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What's This

03/06/2011 12:43 AM

My brother dragged me out to his truck tonight, at a family gathering.. he came across some old lump of metal and cleaned it up, and got it unseized.

it comes from a foundry in ontario (but was collected near Saskatoon on a farm)

It has a hand crank, and turns the mandrel as a drill press. It has mounting flanges on one side. it also has a pulley system on the other side. one interesting feature is the method of drill (presumably) advancment, which is by ratcheting leadscrew (top)

My brother thinks it is one of those old machines like in a ford factory, where many machines were run by belts from the shafts in the ceiling...

At any rate.. just wanted to see if anyone could say for sure what it was, and how it got used. (I'll ask him again what the text says that is on it.)

sorry for the poor pictures... it was cold (-25C) and getting dark...

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#1

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 1:01 AM

Ratchet seams to be there to make it unidirectional or hold the spindle at given location,Not very clear but also it looks like that ratchet is activated or deactivated by that eccentric cam attached with leaver.But not sure what is this?

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#2

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 1:10 AM

the ratchet part works.. but the lever that runs off the eccentric was added by my brother. (it was broken)

As you crank the main handle, the main spindle turns fast. The ratching mechanism slowly turns a leadscrew, pushing the main shaft 'downward'..

in modern drillpresses, there is rack and pinion (with 3 or 4 handles) that drives the drill into the work. there is no such arrangement on this unit. just the ratchet.

Also, the flanges might indicated that this was mounted either vertically or horizontally. It may have been a dedicated unit for shaping something... (like a horizontal drill or spindle maker)

I don't really know the final use.. or where the pulley or ratchet systems might have been more common. seems 100 years old to me.

Chris

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 1:46 AM

It may be a dedicated attachment for roller Burnishing, broaching, reaming, taping and as a last choice I would say drilling. Also it may be a motorised clamping device if lead screw pitch is low.

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#12
In reply to #5

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 12:06 PM

I think you were on the right track..

I found this pic which is the same to 9 points

in the file name.. "jason-edwards-antique-hand-drill-used-for-turning-wood-in-a-remote-homestead-australia"

and this one. and this one.

so that makes it kinda unanimous.

thank you all

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#23
In reply to #12

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:11 AM

The wheel seems to be driven by some belt? How big is this?

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#3

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 1:28 AM

The smooth-rimmed, crowned wheel is clearly for a flat-belt (probably leather) drive, as could have been from a common shaft driving many tools. From there, I can't tell.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 1:39 AM

I figured that too.. overhead or under shaft comes to mind... early factory?

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#6

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 2:04 AM

A guess - the crown wheels front and back might mean feed reversing - depending on the handle 'following'.

Is so; might be a 'tapping head'

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 11:57 AM

that would explain the apparent fixed feed rate.

thanks

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#7

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 7:19 AM

It looks like a old style post drill with the automatic feed mechanism still intact.

It was probably mounted to a wall post and belt driven from an electric motor or overhead main drive shaft system as mentioned earlier. Most likely its from a old machine shop or factory. Neat find!

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#16
In reply to #7

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 12:33 AM

tcmtech-- You got it. GA. Tomorrow I'll try to post some pics. .... Ed Weldon

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#8

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 7:31 AM

"My brother thinks it is one of those old machines like in a ford factory, where many machines were run by belts from the shafts in the ceiling..."

I would have to agree with your brother. The beveled fly wheel in image 5 is the give away.

I think your assumption of 100 years is close.

That is a nice find!

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#9

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 9:16 AM

Chris, could the flanges have been used to mount an electric motor on an adjustable plate?

Your camera has excellent shake reduction, does it keep teeth from chattering?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 11:51 AM

lol... there's no app for that yet.

