external coolant filter. Give the sites some research. Some dealers were giving some extensions on the mileage end of the warranty. This would have to be backed by Ford. Try searching for Ford 6.0 engine failures. Good luck.

Some claim the cooling issue is due to excessive casting sand left in the block during manufacturing. The sand would block the passages in the oil and EGR coolers causing excessive heat and eventual catastrophic cooler failures. This was apparently addressed in later model years.

The other issue is the coolant PH drops causing the aluminum passages to oxidize and shed rust particles. The particles abrade the cooling lines and can plug the coolers. Ford recommends checking the coolant regularly and neutralizing or replacing as needed.

The casting sand is the issue that was brought to me. The coolant filter, is actually a coolant additive package that helps to maintain the PH. The routing design of the filter did cause a good amount of the coolant to pass through it though.