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What Welder For A Beginner?

02/20/2011 12:53 AM

I'm tired of hauling my hot rod projects to the rod shop and waiting days for a little welding. What units would you recommend to a beginner, who will be welding 1/4 steel max?

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#1

Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/20/2011 1:01 AM

One that I would look at would be the Miller Maxstar 150S.

(You may get as many opinions as replies.)

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/20/2011 1:25 AM

Hi Tornado. I think the 150 is a stick welder, nes pa? Is an inert gas welder worth the extra $ and hassle?

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#4
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Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/20/2011 1:46 AM

Basically yes, but maybe gas and wire feed can be added (??). I'm more from pipe welding world, so LynLynch's approach may well be better (GA).

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#7
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Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/20/2011 11:31 AM

And, no slag to chip.

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#3

Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/20/2011 1:38 AM

For general purpose welding a MIG welder is best, and easier to use. It can weld exhaust pipes and heavier stuff, too. And they are 110V instead of 220V like most stick welders. I use a stick welder for heavy stuff, but most automotive stuff I do with a wire feed welder. My present one is a Lincoln, but brand name isn't important. You can use flux cored wire without gas, or for pretty welds, you can use a shielding gas and solid core wire.

But, it's important to know how to weld, too. Watch videos or better yet, take a class at a local college.

Practice, practice, practice.

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#10
In reply to #3

Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/21/2011 5:22 AM

GA.

But I would still recommend a 220 volt MIG/MAG one for that little bit of extra power for 1/4" plate....Ihave one and it is really good.

On the recommendation of the Haynes welding manual, I bought a gas cylinder with 75% Argon 25% CO2 and to use it for both SS and normal steel.....It also says that it needs slightly more skill to weld some other metals with only that mix, but thats all. I had absolutely no problems when learning and it was REAL fun too.

DIYers can seldom have 5 or 6 different cylinders of gas around - too expensive and no room either, the Haynes tip means I only need one cylinder.

I do recommend the Haynes manual as a good starting point as well.....

Look here:-

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D154606011&field-keywords=haynes+welding&x=11&y=16

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#17
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Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/22/2011 8:36 AM

"In my opinion" MIG is definitely the easiest way to start. I've always assumed it requires the least amount of coordination, though I'm not experienced in other methods. However make sure to avoid the cheapo entry level ones, having more power then needed makes learning to weld easier. I started with a 140A MIG which in hindsight (in my opinion) is on the threshold of too small. I think it's important to learn how much power is too much by melting your work. Then you can get a feel for just how much power is needed to get good penetration. Also make sure to use shielding gas, flux cored wire won't allow you to learn to make good welds.

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#18
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Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/22/2011 8:43 AM

"Also make sure to use shielding gas"

Sorry, but I disagree with this blanket statement. As I stated earlier, flux cored wire has it's place. And thousands of people make fine welds without shielding gas every day.

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#19
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Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/22/2011 9:14 AM

I made that statement based on my own experience. On day one with zero experience I wanted badly to make picture perfect welds. After 3 days of playing around with flux core on a Hobart Handler 140 I was able to achieve strong welds, but I didn't like the high level of splatter. Looking back much of the mess was due to my own inexperience. However, with a tank of C25 I was able to start making welds which appear the way I want.

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#5

Re: What welder for a beginner?

02/20/2011 2:40 AM

In my opinion beginner can learn thro single phase rectifier(inverter).

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#6

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

02/20/2011 10:55 AM

Cheap one for beginner could be an "inverter" welder [Stick-welder] that is if you do not weld metal thinner than say 2 millimeters. Buy at least a <200 amp model.

It is a DC welder, so you adjust or switch the cables over to get current-flow from stick to metal for thinner metal and the other way for thick metal.

Do not buy a transformer-welder although it is the cheapest.

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#8

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

02/20/2011 11:32 AM

I found MIG welding easy to learn even on thin stuff. OK you've got the hassle and expense of the gas.

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#9

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

02/21/2011 12:22 AM

SSCpal -- I've been building hot rod projects since 1958 when I bought my first welding setup, a second hand oxyacetylene rig. I bought my first arc welder, a 180 amp Sears AC "buzz box" in 1967 after I got out of the Navy, where I taught myself how to arc weld in the Navy base hobby shops. I have always had a steady hand and good hand-eye coordination; so welding a good bead came easy to me. Not everyone has that kind of talent. I finally burned out the Sears unit about 15 years ago and bought a used Lincoln 220 AC unit at a swap meet for $100. Still have and often use the gas setup, albeit with newer torches and regulators, for most any steel under 2mm thickness as well as brazing and silver soldering.

The arc welder does pretty nicely for 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" steel and occasional thicker stuff with multiple passes. I seldom run over 15 amps. The duty cycles on these cheap welders get pretty short above that range. Still have that coordination to produce decent looking welds especially if I spend time setting up and clamping the job, prepping the weld joints and calming myself down. I use 6011 electrodes for strong welds and good penetration and 6013 for pretty stuff. I don't like the results I get with 7014 "scratch" electrodes. The quality of my welds, especially for overhead and vertical improved a lot when I got a Hornbeck self darkening helmet. I don't think I'd recommend a cheap self darkening helmet like the Harbor Freight ones. It's your eyes you are risking, you know.