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#13

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 10:32 PM

This called a post drill in these parts. I picked one up at an old farm auction a few years back, refurburshed, and hung it in my workshop, more as a conversation piece than to use. Mine does not have the crown on the flywheel and I've never heard of them being run off the old line shafts.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 10:48 PM

there is a definite curvature (crown) to the pulley thingy. As I understand it, that helps keep the flat belt centered on the pulley.

thanks

Chris

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#15

Re: What's This

03/06/2011 11:58 PM

It appears that crown wheel rotates the mandrel and the ratchet arrangement gives the linier feed. The ratchet looks as if it is operated, tooth-by-tooth, by back and forth arching the hand crank. One of the wheels looks very strange, a combination of 'spur and bevel', wonderful.

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#17

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 4:52 AM

It looks to me like a machine for twisting wires together, that is assuming the hole goes all the way through, it looks as if it could be clamped to a post to twist and tension the wire & then fix it to the post,or it could be for making spaghetti.

Bazzer

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 5:25 AM

Rotini, maybe....

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#19

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 6:57 AM

After reading all the answers so far, it is clear that no body recognized it. It is an

Alien Aztec Tortilla maker. The forgot a few here on there last trip!!!! No offense you all!

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:02 AM

HEY THAT SIG LINE IS DAMN NOISY!

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#24
In reply to #20

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:13 AM

Here-- done.

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:23 AM

Sweet

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#21

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:09 AM

G'day again Chris. boy does this bring back memories. In days of yore i used to go and visit my dad in the factory where he worked. As he was the maintenance guy he could have been anywhere, but if i heard the sound of the drill with it's distinctive feed mechanism i knew instantly he was in the workshop. His was a hand cranked version only i.e. no crowned flat for a belt. It was instead thick and round to act as a flywheel. Yours has lost it's base plate. If it is the same as the one i have it has a screw to allow the pawl to come down further and pick up an extra tooth on the feed wheel to increase the feed rate. The little handle on the feed wheel is the way to bring the drill down to the workpiece and of course to wind it out once the hole is drilled. I have used this drill myself and i can tell you it develops a strong right arm. Just imagine, you could have all your workers using one of these and save a heap in electricity.

P.S. the one i have is an Australian made. I think it's a DAWN.

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#31
In reply to #21

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 8:14 AM

it is just the wide design of the wheel that makes me think it could take a 3 or 4" belt. but flywheel works just fine.

thanks

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#22

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:10 AM

I believe it is an antique drill press and the ratched part on top was the automatic feed. We had a very similar one on the farm only a bit newer. Ours had a chuck to hold the drill bit where this one appears to use a drill with a standard size shank and the set screw to secure it. If I am correct this is a very good drill press since the feed gives a near perfect drill load for excellent cutting.

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#25
In reply to #22

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:17 AM

If I am correct this is a very good drill press since the feed gives a near perfect drill load for excellent cutting.

Not if you load up the feed rate. I have broken drills in one of these. It was too slow and of course the drill was only carbon steel.

I was only a young'un.

Jim

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#27

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:41 AM

Here is one in a collection in OZ. This is also a DAWN.

Cheers

Jim

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#34
In reply to #27

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 11:16 AM

This is a post drill more like the one I saw in Illinois many years ago--wish I would have liberated it! But the curved mounting on Chris's looks like it was for mounting on a horizontal post/pipe instead of vertical.

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#28

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:50 AM

Not wishing to cause 'discontent' - but the front crown is not explained by 'it's just a drill'.

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 8:02 AM

I am not sure what you mean by 'the front crown'. If you are refering to the bevel gear, it is the means by which the hand crank rotates the shaft.

If you mean the crown on the flywheel ( for that is what it is ) i expect that it would be for a flat belt. To do this the handle would need to be removed or the operator would risk a broken arm or skull if he were to stray too close. You can see that is just bolted on for this purpose.

I have couple of old drills that are much harder to use than this piece of high tech ( for it's time ).

Jim

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 8:06 AM

and/or see #6

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 8:49 AM

O.K. got it.

The hand crank turns the larger bevel/spur gear. The spur gear section rotates the flywheel/flat belt pulley at about twice the speed whilst the bevel gear rotates the drill shaft via a same size bevel gear.