About 5 years ago I bought a Miller Econotig to do a roll cage. Try as I could I was not able to train myself to the level of coordination needed to control the torch with my hand, the filler rod with the other hand and the foot pedal except on the simplest horizontal welds. But the DC feature on the Miller does do very nice stick welds. I have yet to try out a MIG. I suspect the little Lincolns will do a nice job.

I still use the oxy acetylene welder for exhaust pipes and retain my old ability to produce nice strong gas welds on thin steel tubing. But I've graduated to using proper steel filler rods instead of old coat hangers and later soft iron baling wire.

BTW, one of the great advances in the quality of my welding jobs came when I bought a 4' and 4-1/2" angle grinders. Actually I bought three. The first one, a 4" Makita, burned out its motor windings after a couple of years. Then I bought two Harbor Freight 4-1/2" grinders, one for thick grinding disks and one for thin cutoff disks. They've held up better than the Makita and cost less together than the Makita.

The other thing that made life a lot easier and improved the quality of my welding projects was the purchase of a 4x6 horizontal cutoff type band saw about 20 years ago. Gives nice clean right angle cuts on flat stock, angles, and round, square or rectangular tubes. Far better and much less work than hack saws or cutting torch followed by laborious filing and/or grinding.

Also a flat 30 x 30 inch 3/8" metal welding table that can be temporarily set up outside my shop on a portable stand or sawhorses has proved very handy. The edges are straight and square enough to align pieces to be welded at true 90 degrees and thin enough so they can be clamped direct to the table top with c-clamps vise grips or whatever. I can also clamp work pieces needing heavy duty attention from the 4-1/2" angle grinders to this table top. And being outside reduces the fire hazard from flying sparks (but do cover up any nearby cars or windows)

I have a cheap little 4" vise mounted on a larger piece of 1/4" plate with countersunk flat head screws on the bottom and nuts and washers on top. This little assembly can be temporarily clamped to the welding table to hold small welding and brazing jobs and then removed to make room for larger welding assembly setups. However it is not a substitute for a heavy 5 or 6" vise mounted on a solid foundation for heavy work.

Oh yeah, one other thing. About 230 volt electricity for the 180-220 amp buzz boxes. I've usually used the electric dryer outlet in the garage or run a separate 30 or 40 amp circuit to the basement. A run of 8 gauge 3 or 4 wire indoor cable of a convenient length plus appropriate male and female plugs on each end has always worked for me as an extension cord for the welder. Try not to get in the habit of frequently tripping the circuit breaker in your main electric box. Those things do wear out and as they do they start to trip at ever lower current levels.

Ed Weldon

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#12
In reply to #9

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

02/21/2011 10:19 AM

My misprint in the 2nd paragraph: "I seldom run over 15 amps." should read 135 amps not 15. ....Ed Weldon

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#11

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

02/21/2011 7:02 AM

Have you welded any in the past? If not I would suggest going to the local high school and see if they offer any classes. Some of the school systems have started re-training classes for older (non high school aged) people who may want to learn a new skill. From this you can then determine what is best for you. If this is not available, then you might consider going to the welding supply house next to your home and see if they offer any classes. They may also, offer to help you locate someone to help you.

Good Luck

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#13

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

02/21/2011 10:46 AM

Great input, guys, thanks a bunch. I have zero experience, so I will be looking for a class, then will probably go for a Miller or Lincoln MIG, with gas and a good autodarken helmet. Get a pile of scrap and start practicing. I'm new to the area (MSP), but already have one guy offering to show me the ropes. I doubt I'll save any money, but I want the satisfaction of learning a new skill at 66 and doing my own work.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

02/21/2011 11:05 AM

Go for it. I'd find a muffler shop and ask them for some "cut-offs" (short lengths of exhaust pipe to practice on). They only need to be an inch or so long.

Shielding gas is something you'll have to work out for yourself. There are numerous combinations, but 75/25 argon/co2 is probably a good place to start. Depends what you're welding, too. I find I use as much flux core as anything because lots of my work is with rusted old junk and using gas is a waste unless you are working with new, rust-free metal.

Have fun.

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#15

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

02/21/2011 11:09 AM

Hello everybody:

SSCpal, take a look to these posts: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=278741&page=7 "WELDING EQUIPMENT??" and http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=128655 "need help selecting a welder type/model".

I hope they can be of some help for you.

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#16

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

02/21/2011 6:48 PM

If you decide on a mig welder think about an inverter welder it will give you better control for different thickness of material and most of them you can also use as a stick welder giving you more flexability. Straight Transformer type welders use tappings on the transformer with coarse and fine selector switches they always seem to be not quite right to hot or to cold when selecting the voltage for welding material.

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#20

Re: What Welder For A Beginner?

03/04/2011 8:07 AM
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Abdel Halim Galala (1); Andy Germany (1); Ed Weldon (2); ELEMAN (1); fixitorelse (1); Grochy (1); jurie sa (1); lyn (4); Pretendgineer (2); sbalasubu (1); SSCpal (2); TonyS (1); Tornado (2)

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