The hand crank has a cam on it. Once in each revolution the cam lifts a lever. The lever then pushes pawl into the feed wheel on top of the machine. Under the pawl is a screw that can be wound up or down. This has the effect of making the pawl ratchet either 1, 2 or 3 teeth of the feed wheel.

Because the feed is enacted over only a portion of a revolution it cannot be used to tap a thread. The flywheel is needed here because the when the feed wheel is advanced the job of turning the wheel suddenly gets very hard. It eases off just in time for the cam to give the feed wheel another nudge. The handle can be reversed to change the position the cam operates within the revolution, by 180 deg, if the operator finds pushing easier than they can pull the handle down ( on the back of the rev )

The pitch of the feed screw is about 1/8th of an inch and each action of the pawl is 1,2 or 3 60ths of a turn ( i.e. a feed rate of 1/60th, 1/30th or 1/20th of 1/8th of an inch ). This is assuming there are 60 teeth on the feed wheel.

The feed cannot be reversed. To wind the drill up off the workpiece the pawl is flipped over and the feed wheel is wound by hand in the reverse direction.

Hope this is a little clearer

Jim

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#33

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 9:31 AM

It's a brick making machine. Cranks out 10,000 bricks a day. Total cost was $2,500.

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#35

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 12:12 PM

Yep! I'm pretty sure it is a self-feeding drill press. Here's one I saw in a barn in Los Olivos, CA almost 4 years ago. Although rusty, it was in working condition, ant it too had the ratchet feed mechanism.

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#36

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 3:12 PM

A kneuder alignment tool? Sky-Hook wench?

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#37

Re: What's This

03/07/2011 7:12 PM

I have one I inherited from my father. He always referred to it as a blacksmith's drill and it sounds like a pretty good description to me. It was mounted vertically and even has an automatic feed as does the one in your photo.

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#38

Re: What's This

03/09/2011 7:56 AM

G'day Chris,

i used this old drill for the first time tonight. It was surprisingly easy to use as the feed screw is driven by a clutch. To tighten the clutch simply wind down the top knurled nut while holding the bottom knurled nut. As the drill removes material the clutch grips and winds the feed screw down.

This one is a two man job. One to turn the handle and one to sit on the 4x2. As it has a two ratchet system allowing for small increments and the top section is able to be screwed up and down i expect it probably was also used to drill a hole in one flange of a 10 or 12" girder. The drill bit is 1 1/2" diam.

cheers and keep warm

Jim

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: What's This

03/09/2011 8:26 AM

a marvel of engineered solutions! what is the history of those systems?

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#44
In reply to #39

Re: What's This

03/25/2011 7:52 AM

G'day Chris,

Sorry it took so long for me to reply. The self feeding unit was bought at an antique fair where the stall holder knew nothing about the drill.

The large rusty unit was bought at a garage ( yard? ) sale. It was owned by a divorcee who had let it and the drum it was in fill with rainwater. ( it was just her ex's junk ). My uncle, 87 yrs old, told me how it was used. The photo shows a 4x2 on top of the drill bit with one end under my modern drill press and the other out of shot. Apparently these things were used on the railways with one person on the 4x2 and the other on the ratchet crank. It is my guess that they could be used to drill girders because the top section has 4 pairs of flats ( octagonal ) for a spanner? When turned it goes up ( or down ) so i surmise that one person could turn this to put pressure on the bit if it was inside ( between ) the flanges of a girder about 10 to 12 inches high. It has been soaking in crc for over 3 yrs and still is frozen. I will try using water soon. Soon as i think of it during the day when i have nothing else to do that is.

regards from OZ

Jim

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#45
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Re: What's This

03/25/2011 8:06 AM

thank you!

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#40
In reply to #38

Re: What's This

03/09/2011 10:34 PM

You might like to see this and read this if posting those pics drove you nuts.

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#41

Re: What's This

03/10/2011 7:04 PM

It looks just like the drill my dentist uses

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#42
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Re: What's This

03/11/2011 6:55 AM

Is it the pedal powered variety?

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#43

Re: What's This

03/25/2011 3:00 AM

x

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